I don't agree that she should have placed 4th at her 1st event but even if she would have been she still would not have made it to the JGPF. She would have beaten Sakamoto though and become the 1st Substitute. Obviously this is only my opinion but there is no way she would have deserved to be in the JGP final this season. I did like her last season but not this season.
Wakaba Higuchi
- Thread starter gsk8
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I don't agree that she should have placed 4th at her 1st event but even if she would have been she still would not have made it to the JGPF. She would have beaten Sakamoto though and become the 1st Substitute. Obviously this is only my opinion but there is no way she would have deserved to be in the JGP final this season. I did like her last season but not this season.
I am pretty sure that one can find "unbiased expert" somewhere every time when a skater lose a medal placement by less than a point.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
With hardest layout why she doesn't deserve it? It's not like she fell all over the place, did she? She had 2 hardest combos and it's still not enough? Her jumping quality is the best among Japanese juniors. Her SS is excellent for her age. The biggest flaw of her is that she has the talents but she and her team chose the wrong strategy. She and her team have done nothing to change judges' perception of her as "just a jumper", thus resulting in her poor PCS (and even GOE compare to other ladies).
Among all Japanese junior, Wakaba has the biggest potential, she is a powerhouse jumper, even her flip get wrong edge it still has great quality. Her edge is amazing, it is undeniable. People can dislike her programs, her style but there is a fact that those talents are not going away. None of the Japanese ladies who got into JGPF (or the 1st substitute) this time have more chance to survive puberty more than Wakaba whose jumps are much bigger than them, to be frankly, none of them has as good SS/jumps as her IMO.
Of course base on potential alone, Wakaba is the best. However, in my opinion her team is doing a bad job of presenting her. None of her programs show off her amazing SS and speed. And the constructions of the programs are very very unwise, given that she could have scored much better with a lesser layout. Moving all the jumps in the second half of the SP, then putting the 3lz3T in the second half... all these moves were wrong in the first place. It's good to have risk taker in the system but with ladies judges are not that generous to risk taker like they are to the men.
In short, Wakaba team should do something, change the layout, change the constructions, improve her spin and her flip... do anything so the judges will not see her as just a jumper.
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- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
Oh Meoima, you know what I will say! Among the juniors and even in comparison with the seniors, Wakaba has the strongest bladework. Her SS should really be in the high 7s range although the TR is fairly scored in the high 6s. Where Wakaba is disadvantaged is in the subjective PE, IN and CR as her power and speed is not the sort which is mainstream lady FS. Despite her edge depth and speed, she does come across as a powerful speed truck and the flow across the ice may not be perceived as beautifully, which may explain why judges give her lower SS unconsciously? If she is male, I bet she would be getting much higher PCS components in even the more subjective areas. Her situation reminds me somewhat of Midori Ito and Irina Slutskaya who tend to get low presentation marks as their energetic skating and power does not find as much favour as their softer and more feminine rivals like Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan. No matter how you try, I doubt you can turn Wakaba and Ito into soft, lyrical female skaters. Even though Ito and Slutskaya eventually got their presentation score boost, it was primarily via big personality and cheerful exuberance, not so much artistry. I do not think Wakaba is that sort. She just needs strong and powerful programs that showcase her SS and skate clean with confidence and oomph. It is tough but thats how things are since she can't be packaged out like a Mao, Caro or Yuna.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
I totally agree with you Globetrotter. I also don't think that Wakaba can be turned into like Mao or Caro or Yuna. But even with that her current programs (and strategy) don't do her talents justice. I mean look at her edge, that's super for her age, better than any other girl same age, look at her jumps, so strong! Then look at her GOE for jumps and steps, and her score for SS (except the spin, I agree her spin is weak) it's kind of disappointing.
She can't become a princess, and I don't hope to see her become that way, but there can be much better programs and choreography/package... which will suit her better and make her strong points stand out.
For now I think her team doesn't know what to do. But hopefully this defeat will help them to figure out something, to game the system in a better way like Eteri is doing for her students.
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the point is that there is not just a couple of "unbiased expert" in Wakaba's case at last junior world. The opinions that Wakaba should have placed higher is plenty, from many people who are not necessary her fans (especially when Wakaba was a newbie at the time), and even on TV. There is a reason for that, Like I said, Wakaba is a rare talent, which showed in her skating and people saw that.
I don't think Wakaba's style is similar to Mao or Yuna (different body type), but this performance reminded me a lot of Michelle Kwan (or even Yuna, if you ignore the fact that Wakaba is faster and less willowy). This one has the spark and intricacy of Akiko's programs.
Caro, ironically enough, wasn't recognized as an artist until fairly late in her career. Up until 2010-11, the forum were full of constant moaning about "that sloppy skater" who constantly gets overscored "just because she skates fast".
gsyzf said:
In my experience, programs do matter. And, of course, if the skater has musicality and skills, they can skate programs completely different in style, and still skate them well. Compare Mao's Nocturne, Caprice and Madame Butterfly, or Akiko's Die Fledermaus, Kill Bill and O, or Michelle's Rachmaninov, Romanza and Lyra Angelica, or Yukari's Cappricio Espagnol and Giselle, (etc., etc.).
However, it's not enough for the program to be good, it has to fit the skater's current abilities (and those can be influenced by growth sports, injuries, etc.).
Mao's programs back in 2006-07 can be an example. When the music was announced for the first time, a lot of fans thought that Czardas will fit bubbly Mao to a T, but that Nocturne might turn out to be boring. However, Mao had a huge growth spurt in the off-season, and it affected her skating skills. And it turned out that calm, steady Nocturne was actually a perfect vehicle to highlight her strenghts and hide weakesses, but Czardas (which initially had very bubbly choreo and a lot of hops, claps and toe-work) looked rather horrible in the first outings (Campbells and SA). NHK was her first clean performance of that program, at the cost of removing some fun parts of the choreo and concentrating on the jumps. (The LP was re-choreographed with Lori's help before Worlds, but even then Mao wasn't quite happy with her performance and even thought of keeping it for one more year to give it justice).
I think Wakaba is in a similar situation as Mao was early in that season. Her programs were choreographed to make the best of her abilities at that time, and in the summer shows she could handle them. The problems started after her (reported) back pains and withdrawal from AT. She mostly recovered her jums, but like Mao at NHK 06, she is not yet comfortable enough with them to fully commit herself to choreography.
IMHO the SP is the biggest problem - Mambo should be fun and effervescent, but she's obviously saving all of her energy for the jumps in the second hals, and it spoils the impression of the program. IMHO, it would be good if she changed her SP to Somewhere Only We Know, and jump layout to 2A, 3Lz-3T, 3F in the 2nd half. (But, of course, her team knows the best the place she is right now.
)Wakaba's SS >> Maria, Musicality == Marin. dance position not the best (again partly due to her body type), her innate ability to perform: top notch among juniors.
Her new programs completely new lay-out from last year in terms of elements arrangement and new transitions.
I hope she can further improve her movement/dance details in future. Her performance absolutely improved just comparing second outing from her first.
I am not concerned that Wakaba didn't make it to the final this year. Or is it fair or not. I am aware that Wakaba was not in a very good condition during practice according to Ted. But throughout her 2 outings during jgp, I think this girl is formidable (She had the reputation to defend this time, she had the biggest dream this time, also extremely risky element this time, and she also knew her dream is on the line, still delivered, did not crumble). I think I became a fan now. last year, I was just impressed by her raw talent.
Therefore, I wish her team trains her with patience, develop in all aspects of fg, avoid injury(please). think about how to come around her body type issue. Maybe try some typical lady's program style for a chance, her last year EX was lyrical and beautiful. (I think there is another Japanese junior girl this year, she also changed her style into a relatively traditional lyrical lady's program for further artistic pursuit. and actually quite impressive)
Another thing I like about her is that, Wakaba shows her emotion at K&C and (podium
), from last year to this year. Everything is on her face. I Like
Wakababy
:
ps: saw some discussion about Wakababy's cry on podium, my opinion is that, she really tried hard to hold back her emotion and smile but just cannot. The more she wanna composure herself, the more she cannot, thus cried like a baby again for the whole ceremony. It is understandable for me, actually I think it is cute her cry and her friendly interaction with Marin.
Her new programs completely new lay-out from last year in terms of elements arrangement and new transitions.
I hope she can further improve her movement/dance details in future. Her performance absolutely improved just comparing second outing from her first.
I am not concerned that Wakaba didn't make it to the final this year. Or is it fair or not. I am aware that Wakaba was not in a very good condition during practice according to Ted. But throughout her 2 outings during jgp, I think this girl is formidable (She had the reputation to defend this time, she had the biggest dream this time, also extremely risky element this time, and she also knew her dream is on the line, still delivered, did not crumble). I think I became a fan now. last year, I was just impressed by her raw talent.
Therefore, I wish her team trains her with patience, develop in all aspects of fg, avoid injury(please). think about how to come around her body type issue. Maybe try some typical lady's program style for a chance, her last year EX was lyrical and beautiful. (I think there is another Japanese junior girl this year, she also changed her style into a relatively traditional lyrical lady's program for further artistic pursuit. and actually quite impressive)
Another thing I like about her is that, Wakaba shows her emotion at K&C and (podium
), from last year to this year. Everything is on her face. I LikeWakababy
:ps: saw some discussion about Wakababy's cry on podium, my opinion is that, she really tried hard to hold back her emotion and smile but just cannot. The more she wanna composure herself, the more she cannot, thus cried like a baby again for the whole ceremony. It is understandable for me, actually I think it is cute her cry and her friendly interaction with Marin.
I don't see an issue with Wakaba crying - she was disappointed that she couldn't make the final despite her best efforts. She's a young girl and they can get emotional. She is an emotional type and has cried before when she doesn't do her best.
I like her spirit and her jumps and she's cute as a button. I think she'll get where she needs to be, again she's only 14.
I like her spirit and her jumps and she's cute as a button. I think she'll get where she needs to be, again she's only 14.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2014
A video of Wakaba's 3Lz-3T from today.
And I think it's her mom at the beginning of the video.
Good luck to her tomorrow!
A glimpse of baby Mao and baby Yuzuru at the end of the video because I think they were talking about raising kids on today's show because it was 11/22 (ii fuufu) today, meaning "good husband-wife day"
ETA: Another video of Wakaba from 1:00
And I think it's her mom at the beginning of the video.
Good luck to her tomorrow!
A glimpse of baby Mao and baby Yuzuru at the end of the video because I think they were talking about raising kids on today's show because it was 11/22 (ii fuufu) today, meaning "good husband-wife day"
ETA: Another video of Wakaba from 1:00
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- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
It seems that Wakaba had some terrific skate at the Junior Nationals SP today66.83 is a huge score.
Hope she'll have another thrilling performance tomorrow. Can't wait see a video but here's Wakaba punching the air :hap85:
That's a great score! I read some reports saying that her back pain has been cured for the most part.
Congrats to Wakaba for defending the title and winning Junior Nationals once again. 
She didn't do 3Lz-3Lo in her FS, but did 2 3Lz-3T instead. I hope she spends some time working on the PCS part a bit before senior nationals and worlds. Especially since she will be up against Mao, Rika and Satoko there. Would be hard to podium this time i think.
I seriously hope she will get some better programs next year, something similar to her EX Somewhere only we know would be good. I think Tom Dickson or David Wilson as a choreographer could fit her. Hope there will be some videoes of her SP and FS soon.
She didn't do 3Lz-3Lo in her FS, but did 2 3Lz-3T instead. I hope she spends some time working on the PCS part a bit before senior nationals and worlds. Especially since she will be up against Mao, Rika and Satoko there. Would be hard to podium this time i think. I seriously hope she will get some better programs next year, something similar to her EX Somewhere only we know would be good. I think Tom Dickson or David Wilson as a choreographer could fit her. Hope there will be some videoes of her SP and FS soon.
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
Here's the video of FS! I think her spins really improved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2NgI8PtCSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2NgI8PtCSo
