Who can defeat the Russian Women in 2021-22?

[flanker]

Um when you say the Russians I'm assuming you mean the top 7 Russians? Because Sinitsyna and Samodurova are beatable for sure.

Of the top Russians though, Kostornaia almost lost to Mihara at Skate Canada and Usacheva almost lost to Young You and Sakamoto at Skate America.

I trust you will remember this as the day captain Jack Sparrow almost escaped.

 

[Greengemmonster]

No one.

Honestly it's not just the quads. It's the mindset. I really admire the mental toughness of the Russian ladies.

Sure their weapons help but they're not flakey. They go out and do what they're trained to do.

I actually would just be happy to see more well performed, maximised triples programs from the other ladies without mistakes and meltdowns. Mai was beautiful at Skate Canada even without quads. When I think about it, it's actually rare to get a clean triples program like Mai's. Someone is usually always missing a spin, falling on a jump, popping a jump etc

 

[skatesofgold]

I totally agree with everyone saying no one. Russians have triple axels and quads and, for the most part, rotate their triples better than anyone else. Not to mention, they're better prepared mentally. I don't know what it'll take for the rest of the field to get more competitive. I hope this is only a phase, but I think it really depends on how much coaching knowledge is shared.

 

[Amei]

I totally agree with everyone saying no one. Russians have triple axels and quads and, for the most part, rotate their triples better than anyone else. Not to mention, they're better prepared mentally. I don't know what it'll take for the rest of the field to get more competitive. I hope this is only a phase, but I think it really depends on how much coaching knowledge is shared.

The sad part a bit is that I think the most anticipated event for the ladies this year is the Russian Nationals, not the Olympics.

 

[Joekaz]

No one.

Honestly it's not just the quads. It's the mindset. I really admire the mental toughness of the Russian ladies.

Sure their weapons help but they're not flakey. They go out and do what they're trained to do.

I actually would just be happy to see more well performed, maximised triples programs from the other ladies without mistakes and meltdowns. Mai was beautiful at Skate Canada even without quads. When I think about it, it's actually rare to get a clean triples program like Mai's. Someone is usually always missing a spin, falling on a jump, popping a jump etc

The problem with Mai is her scoring ceiling is very low. She has neither speed, power nor charisma. She is always a podium threat at regular GP events if others mess up, but has no chance at a WC or Olympics.

 

[Joekaz]

I'd like to add skating skills are not something subjective. It's a technical skill that are composed of the quality of a skater's edges, crossovers, efficiency and flow. Kaori and Rika's skating skills are 100% superior to any of the Russian ladies except for mayyybeee Aliona and Daria.

I disagree. The judging criteria are full of words like good, difficult, original, fast, far, high. Every one of those words is subjective. All scoring is subjective. They should go to +1-1, eliminate the q, compress the possible range of PCS,and eliminate SS and TR from PCS(they are already rewarded by levels and GOE) Take away as much as possible from the judges. PCS and GOE should only come into play as a tiebreaker between two relatively equal programs. Not to make up for errors or lack of technical difficulty.

 

[alexocfp]

No one.

Honestly it's not just the quads. It's the mindset. I really admire the mental toughness of the Russian ladies.

Sure their weapons help but they're not flakey. They go out and do what they're trained to do.

I actually would just be happy to see more well performed, maximised triples programs from the other ladies without mistakes and meltdowns. Mai was beautiful at Skate Canada even without quads. When I think about it, it's actually rare to get a clean triples program like Mai's. Someone is usually always missing a spin, falling on a jump, popping a jump etc

I totally agree with everyone saying no one. Russians have triple axels and quads and, for the most part, rotate their triples better than anyone else. Not to mention, they're better prepared mentally. I don't know what it'll take for the rest of the field to get more competitive. I hope this is only a phase, but I think it really depends on how much coaching knowledge is shared.

Good posts these.

Both mentioning the mental aspects of this. This is way more important than the jumps.

Russian ladies are under the pressure cooker 24/7/365 like very few athletes anywhere.

They live under the “what have you done for me lately” mantra. Being good today doesn’t mean your spot is secured for eternity.

They can’t afford too many bad skates because they get cut and someone else takes their place. It’s not a charity, they are there to win and win soundly. There are a ton of skaters ready to replace the non performers.

The goal is to breed winners. They treat it as a sport, where the goal is to defeat everyone you encounter.

They skate hurt, they skate when they aren’t 100%, they skate come hell or high water. Nobody outworks them either because the lazy ones get replaced without a second thought.

They are trained to be bulldogs and baby faced assassins.

That‘s why I fell in love with this crop and it’s no secret that I am a big fan of theirs.

They want to win badly, And they will sacrifice almost anything to do so. Anna not quitting and risking her life, and the lives of everyone around her, to win National gold might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s mine. That’s the winner mentality and it’s not just Anna that has it.

Once they get out of Russia and face competitors that skate “to try my best” or “to have some friendly competition“ or face competitors ”happy to be there” or competitors smiling and laughing after a bad skate, the Russians chew them up and spit them out.

They come fast, they come furious and they have the mental and tech advantage to turn your lights out.

 

[alexocfp]

If you want to sum it up in one sentence:

Medvedeva won Olympic silver (a hell of an accomplishment) and was shattered because it wasn’t gold.

Name a skater from another country that would win silver and be devastated.

 

[rollerblade]

Name a skater from another country that would win silver and be devastated.

Michelle Kwan.
You must be new here.

 

[alexocfp]

Michelle Kwan.
You must be new here.

And look at her CV. It is no coincidence that it’s packed with honors.
The USA was Russia in 1998. Haha

If we had internet then as much as we have now, we would be asking “Who can defeat the American ladies in ’98”

 

[readernick]

Name a skater from another country that would win silver and be devastated

Yuna Kim was definitely unsatisfied with silver and she had no national competition

Yuzuru Hanyu would have been extremely unhappy had he lost to Nathan Chen in 2018. Although, I suspect 2 gold medals is enough and he won't be to upset to lose to Nathan or anyone else this year.

Actually, most athletes from all countries who win silver medals are generally unsatisfied because they tend to focus on how close they were to winning the gold. 2nd and 4th place finishers are often the least satisfied athletes in all sports at the Olympics. There have been studies conducted that show this phenomenon to be distributed across countries and sports .

However, the essential concept is true. In other countries being either talented or a good competitor is enough to be internationally competitive in women's figure skating. In Russian, you need to be talented and a good competitor.

 

[Azikin]

Yuzuru Hanyu would have been extremely unhappy had he lost to Nathan Chen in 2018. Although, I suspect 2 gold medals is enough and he won't be to upset to lose to Nathan or anyone else this year.

Ummmm, I suspect you're suspicion is wrong...

 

[[email protected]]

No one can beat top Russian ladies: Valieva, Trusova, Scherbakova, Tuktamysheva outside the scenario: "total meltdown vs. the skate of one's life" There are some chances for Young You, Kaori, and Alysa to beat Kostornaya, Usacheva, and Kromykh if they all deliver to their current potential, well, unless Maia lands all her quads. Then Maia joins "the unbeatable" first group.

If we broaden the group with Sinitsina, Samodurova, and others many non-Russian skaters can beat them if they are lucky to compete against them and not against the above-mentioned skaters from groups 1 and 2.

 

[Scott512]

Injuries and coronavirus can defeat the Russian ladies. And what happens if the under eighteens choose not to get the vaccine or the Russian vaccine is not recognized in China?

With Riks injured I don't think any of the non Russian ladies can beat the Russians eat the Russians but there are other issues to deal with that are significant. No one knows what's going to happen.

We will know more about the Russian ladies and Russian pairs for that matter at the Grand Prix final. I think we all expect a lot of Russians to be there and then we'll know more about their form and health.

 

[nussnacker]

Yuna Kim was definitely unsatisfied with silver and she had no national competition

Tbh, I don’t know how much Yuna cared about that medal. From her words, she didn’t even want to go to Olympics and worlds the year before, but felt obliged to do so.
I think like any athlete she probably felt at least a bit of a disappointment with the outcome, but I don’t think she really put a lot of weight on those Olympics and was desiring that gold the same way Evgenia did. I don’t think she was devastated because it wasn’t gold.

I felt like she just wanted to get it over with and be done with it. Make her fans happy one last time and finally be free from all the weight of the expectations from her country she had to carry every time she stepped on ice.

Just my perception, of course I don’t know how it really felt for her.

 

[Ziotic]

If you want to sum it up in one sentence:

Medvedeva won Olympic silver (a hell of an accomplishment) and was shattered because it wasn’t gold.

Name a skater from another country that would win silver and be devastated.

Patrick Chan, 2014
Tessa/Scott, 2014
Papadakis/Cizeron, 2018
Sui/Han, 2018
Mao Asad, 2010

Shall we continue??

 

[Jeanie19]

Patrick Chan, 2014
Tessa/Scott, 2014
Papadakis/Cizeron, 2018
Sui/Han, 2018
Mao Asad, 2010

Shall we continue??

Yes continue. Brian Orser was devastated both times.

 

[readernick]

[

Ummmm, I suspect you're suspicion is wrong...

Off topic ()

Perhaps I am wrong , Yuzuru has traditionally been very competitive, but when Yuzuru got 3rd at Worlds last year the feeling I got from him was that he wasn't bothered at all. I never got that feeling from him in previous years. Previously, his dissatisfaction was easy to see. I personally think he wants to set a record by landing a 4A more than get any title. He already has all the titles and he has two gold medals. Actually I think landing a clean 4A is less likely than him getting another but I think it is the only thing he cares about

Anyway, back on topic, can anyone beat the Russians? Wakaba could perhaps beat some of them if she could stop popping jumps, but she wouldn't beat all of them and she really likes popping jumps. If Rika was healthy, she would be the obvious contender but she isn't. So, basically no.....

 

[alexocfp]

Patrick Chan, 2014
Tessa/Scott, 2014
Papadakis/Cizeron, 2018
Sui/Han, 2018
Mao Asad, 2010

Shall we continue??

Don’t have any idea about men or pairs skating cause I don’t follow them.

Did any of the above lose to countrymen and teammates?

Besides, I am assuming in the above cases most of not all mentioned had another Olympics or 2 to make up for it. All or most of these skaters kept going. A part of of the Medvedeva flame, competition wise, went out that day.

Russian ladies, in the current climate, aren‘t getting a second bite of the cherry.

And that is why this criticism of them not having longevity is misplaced.

Unless you are a legend like Liza, the depth in competition doesn’t allow you to be at the top for a long time.

Nobody in the history of skating, has had to face as much competition from their county women. Had all these skaters from the past had the Russian ladies as competition, they wouldn’t have had as long as a career either.

 

[Amei]

If you want to sum it up in one sentence:

Medvedeva won Olympic silver (a hell of an accomplishment) and was shattered because it wasn’t gold.

Name a skater from another country that would win silver and be devastated.

I think most athletes have some level of devastation or disappointment losing gold by a small margin; whether or not they display that emotion for public consumption is a different story but I don't think we can say Medvedeva was more devastated because she put her emotions out there for public consumption.