What rule changes would you like to see next season? | Page 9 | Golden Skate

What rule changes would you like to see next season?

Lzbee

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Thank you for the explanation :) It makes more sense now.

I still think it's sexist and need to evolve, though ; granted women scoring above 80 is a recent phenomenon (what do you consider recent, btw ? I feel like Medvedeva was already scoring above 80 in TES, and that was before the previous Olys ; maybe I remember wrong though), but that's what rule changes is all about - taking into account the recent evolutions of the situation and adapt the rules accordingly :)

And this idea that the women needed their PCS capped at 80% because nobody imagined them capable of jumping multiple ultra-Cs successfully, honestly it just reeks of a glass ceiling situation and insidious sexism to me. You can disagree of course, that's only my perspective, but I'll stand by it ☺️
Senior women who scored over 80 TES before 19/20 season in international competition:

Zagitova - 5 times - highest score 83.54
Kihira* - 4 times - highest 87.17
Tuktamysheva* - 1 time - 82.15

Women who scored over 75 TES before 18/19 season:

Kihira* - 5 times
Zagitova - 10 times
Tursynbayeva* - 1 time - 78.97
Kim (Yuna) - 1 time - 78.30
Medvedeva - 9 times - highest 79.18
Osmond - 2 times - highest 76.50
Tennel - 2 times - highest 79.64
Tuktamysheva* - 3 times
Mihara - 1 time - 76.07
Higuchi - 1 time - 75.65
Sotnikova - 1 time - 75.54
Miyahara - 2 times - 75.20

* Has ultra-c jump.

So from these numbers, I think the 80 cap was the right call in the past. Only 2 of these scores occurred before 2015.
 

TT_Fin

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Country
Finland
A limit on the "hand over head" thing when doing jumps. I don't mind it once in a program, but 3+ times is excessive, and IMHO doesn't really add anything esthetically pleasing to a program.
Some of our Finnish commentators have said, that some skaters find it even easier to jump by that way. So many skaters do it today, even those who don't have difficult jumps, so I agree, it is not worth of limit anymore. I
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
I still think it's sexist and need to evolve, though ; granted women scoring above 80 is a recent phenomenon (what do you consider recent, btw ? I feel like Medvedeva was already scoring above 80 in TES, and that was before the previous Olys ; maybe I remember wrong though), but that's what rule changes is all about - taking into account the recent evolutions of the situation and adapt the rules accordingly :)

And this idea that the women needed their PCS capped at 80% because nobody imagined them capable of jumping multiple ultra-Cs successfully, honestly it just reeks of a glass ceiling situation and insidious sexism to me. You can disagree of course, that's only my perspective, but I'll stand by it ☺️
All of the disciplines have their TES modulated to the approximate maximum of the achievable technical score (in the case of men, they used to have eight jumps versus the women's seven, so it was even easier there; the reduction has narrowed the differential, but it's still very visible).

Compare at top ten free skate TES at the 2021 World Championships.

Men
N. Chen - 125.89
Kagiyama - 102.39
Uno - 94.90
Hanyu - 89.78
Kolyada - 88.82
Messing - 87.15
Semenenko - 90.51
Brown - 80.12
Aymoz - 79.64
Grassl - 88.02

Women
Trusova - 88.04
Shcherbakova - 80.32
Tuktamysheva - 73.52
Hendrickx - 74.53
Sakamoto - 69.72
K. Chen - 66.34
Mikutina - 70.34
Tennell - 60.52
Kihira - 58.59
Ryabova - 68.70
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
If the figures were removed because they were deemed too boring 30 years ago, when there were a billion less channels and no internet, it tells you what kind of shot they have of coming back in the current era.

Figures today would be the first sport on tv with negative ratings. A test pattern will outdraw that competition. They will sack the ISU member just for proposing it. Haha
They were never shown on TV to start with. Maybe 5 minute summary.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
Some of our Finnish commentators have said, that some skaters find it even easier to jump by that way. So many skaters do it today, even those who don't have difficult jumps, so I agree, it is not worth of limit anymore. I
What I’ve heard is that whichever way you learned it is easier. So if you learned with hands over the head it is easier to do like that.
 

Skatingcat

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Given that there is a channel/niche/website/twitter/tiktok for everything, if the figures came back, I'm sure there would be enough skating fans who would watch it- but I agree that it will never be on tv again.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
If the figures were removed because they were deemed too boring 30 years ago, when there were a billion less channels and no internet, it tells you what kind of shot they have of coming back in the current era.

Figures today would be the first sport on tv with negative ratings. A test pattern will outdraw that competition. They will sack the ISU member just for proposing it. Haha
Disagree that it has to be boring... and even if it were...

People watch darts on TV in Britain. Here in America, we now have some sort of televised bean bag throwing competition. Heck, there's even a spelling bee on ESPN every year. I'd rather watch paint dry than view any of these... but there's an audience for all of them.

There's got to be some way to jazz up a figures competition. I've advocated for some sort of electronic tracking device on the blades so the pattern can be projected onto a big screen to compare the "perfect" figure with what the skater has done.

I'm certain there is a smart person somewhere who could figure out how to do this.
 

rollerblade

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
There's got to be some way to jazz up a figures competition. I've advocated for some sort of electronic tracking device on the blades so the pattern can be projected onto a big screen to compare the "perfect" figure with what the skater has done.

I'm certain there is a smart person somewhere who could figure out how to do this.
Don't we already have the technology for this? Japanese Nationals have animated graphics of the skaters program pattern (which mostly look like a spaghetti mess lol). They even have "pins" of where on the ice each element occurred, how fast/slow they skated throughout the program and all that jazz.
 

alexocfp

Medalist
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Country
United-States
Disagree that it has to be boring... and even if it were...

People watch darts on TV in Britain. Here in America, we now have some sort of televised bean bag throwing competition. Heck, there's even a spelling bee on ESPN every year. I'd rather watch paint dry than view any of these... but there's an audience for all of them.

There's got to be some way to jazz up a figures competition. I've advocated for some sort of electronic tracking device on the blades so the pattern can be projected onto a big screen to compare the "perfect" figure with what the skater has done.

I'm certain there is a smart person somewhere who could figure out how to do this.
Darts work because of the personalities, the drama, and the awesome crowds.

Cornhole and spelling bees work because the average person has probably done both at a local level. It’s something the viewer can relate to.

Taking a niche sport to begin with and driving it more niche and underground by resurrecting the most tedious, monotonous exercise that’s been dead for a quarter century isn’t the way to go.

This is the equivalent of having a spelling bee with every word being 3 letters.

No need to have a splitting hairs competition in figure skating. “She has done it, her line is .0003 millimeters straighter!” Haha

There is already a great sport for skaters going in circles: speed skating and short track speed skating.

It would be way better to introduce something 21st century like a jump contest.

It was trialed at the Channel One Cup, and was TV friendly, a real crowd pleaser and is way better than looking to replicate a figure skating relic from the black and white era.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I may be a minority here but I miss a required spiral sequence (maybe just in one program?). I love the chreo sequence idea, but also want a real spiral from the ladies who can actually do them. and incentivize the women who can't to do it. choreo sequence in the short, spirals in the free?
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
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Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
Don't we already have the technology for this? Japanese Nationals have animated graphics of the skaters program pattern (which mostly look like a spaghetti mess lol). They even have "pins" of where on the ice each element occurred, how fast/slow they skated throughout the program and all that jazz.
They do! It was pretty cool actually, along with the measuring device for jumps (height and length).

They could bring in fancy figures, I found this YouTube channel and apparently it's still a thing..they do it on special black coloured ice.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Please not figures!!! I wish they would have two separate panels for tech and PCS. But they won't.
I've commented this before. Look at the judging panels at lower competitions, they are glad when they are able to obtain five judges and now imagine they would have to provide double number of them.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
Disagree that it has to be boring... and even if it were...

People watch darts on TV in Britain. Here in America, we now have some sort of televised bean bag throwing competition. Heck, there's even a spelling bee on ESPN every year. I'd rather watch paint dry than view any of these... but there's an audience for all of them.

There's got to be some way to jazz up a figures competition. I've advocated for some sort of electronic tracking device on the blades so the pattern can be projected onto a big screen to compare the "perfect" figure with what the skater has done.

I'm certain there is a smart person somewhere who could figure out how to do this.


There’s watching other people playing video games…eating competitions…curling…
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
curling…
Curling is strangely addictive to watch...especially when the Norwegian team comes out! :laugh2:

I've commented this before. Look at the judging panels at lower competitions, they are glad when they are able to obtain five judges and now imagine they would have to provide double number of them
This is a shame because honestly rating PCS and GOE is a lot on a judge's plate (I'm sure nearly all of them don't mean to underscore or overscore this and that, but you've got to score EVERYTHING in such a short time you're going to take shortcuts, like hard jumps = better skating skills etc), I was watching gymnastics the other week and their judging panel was huge. They even had different panels for body difficulty vs appartatus difficulty in the Rhythmic Gymnastics, there must have been 20 people judging a routine.

Maybe the tech panel could be expanded to judge the jumps and spins and step sequences? After all they're the ones who call the levels and would no doubt also have a really good idea of what GOE each is worth.

That aside, I do hope they let solo 3As in the SP for junior women and quads in the SP for senior women after the Olympics.
 

Roast Toast

Medalist
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
So much difficulty has been taken out of Ice Dance. WTF is a choreographic sliding movement? They are all ugly, these days skaters are just doing regular lifts and putting a hand on the ice to call it a slide. We need a second step sequence again, and more required turns in those step sequences, the current 5 is ridiculously low, the top teams are just skating around for half their patterns since putting additional turns is more dangerous than not. The only new element I like is the character step sequence, it encourages throughtful choreo, teams that have a strong FD concept really shine (G/Pa being the best example this season). Even then the restriction is dumb, why require it in a straight line in front of the judges?
I actually don't mind the half-patterns we are seeing in the RD, but I hate the loose music categories. Street dance? Musicals? These are so broad they become meaningless, the teams can just skate to and justify whatever music they want. So many teams did not properly showcase the bubbly, fizzy nature of a finnstep, I would have given half the field music violations.
Lifts are mostly fine, we are still seeing innovation. Some people in this thread have mentioned making it harder to get level 4s, I think a good way to do that would be tightening up the difficult entry and exit features, a lot of teams are using these as crutches, they are too easy to achieve.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I actually don't mind the half-patterns we are seeing in the RD, but I hate the loose music categories. Street dance? Musicals? These are so broad they become meaningless, the teams can just skate to and justify whatever music they want. So many teams did not properly showcase the bubbly, fizzy nature of a finnstep, I would have given half the field music violations.

I'm skipping the RD for the remainder of the season. They're terrible, not worth the time investment to watch them.

I wrote on another thread that I imagine the ISU picked hip-hop/street to appeal to young people in an Olympic season, but young people are going to laugh out loud at these. They are so sparkly and vanilla and Wonderbread.

It's like guest stars Donny and Marie singing Tupac's greatest hits on the Carol Burnett show.
 

kappa_1

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
It's like guest stars Donny and Marie singing Tupac's greatest hits on the Carol Burnett show.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

As to some of the other suggestions, nostalgia glasses are strong. Exciting, strong, and creative spins and footwork of the past? Huh?? In 6.0?? Maybe only a handful of skaters, but the majority were mediocre and this system has, on average, forced everyone to work on their spins and footwork. Skating skills are generally better also, now that skaters are forced to do crossovers and turns, etc. in all directions. To be honest lots of intermediate and novice level skaters I see at my ice rink have much better spins and footwork than the majority of skaters under 6.0. Should the rules continue to be tweaked, though? Definitely. Just like change of edge in any position (as opposed to camel or forward sit), or back camel entrance as difficult features, or unlimited use of the same features were abolished, I'd like to see some of the great suggestions here put into place, like quads in the women's SP (although I see the downsides of this), 3A for junior girls, stricter criteria for positive GOE in spins, etc.

I'm also torn about whether I would like a spiral sequence back. Under 6.0 most spiral sequences were slapped together (just like spins and footwork), and under the early days of the IJS we saw the same generic spiral sequences that everyone did (FI-FO change of edge + catch foot, BI spiral with catch foot or Y-spiral). Maybe in the FS a choice of an unleveled spiral or choreo sequence (for both men and women). And also I would like to see an unleveled spin in the FS and make the 7th jump element a "creative" jump element so we could see those Russian split jumps or other cool jumps (Tomoki Hiwatashi comes to mind :D )

At the end of the day it's a sport, and folks will optimize for points and not for creativity. If we build in some sort of creativity score this just makes things more subjective.
 
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