What exactly counts as heel slippage?

[Query]

When Klingbeil existed, a Klingbeil factory rep told me fixing the length of the blade by the length of the outsole only made sense on full custom boots - because the length of the outsole could be set to be the same as the length of the foot (perhaps the radially projected length of the foot? - which might depend on factors like heel height, and other things). In other words, perhaps you want the front and back of the blade to match the front and back of your foot in some way. For example, if the toes don't touch or come close to the front of your boot, maybe full length is for most people too long.

But I think the ideal length of blade, and the exact mounting position, is to some extent a matter of personal anatomy and personal taste.

It is also possible the optimal blade, length, and position depends on what type of skating you are doing. E.g., ice dance uses the toe pick less than freestyle. And it certainly might depend on your individual flexibility.

Ordering two pairs of blades of different sizes gives you more options. But of course it increased your costs.

With all-leather boots, if you heat mold and punch, one would heat mold first, because heat molding mostly undoes punching. But I'm not sure if that is true if you have a thermoplastic stiffening layer. Maybe it even depends on the specific thermoplastic.

In particular, I don't know if there are any boots with shape-memory-polymers, that return to their original shape when heated. That might be a wonderful thing in some ways, because it would give you the opportunity to reshape the boot as it wears and breaks in, and it would be great for buying used boots - but such plastics are probably more expensive, or might be inferior in other ways. tstop4me, are there any boots with such plastics?

 

[RineX]

Ordering two pairs of blades of different sizes gives you more options. But of course it increased your costs.

Oh, just to clarify I haven't ordered/paid for it. Since it's standard stock the store is happy to get it in and I can just decide once they're both in store.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Oh, just to clarify I haven't ordered/paid for it. Since it's standard stock the store is happy to get it in and I can just decide once they're both in store.

Good b/c that's the way you are supposed to do it. Any fitter/store that wants to make you pay for two pairs of blades so you can decide on one is a store I would run from.

 

[Query]

Oh! That is good. I completely misunderstood you, and thought you had splurged to get both pairs. It's good that your pro shop deals in enough figure skate volume that they can afford to do what you say.

Some people who have multiple pairs of boots and/or blades for different skating disciplines... To some extent I do too, even though I'm not a great skater.

 

[wetreatfeet]

Hi all, for a well-fitting skate, how much space above the toes is acceptable vs too much? And is a tiny fraction of heel movement doing little test hops (on land) ok as long as the heel goes nice and securely back with some knee bend?

For context, I'm trying to decide between Risport RF3 Pros and Royal Pros. I had tried the Royal Pros in store (240, they didn't have the RF3s in that size) and they felt good but maybe a bit of pressure across the top of the toes of the right foot, I also felt that maybe the ankle didn't feel very secure though the heel felt reasonably secure. I ordered the RF3 Pros in the same size from Skaters Edge NZ with whom I had done a virtual fitting and they had recommended RF3 Pros for better heel/ankle security (and said the little toe area could be heat molded/punched out, based on my feedback on RF3s 1 size up (245) squashing my little toes) The RF3s Pros in 245 had too much volume over the toes but I was hoping that one size down would fix that problem. The RF3 Pros in 240 arrived today and I feel like there may still be slightly too much space above the toes, especially on my left foot? I can wriggle it up/down a reasonable amount, though my little toes on both feet are quite squashed (the Royal Pros were far more comfortable in that regard). It's hard to tell just walking without a blade, but I worry that when skating I may feel like 'gripping' with my toes if there is too much space above? What does everyone think?

Also, I felt that the heel lock of the RF3 was similar to the Royal Pro and surprisingly the ankle was maybe only a little bit more secure. Though it's hard to go off memory since I don't have the Royal Pros with me for direct comparison, and it can vary with lacing tightness, etc. Given that, I'm wondering if it would make more sense to return the RF3s and get the Royal Pros instead? I suppose the risk of that would be if there is a difference in heel lock and after breaking in the Royal Pro doesn't hold the heel or ankle as well or if the volume ends up too low and doesn't expand with breaking in? There will be quite a bit in shipping and restocking fees if I return the RF3s, so just want to be as sure as possible if I do that!

I also have a general question about heel slippage, if the heel only moves a fraction when doing little test jumps (on land, no blades mounted) and then goes back securely with knee bend, is that about as secure as a heel can get? Or are we expecting absolutely zero movement? The virtual fitter said that the heel lock will be the tightest when the boot is new so it needs to be extremely secure to begin with but I'm not sure what actually counts as heel slippage.

(For more context, the store I tried the Risport at didn't have a very experienced fitter so hard to just go by their advice, in fact they only did length measurements and fit me into 245s at first. The virtual fitter recommended 240 and I went back and asked to try it on and found the 240 length did seem better, especially if it would expand while breaking in. The virtual fitter also recommended going down to B from C width (the store stocks C as standard so I was only able to try C on), but I already felt it was very snug so wasn't game enough to try too small and hope it widens with breaking in.)

Thanks in advance!

ETA minor wording correction as my original wording made it sound like the heel moved more than the tiny amount it did with the test hops

 

[RineX]

Oh! That is good. I completely misunderstood you, and thought you had splurged to get both pairs. It's good that your pro shop deals in enough figure skate volume that they can afford to do what you say.

Some people who have multiple pairs of boots and/or blades for different skating disciplines... To some extent I do too, even though I'm not a great skater.

Oh I think having multiple skates would just confuse things and make me much worse as I'm trying to learn. I returned the RF3s and am keeping the Royal Pros in 240. I also got 9 inch Coronation Ace blades today (because the 9.25 inch blade was a bit of a tight fit on one boot with possibly the risk for tiiiny amount of overhang. Hope I don't find the blade too short and unstable though!) Hopefully I can get them mounted soon and they work out for me! (My coach advised me to get another coach to mount them rather than the skate store so have to wait to pass them to him etc)

 

[wetreatfeet]

Hi all, for a well-fitting skate, how much space above the toes is acceptable vs too much? And is a tiny fraction of heel movement doing little test hops (on land) ok as long as the heel goes nice and securely back with some knee bend?

For context, I'm trying to decide between Risport RF3 Pros and Royal Pros. I had tried the Royal Pros in store (240, they didn't have the RF3s in that size) and they felt good but maybe a bit of pressure across the top of the toes of the right foot, I also felt that maybe the ankle didn't feel very secure though the heel felt reasonably secure. I ordered the RF3 Pros in the same size from Skaters Edge NZ with whom I had done a virtual fitting and they had recommended RF3 Pros for better heel/ankle security (and said the little toe area could be heat molded/punched out, based on my feedback on RF3s 1 size up (245) squashing my little toes) The RF3s Pros in 245 had too much volume over the toes but I was hoping that one size down would fix that problem. The RF3 Pros in 240 arrived today and I feel like there may still be slightly too much space above the toes, especially on my left foot? I can wriggle it up/down a reasonable amount, though my little toes on both feet are quite squashed (the Royal Pros were far more comfortable in that regard). It's hard to tell just walking without a blade, but I worry that when skating I may feel like 'gripping' with my toes if there is too much space above? What does everyone think?

Also, I felt that the heel lock of the RF3 was similar to the Royal Pro and surprisingly the ankle was maybe only a little bit more secure. Though it's hard to go off memory since I don't have the Royal Pros with me for direct comparison, and it can vary with lacing tightness, etc. Given that, I'm wondering if it would make more sense to return the RF3s and get the Royal Pros instead? I suppose the risk of that would be if there is a difference in heel lock and after breaking in the Royal Pro doesn't hold the heel or ankle as well or if the volume ends up too low and doesn't expand with breaking in? There will be quite a bit in shipping and restocking fees if I return the RF3s, so just want to be as sure as possible if I do that!

I also have a general question about heel slippage, if the heel only moves a fraction when doing little test jumps (on land, no blades mounted) and then goes back securely with knee bend, is that about as secure as a heel can get? Or are we expecting absolutely zero movement? The virtual fitter said that the heel lock will be the tightest when the boot is new so it needs to be extremely secure to begin with but I'm not sure what actually counts as heel slippage.

(For more context, the store I tried the Risport at didn't have a very experienced fitter so hard to just go by their advice, in fact they only did length measurements and fit me into 245s at first. The virtual fitter recommended 240 and I went back and asked to try it on and found the 240 length did seem better, especially if it would expand while breaking in. The virtual fitter also recommended going down to B from C width (the store stocks C as standard so I was only able to try C on), but I already felt it was very snug so wasn't game enough to try too small and hope it widens with breaking in.)

Thanks in advance!

ETA minor wording correction as my original wording made it sound like the heel moved more than the tiny amount it did with the test hops

Heel slippage is when your heel lifts out of the shoe while walking or climbing. A slight lift is normal, but excessive movement can cause discomfort or blisters.

 

[tstop4me]

Heel slippage is when your heel lifts out of the shoe while walking or climbing. A slight lift is normal, but excessive movement can cause discomfort or blisters.

We are discussing figure skating boots specifically.