Wakaba Higuchi

[mikaboo]

Congratulations to Wakaba on the silver medal. So sad that she can't go to JGPF but if it was a back injury that caused the bad SP at her first competition, I'm glad it doesn't seem to be affecting her now. Hopefully this will give her time to get back on track and to fix her flip jumps and maybe change some things about her programs. She was talking about adding the 3A in the latter half of the season before. I wonder if it's still on the agenda.

 

[Interspectator]

She's still a very strong and very young skater. There's plenty of time for her to recover, and come back strong. I hope she knows that.

--Gamba Wakaba. It's not the end by any means.

 

[solar]

Congratulations to Wakaba on the silver medal. So sad that she can't go to JGPF but if it was a back injury that caused the bad SP at her first competition, I'm glad it doesn't seem to be affecting her now. Hopefully this will give her time to get back on track and to fix her flip jumps and maybe change some things about her programs. She was talking about adding the 3A in the latter half of the season before. I wonder if it's still on the agenda.

At this point, I'd rather her focus on her PCS mark and her flip than getting a 3A. Last Junior Worlds she commented that she was about a quarter of a rotation short. I wonder if that's still the case! Eventually, I hope she can master both.

 

[Sam L]

So she didn't make the JGP final? Wish her luck for the future. Wish she had made it in.

 

[solar]

So she didn't make the JGP final? Wish her luck for the future. Wish she had made it in.

If she placed first, she would've made it. She got 2nd instead, which is still a major improvement from her placement in her first GP!

 

[mikaboo]

At this point, I'd rather her focus on her PCS mark and her flip than getting a 3A. Last Junior Worlds she commented that she was about a quarter of a rotation short. I wonder if that's still the case! Eventually, I hope she can master both.

Me too. I'd rather that she fix the flip first before going senior.

I posted the below information a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure how consistent it is though (and if we can trust Sano-san or not )

According to Minoru Sano, the head coach of Meiji Jingu Ice Rink where Wakaba trains at, Wakaba landed her first 3A about 3 weeks ago

 

[solar]

Hmm, I wonder if she did land the 3A I hope there's a video sometime soon if it's true.
It seems like there's a lot of focus on her technical mark, which has it's own merit for sure.

(Speaking of going senior, is Wakaba age-eligible for senior competitions next year? Or will she need to wait another year?)

 

[mikaboo]

Hmm, I wonder if she did land the 3A I hope there's a video sometime soon if it's true.
It seems like there's a lot of focus on her technical mark, which has it's own merit for sure.

(Speaking of going senior, is Wakaba age-eligible for senior competitions next year? Or will she need to wait another year?)

Wakaba will turn 15 on January 2nd so she'll be age eligible for senior next year. I think that's why JSF put her and Sota on the "special strengthening" list this year to get them ready. It might have put too much pressure on them though. Sota doesn't have rivals in Japan in the junior field atm, but Wakaba has so many now! I like all the girls (ok, some more than others) but JW would be less exciting without Wakaba so my fingers will be constantly crossed for her.

 

[solar]

Wakaba will turn 15 on January 2nd so she'll be age eligible for senior next year. I think that's why JSF put her and Sota on the "special strengthening" list this year to get them ready. It might have put too much pressure on them though. Sota doesn't have rivals in Japan in the junior field atm, but Wakaba has so many now! I like all the girls (ok, some more than others) but JW would be less exciting without Wakaba so my fingers will be constantly crossed for her.

So it's pretty certain that she'll go senior next year? I know some skaters stay on the junior circuit another season

 

[mikaboo]

So it's pretty certain that she'll go senior next year? I know some skaters stay on the junior circuit another season

I have no idea how it'll turn out but I think that was the plan at the beginning of the season (but it's only a guess based on the list because I heard it's pretty rare that JSF would put a junior skater on the top list).

 

[solar]

I have no idea how it'll turn out but I think that was the plan at the beginning of the season (but it's only a guess based on the list because I heard it's pretty rare that JSF would put a junior skater on the top list).

Oh yeah that's true. Honestly, the senior field competitive too, so I'm not sure what they'll do next season. It's still far away, and there's still competitions to come. I hope she can perform well!

 

[Mikansei]

So sad she didn't make the final, but I hope she can use the time to focus on the nationals or junior world. I think her problem this year is her programs. Though I quite like her FS when she performed during a skating show in summer. She has so much to offer. Hopefully she'll have some better programs next year, perhaps Tom Dickson as a choreographer would be a good choice.

 

[YesWay]

Broke my heart to see Wakaba cry like that :-/

But I think she will bounce back more determined than ever...

 

[Meoima]

I think Wakaba is pretty much underscored in the previous JGPF. She should have placed 4th there and qualified for the final. But I guess judges really dislike her programs. She needs to fix that Flip asap. But also better programs too. She has so much potential and they're wasting away her talents with programs that don't show off her abilities to the fullest.

 

[OS]

I think Wakaba is pretty much underscored in the previous JGPF. She should have placed 4th there and qualified for the final. But I guess judges really dislike her programs. She needs to fix that Flip asap. But also better programs too. She has so much potential and they're wasting away her talents with programs that don't show off her abilities to the fullest.

I pretty much agree with this. I felt they were stingey with her mark for some reason.
Fine, they were not great programs but I have seen worse score higher.

 

[solar]

I pretty much agree with this. I felt they were stingey with her mark for some reason.
Fine, they were not great programs but I have seen worse score higher.

That's true. Hopefully the scores will increase when she continues performing well.

 

[gsyzf]

That's true. Hopefully the scores will increase when she continues performing well.

I think her programs are fine. They suit her style. The judges score the performance of a skater, not how much they like a skater's program. There are worse programs that get higher scores and there are better programs that get lower scores than Wakaba's programs. There is no correlation or statistical evidence that suggests a better program receives a better score.

I think the main problem is not that judges don't like her programs, but that judges don't see her as an all-round skater, especially when she is compared to girls like Marin Honda or the Russian girls. Out of the four main skills in figure skating, i.e. jumps, spins, skating and performance/interpretation, Wakaba only satisfies two of them. She is naturally not very flexible, so she can't do spins that require great flexibility. She is not princessy and lady like, so her performance style is less appreciated by fans and judges. Do fans see her as an all-round skater? Some fans appreciate her qualities other than jumps. But there are also fans that see her only as a jumper. Why can't some fans see her as more than just a jumper?

I think the judges already decided in their mind before the competition, who the more all-round skater is. The judges score the skaters relative to each other and they are more generous to the all-round skater. Wakaba didn't even get higher GOE for her jumps than Marin.

The only way for Wakaba to score higher than the more all-round girls is to perfectly execute a program that has a much higher BV or if the more all-round skaters make major mistakes. In fact, it's not the first time that Wakaba skated well and ended up losing. It already happened at Junior world championship last season.

 

[yyyskate]

^^ which is totally not fair. Since bodytype is not the criteria to judge figure skating quality listed by ISU and flexibility only affect certain parts of figure skating such as spin position. but there is definitely ways to come around it, which Wakaba could manage to achieve all 4 levels and excellent spin quality listed by IJS.
Wakaba showed excellent quality in all PCS categories especially last season. superior to other skaters scored higher than her especially in skating skills. further she also has incredible musicality. But still lost due to low PCS.
There is a reason skating expert like Kurt Browning thought Wakaba should have been placed higher at junior worlds last season, so as many not biased skating fans.
It seems like Judges are sending the message that Wakaba is only a jumper, stereotyped her into that category even before a performance started, which is completely unfounded and absurd.
My wish is that her team please do not think the same way since she got low PCS and think that the only way for her to to competitive is to have extremely high bv.
Which seems is what her team is going for. 3lz-3lo, 3lz-3T in the second half. the most difficult 7 triple program. Also training 3A in just one summer. These difficulty training will definitely take its toll on her young body and other aspects of her skating. especially, Wakaba is a powerful jumper not a fast spinner type jumper. All I wish is that her team could have a long-term plan for Wakaba and develop her skating in all directions with patience.
I think Wakaba's programs are nice this season. she did not performed as perfectly as last season that's all. elements arrangement maybe a little too ambitious. But Wakaba's incredible innate musicality still showed throughout these 2 programs. She is a rare talent!

As for the traditional opinion that , slimmer body type skater will appear more artistic. I will only agree iif they are equal in all other aspects of figure skating or related performing art. Which is not the case when she lost on her PCS last season. And slimmer body type should NOT be ranked as the highest criteria in judging fg PCS at all.

 

[Meoima]

I think her programs are fine. They suit her style. The judges score the performance of a skater, not how much they like a skater's program. There are worse programs that get higher scores and there are better programs that get lower scores than Wakaba's programs. There is no correlation or statistical evidence that suggests a better program receives a better score.

I think the main problem is not that judges don't like her programs, but that judges don't see her as an all-round skater, especially when she is compared to girls like Marin Honda or the Russian girls. Out of the four main skills in figure skating, i.e. jumps, spins, skating and performance/interpretation, Wakaba only satisfies two of them. She is naturally not very flexible, so she can't do spins that require great flexibility. She is not princessy and lady like, so her performance style is less appreciated by fans and judges. Do fans see her as an all-round skater? Some fans appreciate her qualities other than jumps. But there are also fans that see her only as a jumper. Why can't some fans see her as more than just a jumper?

I think the judges already decided in their mind before the competition, who the more all-round skater is. The judges score the skaters relative to each other and they are more generous to the all-round skater. Wakaba didn't even get higher GOE for her jumps than Marin.

The only way for Wakaba to score higher than the more all-round girls is to perfectly execute a program that has a much higher BV or if the more all-round skaters make major mistakes. In fact, it's not the first time that Wakaba skated well and ended up losing. It already happened at Junior world championship last season.

The girl who judges put before Wakaba in the previous event, Diana, was she any better than Wakaba when it comes to "all-rounded skills"? I appreciate Diana for her efforts, but I don't think people can say that she has better SS, better jumps... than Wakaba at all. In fact, Wakaba did not make too many mistakes in both of her JGPF that should make her out of JGPF. She is kind of consistent given her difficult layouts. She did not fall and she has 2 massive 3-3 in her LP yet her PCS remains the same.

Looking at the levels she didn't even lose much. Just the GOE for her is too low. She couldn't win at her last outing because of he mistakes, but I don't think the 5th place at her previous event was rightful.

I don't think they dislike her body type that much, I think they treat her the same in PCS compare to last season, and they didn't reward her anything for her ambitious layout and the effort of putting difficult combos in her programs. So more difficult jumps might not be the key for higher PCS in her case.

I think they simply don't like her programs. And that her Flip keeps getting E calls does not help her either.

 

[gsyzf]

The girl who judges put before Wakaba in the previous event, Diana, was she any better than Wakaba when it comes to "all-rounded skills"? I appreciate Diana for her efforts, but I don't think people can say that she has better SS, better jumps... than Wakaba at all. In fact, Wakaba did not make too many mistakes in both of her JGPF that should make her out of JGPF. She is kind of consistent given her difficult layouts. She did not fall and she has 2 massive 3-3 in her LP yet her PCS remains the same.

The all-round Russian girls I was referring to are top Russian junior girls like Polina and Maria, not Diana. Diana is obviously not as skilled as Wakaba, hence she does not get as high GOE and PCS as Wakaba. Diana’s LP PCS in the last two JGP are about the same, 48 points. Wakaba got 49 and 53 in her two JGP. Wakaba skated in the second last group and Diana skated in the last group. Her LP score in the first JGP was held down due to the skate order. Even with the held down scores, Wakaba’s PCS was higher than Diana’s. (Well, Diana skated poorly. So it’s not a fair comparison.) Wakaba’s GOEs are also higher than Diana’s GOEs in the SP and LP of the last two JGP (except the SP of the first JGP). The only surprise I see is that Diana’s SP PCS jumped from 24.5 to over 26 in the second JGP (higher than Wakaba’s PCS). My guess is that she was the only one that had a clean SP, so she got a little boost.

It’s true that Wakaba’s PCS this season is about the same as last season. But she did not skate any clean SP and LP this season and she received the same PCS as last season. This means if she skates clean, her PCS will be higher. So the increase in difficulty is rewarded in the PCS. She has two 3-3 in her LP this season. She had a 3-3 and 2-3 last season. Her program this season is more difficult, but I don’t think the increase in difficulty is very big, so I don’t think it will be a significant increase in PCS, maybe 1 point.

Looking at the levels she didn't even lose much. Just the GOE for her is too low. She couldn't win at her last outing because of the mistakes, but I don't think the 5th place at her previous event was rightful.

Her LP score was held down because she skated in an earlier group.

I don't think they dislike her body type that much, I think they treat her the same in PCS compare to last season, and they didn't reward her anything for her ambitious layout and the effort of putting difficult combos in her programs. So more difficult jumps might not be the key for higher PCS in her case. I think they simply don't like her programs. And that her Flip keeps getting E calls does not help her either.

Most people do not differentiate between programs and performances. For most people, if they like a skater’s performance style, they like any programs that person skate to, even if the choreography is very similar. How much can program choreography change each year given that the layout of the program and the skill set of the skater do not change significantly each year? The most significant change of a program is often the music.

If judges indeed dislike all of Wakaba’s programs, then it’s not her programs they don’t like, it’s her style they don’t like.

A natural princess receives 100% love from fans and judges. But Wakaba is more like a warrior, so she doesn’t receive 100% love from the fans, maybe only 50%. (You can see that even from the fans’ reaction in this forum.) I don’t know about judges. I don't think all judges see her only as a jumper. But even if only 2 or 3 of the 9 judges see her only as a jumper, that would significantly lower the average GOE and PCS she receives.