Who is DOOMED next season?

[fumie_fumie]

All I can say is I hope all the Canadian singles and pairs skaters come up with interesting programs for the forthcoming season, because we will likely be seeing them again for the Olympic season as well.

It doesn't matter what you think at the end of the day, It is not as though Canadian skaters seek or listen to your input.

No matter how great a program a Canadian skater will bring to the market, you will poo-poo at it. The reason varies: Oh, I can't stand the screaming in the music ( in the case of VM's FD). Oh, this or oh that. You will always find reason to make you believe what you want to believe.

You gotta take a mental note in your mind and try to find an inner peace, believing that Canadian skaters recycle the same programs over two seasons because they are inferior to your US skaters and they are unable to learn a new program. I think you will be very happy with this conclusion.

 

[screech]

Johnny went back to "Otonal" for Worlds one season because his FS wasn't working out, but it wasn't the FS from the previous season, but from two seasons back. So he hadn't been doing the old program all season.

But it seems Canadian skaters are sacrosanct from criticism because they are all 'working on their jumps'.

You have admitted that Jeff had reson to re-use his. He has re-used in the past, with going back to his 04 LP for the Olympics for the same reason Johnny went back to Otonal - the LP wasn't working out for him.

Patrick re-used his because 1 - he hadn't had any real exposure with it last year so it was new to most people, and 2 - it had been too difficult for him so he could now master it and skate it beautifully.

As has been stated before, many MANY other skaters recylce programs. Heck, the mens silver medalist re-used his (yes, injuries, but same reason as Jeff so there should be no arguments there).

It is not just a canadian thing. This year, yes, some did recycle programs, but this is not a common thing and is not likely to be repeated every year as you are suggesting. Most skaters from any nation have repeated a program at some point so to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and... about Canadians basically being horrible and boring and non-creative, etc, for sticking with a program is basically just an attempt to bash the country's skaters for no reason as almost every country does this at some point.

One post in this thread was in response to your comments and mentioned Michelle Kwan repeating and your response was 'what does Michelle have to do with this topic?' Um, everything? You just don't want to hear about non-canadians doing the same thing.

 

[chuckm]

Patrick re-used his because 1 - he hadn't had any real exposure with it last year so it was new to most people, and 2 - it had been too difficult for him so he could now master it and skate it beautifully.

Chan had just as much exposure as anyone else: he had 2 GPs and Junior Worlds in 2007, and won JW silver. If the program was too difficult, that is a choreography problem. If the choreographer creates a program that proves too difficult for the skater to deliver cleanly, then it is not serving the needs of the skater.

One post in this thread was in response to your comments and mentioned Michelle Kwan repeating and your response was 'what does Michelle have to do with this topic?' Um, everything? You just don't want to hear about non-canadians doing the same thing.

Michelle Kwan NEVER repeated a free skate two years back to back---she never repeated a FS, ever, at all. She did bring back Rachmaninoff and East of Eden as SPs, but in neither case was the repeat in the next year.

THAT's why I asked what Michelle Kwan had to do with it.

Furthermore, I have said I have no problem with skaters repeating SPs, as long as they only do it for two years. More than that IS a problem. What I object to is repeated FSs. IMO there has to be a very good reason to do that; it should not be done as a matter of course.

There are complaints that FS is becoming less and less popular with TV audiences. Perhaps seeing the same programs from the same skaters over and over again has something to do with it (and I am talking about repeated SPs as well, in this case).

 

[Buttercup]

Why complain as if the Canadians are the only nation to repeat programs? Lysacek repeated Carmen in '07, Lambiel repeated Poeta albeit after only 1 international outing with it in '07 at the Worlds, Van Der Perren repeated his LP at this year's Worlds from a previous season, Joubert repeated Matrix in '06

Actually, I think KvdP also repeated Pirates of the Carribean - he did it at Olys and at 2007 Euros. Brian Joubert almost always repeats his programs assuming they work well for him - Time (2003, 2004 SP), The Matrix (2004 and 2006 Worlds, though I think that was because his original LP clearly was not working), Die Another Day (2006, 2007 SP) and his Metallica LP the last two seasons. Much as I like All For You, I was glad to hear that he'll likely be doing two new programs next season; I prefer skaters to challenge themselves and bring out new stuff. I remember watching Sale/Pelletier in SLC and thinking that as well as they can skate Love Story, they should have done something else.

I'm glad Dube/Davison repeated their LP, though, for my own selfish reasons: I'd never had the chance to see it before, and it was really enjoyable.

 

[Winnipeg]

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There are complaints that FS is becoming less and less popular with TV audiences. Perhaps seeing the same programs from the same skaters over and over again has something to do with it (and I am talking about repeated SPs as well, in this case).[/QUOTE]



I doubt it. :frown2:

Have you ever listened to a song over and over again because you like it? AND turned the channel immediately when you hear a song that you disllike? I suggest most audiences prefer an interesting program skated well than a new program just for the sake of a new program. The average tv viewer would not likely even remember the program other than the music..........

I think the results from Worlds speak for themselves.

After reading through several threads on this board, I anticipate that whatever the Canadian skaters do next year, you will find something to explain away any positive results. Sounds like sour grapes IMO.hwell:

Secondly, the changing of a program is MORE than just the music and theme. It means chaging choreography and moves and I have seen many past skaters who have a 'new program' but it looks the same as last year only skated to a different tune...........................

 

[blue dog]

Honestly, I am probably in the minority with this, but I like it when a skater reuses a program. I like to see where the skater has matured with it. When Michelle brought back Rach, she was skating as a woman--she had previously skated it as a young woman, but at the 2002 Olympics I fell in love with the program as if it was brand new. The same with Jamie and David--the first time Love Story came out, they were two individuals, two friends...then, in 2002, they were lovers.

There is nothing wrong with reprising a program, whether it is in two consecutive years, or two non-consecutive years, as long as the skater grows with it.

Of course, it gets old if someone does it for three years straight:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3luwx6ANmss
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IpW6gdwd4YM
I can't find his Albertville Olympic LP version--but I'm sure he would've used it again in Lillehammer, too.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I think it's perfectly reasonable, especially for the early career of a young skater, to have a free skate that is over-ambitious to challenge them to the next level. Chan's FS at Worlds didn't even have the same jump layout he had used all season, because he was trying to add a 3Axel combo to be challenged to the next level.

Figure skating championships are not entertainment: it's not Champions on Ice where people expect the performers to be professional.

 

[chuckm]

I think it's perfectly reasonable, especially for the early career of a young skater, to have a free skate that is over-ambitious to challenge them to the next level. Chan's FS at Worlds didn't even have the same jump layout he had used all season, because he was trying to add a 3Axel combo to be challenged to the next level.

Chan didn't add the axel combination until right before Worlds, and it completely messed him up. He missed the axel combo and then went on with the original choreography, which meant that one of his later combinations didn't count. Now does this mean he will keep the program for a third year because he didn't do it correctly with the 3A combo? I sure hope that is not the case, because he is young and should be experimenting with different types of music.

Figure skating championships are not entertainment: it's not Champions on Ice where people expect the performers to be professional.

Eligible skaters are more technically proficient than professionals, but they are in the process of developing their expression, and IMO, it makes much more sense for them to branch out with different types of music instead of using the same programs over and over to make them technically cleaner (and that usually doesn't happen anyway, Jeff Buttle notwithstanding). SPs can be repeated if technical precision is the goal, but the FS should be more than correct technical elements; it should also represent expressive skating. Sticking with the same programs doesn't help the skater explore other musical options.

 

[vintagefigureskater]

I think it's perfectly reasonable, especially for the early career of a young skater, to have a free skate that is over-ambitious to challenge them to the next level. Chan's FS at Worlds didn't even have the same jump layout he had used all season, because he was trying to add a 3Axel combo to be challenged to the next level.

IIRC, Patrick’s program was intended to be used for 2 seasons. This is a very common practice with younger skaters. Some of the kids I skate with have had the same program/music for 2 – 3 years. Their coaches just add the necessary time and elements as they move up through the levels. By year 3, the skater and everyone else at the rink is *quite* ready for something new, LOL. I expect that we’ll see new programs from Patrick every year now that he’s older.