What rule changes would you like to see next season? | Page 11 | Golden Skate

What rule changes would you like to see next season?

bostonskaterguy86

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Country
United-States
Do people really believe that a separate PCS panel would make a difference? I am afraid PCS would be scored exactly the way it is now: judged by tech content, by a skater's name and by federation the skater belongs to.

While I do think the separate PCS panel is a good idea, unfortunately I think you're right.

If you were to have separate panels judging PCS and GOE on tech elements, you'd need to have central committees at both the federation and ISU level responsible for re-training judges and overseeing how the system was being used to ensure that the criteria were being applied correctly. I think it would also be wise to implement a system where judges indicate the actual bullet points and components that justify their scores, as some of the other folks on this thread have suggested. Otherwise, as you say - it'd be pretty much the same as it is now.

I think it could absolutely work in theory, but I have very little faith that the ISU would be willing to invest the time, money and energy to make the changes effectively - and even if they did, I have even less faith that they'd implement it in a competent fashion.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
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  • A new computer system in place where you have to press buttons for each reason why a PCS/GOE point should be given. (In fairness, this may be how it already works but I'm not sure). Like the list of reasons why someone deserves a +5 that the ISU provide in document form on their website, but on a screen and judges MUST justify every point they give. The computer system will caculate the GOE/PCS on the reasons that the judges have selected. So, they wouldn't be able to just keep pressing +5 without even looking up at the skating happening in front of them. At every competition and in every discipline, one judge at random will be chosen at the end and they must go through their scoring sheet and explain why they did what they did, like an audit I suppose.
That thing kind of exist in a current judging system in a way that for example judges which GOE marks for some element are two points lower or higher than average GOE of all the judges explain their scoring on a meeting which is held between the judges after every competition. Now, we should keep in mind that GOE are just guidelines for the judging, not exact rules which need to be follow in every single situation. And even on the ISU seminar the first thing you are learning about judging GOE is how the GOE score should represent the whole picture rather than sum of its parts. For example, the skater who are spinning extremely fast with extreme flexibility and different positions (take Lipnitskaya for example) will not have the possibility to center the spin the same way as the skater with the 'regular' spin. Skater who jumps 4Lz with extreme height and distance (as Samarin for example) will not have that good control or flow/creative exit on the landing. Skater which entry into the jump is Charlotte spiral or Layback Ina Bauer will not have the same height and distance on the jump as the skater without it etc etc. So, that's why there is a flexibility in assessing the GOE points. Otherwise, all the skaters will follow the same route and all the elements will look exactly the same, which would be boring to watch.
 
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lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
I know, it’s very labour-intensive, but I would have loved the elements of the step sequence in singles to be listed in final protocols, the same way they do those weird letters in ice dance. That would make the levels on step sequence a bit easier to understand.
 

Shayuki

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Realistic or unrealistic? I'd like a bit more focus on the skating aspects, it's kind of meh to just have one step sequence and the rest having little to do with skating. Perhaps add a second step sequence. I also would like spin durations to be lower. They take up way too much time, sometimes over half a short program is spent spinning. Max 8 revolutions for a spin or something, and focus on interesting and difficult variations instead.

So in short, add a second step sequence or a different skating-related element, and make spins last a shorter duration.
 

Kathy1

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 7, 2021
In an ideal world, I would bring back the Original Dance, school figures, and the 6.0 judging system. However, since those are not realistic options, I believe the "Q" call for jumps must be eliminated as it adds even more confusion and unfairness to an already problematic scoring calculus.
 

sissyfritz

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
With regards to the spirals, I don't know if adding in a full sequence is realistic these days (even though I personally miss them). However, I do think that if someone is going to attempt to hit a spiral shape on the ice, then there should be a minimum length of time with which they have to hold the position in order for it to count. It doesn't have to be forever, but at least a few seconds would show that the skater has real control over the element. They have minimum time requirements for lifts in ice dance, revolutions for spins, etc, so why not something similar for spirals?

I'm so tired of these overpacked programs where skaters randomly throw a leg in the air for half a second, then do it again four more times in the program for no good reason (choreography is supposed to serve a purpose.) Especially since I think that most of those skaters could probably achieve excellent positions in spirals, etc, if given half a chance.



Also, as a side note; someone earlier suggested that ice dance should require lifts to be different from one program to the other. I think this is a fabulous idea and I'd take it even farther and suggest that all creative position elements (spins, lifts, step sequences,) should be different in the short and free. Not sure how the skaters would take this, though.
 

lurkerghost1

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
get rid of the 5 components of PCS and just make it one score. The judges already judge that way so why pretend otherwise
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I may be a minority here but I miss a required spiral sequence (maybe just in one program?). I love the chreo sequence idea, but also want a real spiral from the ladies who can actually do them. and incentivize the women who can't to do it. choreo sequence in the short, spirals in the free?
I think the spiral sequence was eliminated in IJS because they couldn't figure out how to score it properly. All of the spirals ended up looking the same and there was an incentive to do a catch-foot instead of the more (IMO) attractive arabesque position. And each position had to be held for 3 seconds, which ended up taking up a lot of time as well as again, making all spiral sequences look the same. Maybe the spiral sequence could be brought back as an alternative (skater's choice) to the choreo sequence--?
 

Zora

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Maybe the spiral sequence could be brought back as an alternative (skater's choice) to the choreo sequence--?
The choreo sequence is the biggest joke anyway. There are very, very, few examples of a good and memorable choreo sequence, and it's not even worth the effort, because all the top skaters get the same score for it anyway, even if they just use it as a filler somewhere in between. With the spiral sequence, they could judge the speed, the ice coverage, sometimes there were mistakes where a skater lost points. This element at least made some sense. I think it would be nice, if instead of the choreo sequence, there was a choice between a second step sequence and a spiral sequence, but those elements need to be judged properly.
 

labgoat

Caretaker of the Pull Arabians
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Country
United-States
Yes, @WeakAnkles I too have been very upset by the retreat to reputation judging and the valuing of speed over the ability to actually dance to both fast and slow rhythms. And yes, all choreographic elements are effectively 6.0 judging
It is a question of speed vs. neatness.
Best to worst - that's how I see it without a speed bonus unless pristine
1 speedy skating with pristine execution
2 speedy skating with sloppier execution
2 moderate speed with pristine execution
3 moderate speed with sloppier execution
 

Arbitrary

Medalist
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
1. Allow any jumps anywhere for seniors.
2. GOE back to +/- 3 from 5.
3. Prepare CoP BVs for quints.
4. Allow skates with passive mechanics, like in the speed skating.
5. Fall on the back = 0 points.
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
Maybe the spiral sequence could be brought back as an alternative (skater's choice) to the choreo sequence--?
There's nothing stopping a skater from doing spirals as a choreo sequence (as several do), so that's not an alternative.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
There's nothing stopping a skater from doing spirals as a choreo sequence (as several do), so that's not an alternative.
True, so maybe it shouldn't be an alternative. Substitute a spiral sequence for the choreo sequence--at least two positions (change of edge counting as two), without levels or hold requirements.
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
True, so maybe it shouldn't be an alternative. Substitute a spiral sequence for the choreo sequence--at least two positions (change of edge counting as two), without levels or hold requirements.
God no, mandatory spiral sequences were a massive drag most of the time — and I don’t see any reason why women should have a different set of required elements than men.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
God no, mandatory spiral sequences were a massive drag most of the time — and I don’t see any reason why women should have a different set of required elements than men.
This. Spirals are fine now and then, but if all 30 competitors will spend 10 seconds of each program in a static arrested motion slide… have mercy on coffee plantations world-wide! They are already struggling with the growing demands. it will be worse than blues steps in rhythm dance this season. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. The. Same. Year after year…. Ouch.
 
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