What rule changes would you like to see next season? | Page 10 | Golden Skate

What rule changes would you like to see next season?

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
I agree with Jontor, ladyjane and others who miss those creative, difficult and entertaining step sequences so many skaters once did. Adding some type of choreographic step sequence to the free skate in singles would be ideal.

If that is not feasible, then I would wish for a second choreographic sequence. Split jumps, Ina Bauers and the like add some important variety to any program, especially for many of those casual fans we want to keep.

Either way, this new element could replace 1 jumping pass. The growth of quads is terrific, but I think the sheer number of jumps in free skates tends to crowd out other vital aspects of the sport.

Having 6 jumping passes, with 2-3 involving combinations, leaves plenty of room for 5 quads and a triple axel. Remove any rules governing repeats, and require only that a skater attempt each jump type at least once. Maybe we also could tweak the system to discourage eulers, which years later still look like a pop to me, and reward those gorgeous combinations that end with a triple loop.

It sounds like performing a fast, centered spin is more difficult than adding features. Perhaps the difference in base value between the levels should be reduced to prioritize GOE, in addition to raising the point value for spins overall.
Eulers are so ugly 85% of the time! It should receive negative GOE when executed so poorly.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Thank you for the explanation :) It makes more sense now.

I still think it's sexist and need to evolve, though ; granted women scoring above 80 is a recent phenomenon (what do you consider recent, btw ? I feel like Medvedeva was already scoring above 80 in TES, and that was before the previous Olys ; maybe I remember wrong though), but that's what rule changes is all about - taking into account the recent evolutions of the situation and adapt the rules accordingly :)

And this idea that the women needed their PCS capped at 80% because nobody imagined them capable of jumping multiple ultra-Cs successfully, honestly it just reeks of a glass ceiling situation and insidious sexism to me. You can disagree of course, that's only my perspective, but I'll stand by it ☺️
I actually would prefer men to have the same PCS scoring as women, so capping it at 0.8 for SP and 1.6 for FS.

Also PCS being reduced to 3 categories instead of 5.
I think sometimes PCS impact scores in men way too much. PCS is too subjective, way more subjective than GOEs, and this is a sport afterall. If it is a sport, technical difficulty is what should be the priority and impact scores more.
 

Seven Sisters

Medalist
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
I’d like to return to having ice dancers skate the entire pattern during the RD. The current system of requiring only a small section of pattern is not a success IMHO.

The results were especially bad during the Finnstep season(s), where the ISU cut out the best part of the pattern (again, IMHO), and the cuts resulted in many, many Finnstep RDs that completely missed what the dance was about.
 
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el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I think PCS is not given nearly enough weight, so I am OK with the women having men's PCS. As long as we can eliminate the "quad bonus" for PCS.

I would have the same restrictions on jumps for men that there are for women, in which I am a majority of one:laugh:. For me, jumps no more make it an "objective sport" than school figures did, very old fashioned and anti-modern to put so much emphasis on revolutions in the air. :)
 

litenkyckling

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
In Ice Dance there are many things I would like to see change:
  • Bigger points differences between levels. Teams need to be incentivised to actually hit their levels, because just now I totally get why they focus more on getting high GOE over a level 4 step sequence. We have yet to see a single L4 step sequence this season, which is frankly ridiculous considering the talent.
  • Factored GOE. You should not be able to get +5 for an element that isn't a level 4 because that literally makes no sense and increases the likelihood of corrupt and unfair judging.
  • Less choreo elements. I don't hate these, but the weight they have makes no sense. Plus, GOE is handed out here and often lower ranked teams have really creative elements and get little reward, yet higher ranked teams do easy and boring choreo elements and get +5?? These definitely need properly factored GOE. Allow 2 in a FD as a maximum.
  • Bring back the 2nd step sequence. If they love the one foot so much, add it into the RD. I would also like more difficult turns and a requirement for proper dance holds and no open skating allowed in at least one of the step sequences. Holding hands and skating is not a real hold guys.
  • No repeat lifts across programmes. If you've used it in the RD you can't have in the FD. Lifts are scored too easily as it is, in my opinion.
  • Maybe restructure the RD. I don't hate it, don't love it either. Kind of hate the themes as the ISU's idea of a theme is rubbish. I personally prefer entire pattern dances, but I kind of get why they don't use them now. I think I'd basically just make the RD a little more like the OD content wise, the 5 elements just now feel a bit cut and paste from year to year. Oh and make the No Touch step sequence a true no touch one again.
And across disciplines
  • Not a rule change but I hope they bring in Junior 4CC and Euros.
  • A new computer system in place where you have to press buttons for each reason why a PCS/GOE point should be given. (In fairness, this may be how it already works but I'm not sure). Like the list of reasons why someone deserves a +5 that the ISU provide in document form on their website, but on a screen and judges MUST justify every point they give. The computer system will caculate the GOE/PCS on the reasons that the judges have selected. So, they wouldn't be able to just keep pressing +5 without even looking up at the skating happening in front of them. At every competition and in every discipline, one judge at random will be chosen at the end and they must go through their scoring sheet and explain why they did what they did, like an audit I suppose.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
  • Not a rule change but I hope they bring in Junior 4CC and Euros.
In addition to JR WORLDS, or replacing JW? If in addition, I don't know where two new major junior competitions could be placed in the current schedule. If you expand senior 4CC/Euros to include the junior version, that would require another 3-4 days tacked onto the existing schedules for those events. Not doable in an Olympic year.
 

litenkyckling

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
In addition to JR WORLDS, or replacing JW? If in addition, I don't know where two new major junior competitions could be placed in the current schedule. If you expand senior 4CC/Euros to include the junior version, that would require another 3-4 days tacked onto the existing schedules for those events. Not doable in an Olympic year.
in addition. I'm not sure how it would be fit in, but the ISU do have it on the schedule to discuss.
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
More deductions for costume violation. Some skaters clearly show too much.
 

Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
Bigger points differences between levels. Teams need to be incentivised to actually hit their levels, because just now I totally get why they focus more on getting high GOE over a level 4 step sequence. We have yet to see a single L4 step sequence this season, which is frankly ridiculous considering the talent.
Yes, I'm confused - teams that clearly have been capable of higher levels in the past aren't hitting them now. I'm not sure if this is an intentional strategy or just a lack of preparedness?

I love the one-foot sequences but barely anyone gets a 4 nowadays. Also I miss seeing the versions where both skaters do complementary (not identical) turns, like this: https://youtu.be/NmCZ4tUUKxc?t=58 (and it's not as though they had to sacrifice GOE for this)
 

streams4dreams

On the Ice
Joined
May 9, 2021
A new computer system in place where you have to press buttons for each reason why a PCS/GOE point should be given. (In fairness, this may be how it already works but I'm not sure). Like the list of reasons why someone deserves a +5 that the ISU provide in document form on their website, but on a screen and judges MUST justify every point they give. The computer system will caculate the GOE/PCS on the reasons that the judges have selected. So, they wouldn't be able to just keep pressing +5 without even looking up at the skating happening in front of them. At every competition and in every discipline, one judge at random will be chosen at the end and they must go through their scoring sheet and explain why they did what they did, like an audit I suppose.
I really like this suggestion! Not only would it be great for transparency and accountability in scoring, but also serve as direct feedback to the skaters. For some reason, I got reminded of rating a Lyft ride with "Clean car", "Good driving", "Great conversation", and so on, suggesting a cross-discipline appeal for this approach :biggrin:
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Hoping the ISU does not allow quads in the Women Short Programs, seeing how the injuries are piling up in the Tutberidze camp. Both Trusova and Usacheva withdrew from their 2nd GP events with some pretty serious injuries---and that's with no quads in the SP.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
Hoping the ISU does not allow quads in the Women Short Programs, seeing how the injuries are piling up in the Tutberidze camp. Both Trusova and Usacheva withdrew from their 2nd GP events with some pretty serious injuries---and that's with no quads in the SP.
I think it is really weird they haven't done any safety studies. Per Jimmie Santee, the ISU did some sort of safety study on quad twist/throw in pairs and came to the astonishing conclusion that if the skaters did it well it wasn't so dangerous but if they did it poorly it was more dangerous. That resulted in the devaluing of the quad twist/throw to where no one does them anymore. This is all well and good until they're all having hip replacements at 25.
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Do people really believe that a separate PCS panel would make a difference? I am afraid PCS would be scored exactly the way it is now: judged by tech content, by a skater's name and by federation the skater belongs to.
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I would like to see something like the Zayak rule with ladies figure skating and limit the number of quads that can be in any program. All we're getting is little jumping beans and the beauty of figure skating is going by the wayside. And no quad in the short program.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
I’d like to return to having ice dancers skate the entire pattern during the RD. The current system of requiring only a small section of pattern is not a success IMHO.

The results were especially bad during the Finnstep season(s), where the ISU cut out the best part of the pattern (again, IMHO), and the cuts resulted in many, many Finnstep RDs that completely missed what the dance was about.
Count me as another who loves the pattern steps. Often they are the most interesting steps we get to see the ice dancers do, in either program, since so much emphasis is put on the twizzles and the lifts. Come on people, make the steps a highlight!

Also, in both spins in individual and lifts in pairs, eliminate the incentive for the women to grab their blades. The lift positions in particular are ugly as sin and awkward. Horrible.
 

bostonskaterguy86

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Country
United-States
Do people really believe that a separate PCS panel would make a difference? I am afraid PCS would be scored exactly the way it is now: judged by tech content, by a skater's name and by federation the skater belongs to.

While I do think the separate PCS panel is a good idea, unfortunately I think you're right.

If you were to have separate panels judging PCS and GOE on tech elements, you'd need to have central committees at both the federation and ISU level responsible for re-training judges and overseeing how the system was being used to ensure that the criteria were being applied correctly. I think it would also be wise to implement a system where judges indicate the actual bullet points and components that justify their scores, as some of the other folks on this thread have suggested. Otherwise, as you say - it'd be pretty much the same as it is now.

I think it could absolutely work in theory, but I have very little faith that the ISU would be willing to invest the time, money and energy to make the changes effectively - and even if they did, I have even less faith that they'd implement it in a competent fashion.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
.
  • A new computer system in place where you have to press buttons for each reason why a PCS/GOE point should be given. (In fairness, this may be how it already works but I'm not sure). Like the list of reasons why someone deserves a +5 that the ISU provide in document form on their website, but on a screen and judges MUST justify every point they give. The computer system will caculate the GOE/PCS on the reasons that the judges have selected. So, they wouldn't be able to just keep pressing +5 without even looking up at the skating happening in front of them. At every competition and in every discipline, one judge at random will be chosen at the end and they must go through their scoring sheet and explain why they did what they did, like an audit I suppose.
That thing kind of exist in a current judging system in a way that for example judges which GOE marks for some element are two points lower or higher than average GOE of all the judges explain their scoring on a meeting which is held between the judges after every competition. Now, we should keep in mind that GOE are just guidelines for the judging, not exact rules which need to be follow in every single situation. And even on the ISU seminar the first thing you are learning about judging GOE is how the GOE score should represent the whole picture rather than sum of its parts. For example, the skater who are spinning extremely fast with extreme flexibility and different positions (take Lipnitskaya for example) will not have the possibility to center the spin the same way as the skater with the 'regular' spin. Skater who jumps 4Lz with extreme height and distance (as Samarin for example) will not have that good control or flow/creative exit on the landing. Skater which entry into the jump is Charlotte spiral or Layback Ina Bauer will not have the same height and distance on the jump as the skater without it etc etc. So, that's why there is a flexibility in assessing the GOE points. Otherwise, all the skaters will follow the same route and all the elements will look exactly the same, which would be boring to watch.
 
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