Who can rival Kim in Sochi: Asada or Kostner?

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

All of those above are comparable to Yu-Na but this one is simply superior. A perfect textbook +3 2A with no telegraphed entry, big height and distance, tano variation, wonderful flowing edge in and out of it, good extention of the free leg (this is what Yu-Na lacks) and a difficult/creative exit with those change of edges (Mao used it as well in her Clair de Lune 2A):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQVwA28Jm-w&t=1m41s

Interestingly, the varied position in the air did not affect the distance covered and spring.

Sorry, but that is an extremely telegraphed 2A... she skates almost a full half-circle in the middle of the ice. But the actual jump itself though is great and superior to most, including a lot of Kim's 2As... +2 in my books, +3 if it didn't have the telegraphing.

 

[jaylee]

Irina would never bother to do such combos because she didn't need them under 6.0. Did anyone actually land axel combinations like 2A+3T in the old system? I agree that overall Yu-Na has the edge because of the jumps she adds to the 2A but the jumps itself is not definitely "far better" than Irina. What are those 5 difficult entrances? I remember Yu-Na doing a spread eagle and ina bauer entry to axel, nothing more. The sheer jump is comparable with Irina who has a little bit more height and power to it and holds the edge for a long time with well-extended free leg, what Yu-Na does not do. Irina did not have any difficult entries but performed her double axel with a very short set-up or right after her 3F using just the flow she had after the flip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Lr_dgpX9E&t=3m34s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waquBqyrAvg&t=3m17s

This is very nice. No time to prepare at all, no crossovers, showing how easy the jump was for her.

And here we have a wonderful 2A with this edge held for a long time and again the set-up is very short:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uIvHWQ7vyY&t=1m52s if this doesn't have the flow and height then I don't know what has...

All of those above are comparable to Yu-Na but this one is simply superior. A perfect textbook +3 2A with no telegraphed entry, big height and distance, tano variation, wonderful flowing edge in and out of it, good extention of the free leg (this is what Yu-Na lacks) and a difficult/creative exit with those change of edges (Mao used it as well in her Clair de Lune 2A):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQVwA28Jm-w&t=1m41s

Interestingly, the varied position in the air did not affect the distance covered and spring.

I'm not saying Yu-Na has a bad 2A or something, it's fantastic but I would just give a tiny edge to Slutskaya.

How did this thread become about Yu-Na's 2A versus Irina's? I agree that Irina's 2A was terrific. I especially like the one from 1998 Worlds.

However, to answer the question on what other entrances Yu-Na used--actually, Yu-Na has had a variety of short entrances following a jump, spiral sequence, or step sequence, including but not limited to:

Short set-up, after 3S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bHqwxLU4mIc#t=224s
Short set-up, after spiral sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7f_CI13vt3g#t=107s
Short set-up, after footwork: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sKzGlEXO8FY#t=211s
And, very nice extension on this 2A, with the edge held a long time, out of an Ina Bauer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aUPli-YWzWw#t=101s

My guess is actually that Irina's use of the 2A with the short entrance inspired Yu-Na, but I don't have any evidence for that. Just a guess since Irina is one of the (many) skaters that Yu-Na liked.

 

[FlattFan]

Irina would never bother to do such combos because she didn't need them under 6.0. Did anyone actually land axel combinations like 2A+3T in the old system?

Empress Ito used to do 2A-3T and 2A-Lo-3Sal all the time. Irina wouldn't be able to land them anyway, her combo is horrendous.

 

[Bartek]

Empress Ito used to do 2A-3T and 2A-Lo-3Sal all the time. Irina wouldn't be able to land them anyway, her combo is horrendous.

Hahaha, out of all adjectives in the world you pick horrendous to describe Irina Slutskaya's jumps. Are they as horrendous as Kostner's inconsistency?

Irina landed a HUGE 3T+3T at 1998 Olympics which indicates that she would be easily capable of landing an easier 2A+3T.

 

[Bartek]

How did this thread become about Yu-Na's 2A versus Irina's? I agree that Irina's 2A was terrific. I especially like the one from 1998 Worlds.

However, to answer the question on what other entrances Yu-Na used--actually, Yu-Na has had a variety of short entrances following a jump, spiral sequence, or step sequence, including but not limited to:

Short set-up, after 3S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bHqwxLU4mIc#t=224s
Short set-up, after spiral sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7f_CI13vt3g#t=107s
Short set-up, after footwork: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sKzGlEXO8FY#t=211s
And, very nice extension on this 2A, with the edge held a long time, out of an Ina Bauer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aUPli-YWzWw#t=101s

My guess is actually that Irina's use of the 2A with the short entrance inspired Yu-Na, but I don't have any evidence for that. Just a guess since Irina is one of the (many) skaters that Yu-Na liked.

Thank you for that! I especially like the 2A from Danse Macabre right after the spiral sequence. But you see, the height is rather ordinary when compared with Irina's double axels.

I didn't remember Yu-Na extending her leg so nicely like in 2009 Worlds FS. I wish she did that more frequently.

 

[Bartek]

Sorry, but that is an extremely telegraphed 2A... she skates almost a full half-circle in the middle of the ice. But the actual jump itself though is great and superior to most, including a lot of Kim's 2As... +2 in my books, +3 if it didn't have the telegraphing.

Oh that's right, she starts gaining speed near the board and lands the jump near the opposite board. This would do better I think, from the Olympics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJKs2kaJlyc&t=1m43s

 

[pangtongfan]

Why on earth is Slutskaya even a discussion topic in this thread. Sorry it makes no sense to be arguing her for pages upon pages to a thread that even indirectly in no way involves her. Who is a better skater between Slutskaya and Kostner (which based on credentials and achievements is Slutskaya by a country mile but anyway) has no bearing to what kind of threat (if any) Kostner or Asada are to Kim in Sochi, which is more of a threat, who is more likely to do better in Sochi between the two.

 

[Jammers]

Mao just got beat at the WTT by not only Ashley but Gracie. If she doesn't nail the 3axel and continues to struggle with her other triple jumps she's vulnerable for next season not just to the veterans but to the youngsters like Gracie and Adelina who both beat her at the WTT.

 

[ElleluvsL]

Mao just got beat at the WTT by not only Ashley but Gracie. If she doesn't nail the 3axel and continues to struggle with her other triple jumps she's vulnerable for next season not just to the veterans but to the youngsters like Gracie and Adelina who both beat her at the WTT.

Mao appeared to be skating while injured at WTT. Overtraining her current layout while constantly practicing 3A must have taken its toll at this point in the season. Medaling at the Olympics will be all about peaking at the right time and using this summer wisely.

 

[venlac]

I try to thinking differently...

I realized that in WC Mao's FS score was her personal best; broke the record of 6 years ago in this article..
http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/p-sp-tp0-20130413-1111756.html
within this article, she was surprised that Fs score was the personal best score.
although It was not the perfect program for her. (3a 2foot, 3F<, 3lz 'e', 3F+2lo<+2lo)
Now she seem to have a larger potential to raise score than when she was young

 

[pointyourtoe]

Never mind.

 

[yangjie]

kim has the wrong edge problem on her flip.
it is the weakness of her.

 

[philice]

kim has the wrong edge problem on her flip.
it is the weakness of her.

In her whole career, Yuna had got only 4 times wrong edge or attention mark for her flip jump, rotated and landed : 2008 COC, 2009 4CC, 2009 WC always by the same tech, and 2013 WC. We should not forget 1 downgrade 2009 GPF still by the same one.

Do you know how many times other female skaters had got this penalty? You are talking about Weakness....

 

[SoundtracksOnIce]

I'm not sure about likeliness, but I would LOVE to see Carolina get in there and medal, if not win outright. She's been one of my favorites for years.

 

[FlattFan]

I would like Carolina to win as well. She's my favorite at this moment.

 

[mateusp1]

Both can beat Kim or come very close. They just need to skate two flawless programs. What makes Kim so "unbeatable" right now is that she is the only lady able to skate two flawless, mistake-free programs.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Both can beat Kim or come very close. They just need to skate two flawless programs. What makes Kim so "unbeatable" right now is that she is the only lady able to skate two flawless, mistake-free programs.

I think Carolina could if she was clean, but she has never been clean enough to beat what Yuna showed at the WC. Mao does not get enough GOE on her jumps to compete with Yuna, and with 7 jumping passes in the LP that adds up to quite a margin.

 

[ForeverFish]

I think Carolina could if she was clean, but she has never been clean enough to beat what Yuna showed at the WC. Mao does not get enough GOE on her jumps to compete with Yuna, and with 7 jumping passes in the LP that adds up to quite a margin.

Can someone refresh my memory on why Mao doesn't jump triple-triples? With that factored into her GOE, she could close the gap between Yuna and herself.

 

[mateusp1]

I think Carolina could if she was clean, but she has never been clean enough to beat what Yuna showed at the WC. Mao does not get enough GOE on her jumps to compete with Yuna, and with 7 jumping passes in the LP that adds up to quite a margin.

I am a huge Carofan. That said, I have to say that she has never been able to skate a "completely clean, flawless" long program, executing everything she planned with the quality she is able to do. Even in 2012 worlds, which I consider her best LP performance, she doubled her flip and some of her jumps were not executed as she can double(meaning that she got positive GOE, but +1, not +2 or +3).

Mao can also come very close to beat Kim because of her base value(the highest).

 

[mateusp1]

Can someone refresh my memory on why Mao doesn't jump triple-triples? With that factored into her GOE, she could close the gap between Yuna and herself.

Mao included in her plans, last season, a 3Flip-3Loop. But, at 4CC it was UR and she messed up the landing of the flip in the worlds.