Who should consider changing coaches and/or choreographers?

[solani]

psusanne, thanks for your thoughts. As I said, I don't HATE the LP music--or even the costume--but I think she could do better. I think what she had was "OK" for this year, but I want to see her evolve. There are so many music choices that would still have that light feeling that she likes but would show her in a more mature way as she gets older and perhaps challenge her a bit as an artist.

I do admire you for sticking up for her though. The poor girl has really gotten hammered for her choices. Weir's comment that her program was not how you want to end a competition was especially harsh, and I thought unwarranted.

Oh, she definitly has room to grow artistically and technically. With all the growing she did this year everybody around her maybe just tried to play it safe.
And I think that she looked comfortable with her own (or her team's) choices, specially when you compare her to f.e. Gracie (who is just not the ideal Lori Nichol type skater).
And Weir was only grievously offended by the costume. At least that's what I think.

 

[Watermelondrea]

Annas coach, like Elena, has stuck with her since VERY beginning. Its prollu hard for Anna to leave someone like that. She should get someone carroll or morozov. The problem is like Russian Gymnastics. They don't want any outside help. Only Russian coaches are allowed to coach Russian girls, and that's why were seeing pretty much jumping machines. There's no real originality, and its becoming a race of being at the right time and place. Look at lipnitskaia, she an Olympic champ with a world silver, no one else will have the honor of saying that for now. What i will say, is that they need to fire tarasova. She is the valentina rodionenko of fs, and un fortunately, anna has made herself the anastasia grishina of figure skating. Its likely that well never see anna again at worlds or euros UNLESS, and I really hope she does this, switch NOCS to ukraine.

 

[sunnystars]

SoYoun Park (coach yes, choreographer maybe)

Soyoun
Let's keep DW for now and see how he challenges her. Definite yes for a new coach and maybe an artistic advisor as well. Happy that Yuna is helping her and all but she's quite busy with her graduate studies, sponsoring duties, and all the other things she's doing.

Liza T.
I don't agree with the consensus of Liza needing a new choreographer. I think he's working well with what Liza has now. I do wonder if some of his choreo got removed or replaced to fit the COP scoring and Liza's capabilities. In Shae-lynn's TSL interview, she did imply that the choreo from the competitive programs doesn't equal to the choreo made during the summer.

Also, Liza did work with foreign choreographers like DW and JButt. That move didn't really work in Mishin's favour. I do have a soft spot on her Love Story SP and her Malaguena LP.

Gracie
I think Gracie needs a new choreographer. Yes, Lori gave her the intracies that we want from a skater but the packaging is just :no:. Idk why but would love for her to get a dramatic program. Maybe the drama will help her too She needs someone that can tap into what she likes. I'm on the fence for getting a new coach since FC did help her out with skating skills and speed. Maybe he just needs to back away from Gracie's packaging? Like give her more "artistic" freedom and just give her tips on her performance.

Nam
Nam needs to get a new choreographer or polish up more. His junior-ish packaging is detracting him from his potential.

Anna P.
Anna P. with Inna G? I think training along side Elena and maybe Ade can push her to work better. Plus they give a good friendly competitive environment and some CSKA political clout. A win-win situation, I would say.

Adelina
Oh and Gleb Savchenko for Ade as her choreographer. He can give her a program that can suit her to a T in a more tasteful and appropriate manner. Plus get some fashion consultation with her DWTS styling team. She's been looking more fabulous since the start of the show. :agree:

Others:

Tuttberidze's skaters to get a jump specialist to work on their jumps. Their packaging and PCS qualities are fine but it's going to be tough on the jumping side when puberty is knocking on their doors.

Chinese pairs to work with DW again?Marina's work last year with Sui/Han and Yu/Jin didn't really click to me....

 

[sunnystars]

Annas coach, like Elena, has stuck with her since VERY beginning. Its prollu hard for Anna to leave someone like that. She should get someone carroll or morozov. The problem is like Russian Gymnastics. They don't want any outside help. Only Russian coaches are allowed to coach Russian girls, and that's why were seeing pretty much jumping machines. There's no real originality, and its becoming a race of being at the right time and place. Look at lipnitskaia, she an Olympic champ with a world silver, no one else will have the honor of saying that for now. What i will say, is that they need to fire tarasova. She is the valentina rodionenko of fs, and un fortunately, anna has made herself the anastasia grishina of figure skating. Its likely that well never see anna again at worlds or euros UNLESS, and I really hope she does this, switch NOCS to ukraine.

The problem of Russian WAG = the Rodionenkos :scowl:

 

[invisiblespiral]

The problem of Russian WAG = the Rodionenkos :scowl:

True. As for choreographer/coach changes, I think we shouldn't judge them on limited information, but...

 

[dress]

Soyoun
Let's keep DW for now and see how he challenges her. Definite yes for a new coach and maybe an artistic advisor as well. Happy that Yuna is helping her and all but she's quite busy with her graduate studies, sponsoring duties, and all the other things she's doing.

Liza T.
I don't agree with the consensus of Liza needing a new choreographer. I think he's working well with what Liza has now. I do wonder if some of his choreo got removed or replaced to fit the COP scoring and Liza's capabilities. In Shae-lynn's TSL interview, she did imply that the choreo from the competitive programs doesn't equal to the choreo made during the summer.

Also, Liza did work with foreign choreographers like DW and JButt. That move didn't really work in Mishin's favour. I do have a soft spot on her Love Story SP and her Malaguena LP.

Gracie
I think Gracie needs a new choreographer. Yes, Lori gave her the intracies that we want from a skater but the packaging is just :no:. Idk why but would love for her to get a dramatic program. Maybe the drama will help her too She needs someone that can tap into what she likes. I'm on the fence for getting a new coach since FC did help her out with skating skills and speed. Maybe he just needs to back away from Gracie's packaging? Like give her more "artistic" freedom and just give her tips on her performance.

Nam
Nam needs to get a new choreographer or polish up more. His junior-ish packaging is detracting him from his potential.

Anna P.
Anna P. with Inna G? I think training along side Elena and maybe Ade can push her to work better. Plus they give a good friendly competitive environment and some CSKA political clout. A win-win situation, I would say.

Adelina
Oh and Gleb Savchenko for Ade as her choreographer. He can give her a program that can suit her to a T in a more tasteful and appropriate manner. Plus get some fashion consultation with her DWTS styling team. She's been looking more fabulous since the start of the show. :agree:

Others:

Tuttberidze's skaters to get a jump specialist to work on their jumps. Their packaging and PCS qualities are fine but it's going to be tough when puberty is knocking on their doors.

Chinese pairs to work with DW again?Marina's work last year with Sui/Han and Yu/Jin didn't really click to me....

Nam is 16 years old. I think we will see a more mature package next year. He grew up a lot this year.

 

[BlackPack]

Just curious... how do people know that Frank is the direct cause of Gracie's problems this season? Isn't the problem herself, i.e. not strong enough mental game?

 

[invisiblespiral]

Just curious... how do people know that Frank is the direct cause of Gracie's problems this season? Isn't the problem herself, i.e. not strong enough mental game?

I think we're talking more about her programs?

 

[solani]

I think he's part of the problem, I remember Lori Nichol saying, that she works with skaters from a very young age on. And that's not true with Gracie, so Frank must have thought it to be a good idea. But it's very likely that he's already realized that.

 

[BlackPack]

So you're saying Frank "packaged" her poorly? He is the reason she fell on her jumps? I find it amazing Frank is being blamed.

 

[BlackPack]

I think we're talking more about her programs?

Well... her programs are no more saccharine or princess-y than Ashley's or any other female skater's programs. And these programs have been well-rewarded when skated clean.

 

[rain]

There are a whole pile of skaters that I'd love to see get some good choreography:

1. Tuktamysheva — she can do way better
2. Paul/Islam — They are an incredibly talented pair with the potential to shoot up the standings like P/C, but the FD situation this season tanked them. Get some good material guys.
3. Gold — Just in general, no more POTO please, but also, she didn't seem to really connect well to this music.
4. Kovtun/Voronov — the most choreographically boring programs ever.
5. The Shibs' FD was pleasant but dull. It hampered them all season. Also, if they want to stay with Zoueva that's their choice but they need a technical specialist too because levels were also a problem all season.

 

[solani]

So you're saying Frank "packaged" her poorly? He is the reason she fell on her jumps? I find it amazing Frank is being blamed.

No, definitly not poorly. They tried something and I think it didn't turn out to be as good as they'd expected. That can happen. Or maybe it will be far better next season with the same team because they know each other better. And yes, she scored very well with these programs ... but to me it looked like she was emotionally detached from her programs. Anyway, I don't think that Gracie should leave Frank.

 

[Barb]

Shibs new coreographer or only Scali
Gracie new coreographer
Liza T. new coreographer
Anna P. new coach and coreographer
Elena R. URGENT new coreographer.

 

[Crossover]

Sergei Voronov — I thought his SP to Dance Macabre was good, but his long program might have contained the most disjointed mix of music cuts ever! His ISU bio lists Zhulin as his choreographer—did he really create that LP? I think the move to Eteri's group for coaching was a good one, but I'd like to see him with a different choreographer.

Really? I think his SP could top in the criteria titled the most terrible work among all top-level men's SP progroms ; especially how ridiculous it looks with the the arm movements in the opening. His FS program doesn't help him either. In the FS with the badly chopped music editing, all he could do is to JUMP! That's why he couldn't earn higher transitions and choreography marks. The two musics do not work for high-level competitors like Voronov. He has a character and personality, so I hope he find a better choreographer for him ASAP, perhaps among American or Canadian choreographers.

 

[Weathergal]

Really? I think his SP is a terrible work among all the men's SP choreography; how ridiculous it is with the opening with the arm movements. His FS program doesn't help him either. In the worst FS with the badly chopped music editing, all he could do is to JUMP! That's why he couldn't earn higher transitions and choreography marks. The two musics do not work for high-level competitors like Voronov. He has a character and personality, so I hope he needs a better choreographer ASAP.

Overall I enjoyed his SP well enough (thought it was good not great), but I agree with you about the opening arm movements. Rather superfluous.

But we certainly agree on the FS! I have very eclectic taste in music, but I wouldn't combine it all into one program...

 

[BlackPack]

I think Voronov is a limited skater and competitor, and no genius coach/choreographer can make him into a power machine like Plushenko.

 

[silverfoxes]

I think Voronov is a limited skater and competitor, and no genius coach/choreographer can make him into a power machine like Plushenko.

I don't agree with this at all. You do realize he was injured at Worlds? He was having an excellent season until then. As for "limited skater" - in what way?

 

[rollerblade]

Although Tarasova would probably provide much improved choreography for Liza, if she goes that route we should all give up any hopes of better costumes. I'd expect Tarasova to cover her in feathers and garish colors.

No worries. The bold and dramatic colors suits Liza.

 

[humbaba]

I read so much crabbing about how Frank had ruined Gracie that I looked up her pre-Frank vids to see for myself. I concluded that before the move to Carroll, Gracie had issues with inconsistency, flailing arms, a stiff upper body, and some truly awful programs. On the whole, I think Carroll has helped her a lot. Gracie's upper body movement is much better. She may not have found herself artistically yet, but her performance quality is better and her programs are an improvement over those she had before (the techno sugar plum fairy program was ). Frank may not have solved Gracie's problems with jump consistency, but he didn't create them either. I do think Gracie's jumps were a little higher and had a little more spring two or three years ago. But Gracie has matured and filled out a bit. Mother nature, not Frank's tinkering, may be why she lost a tad of height in her jumps. Her jumps are still great when she hits them, though. Gracie should stay with Frank. Not sure about a new choreographer.

I don't seem to have a lot of company on this, but I think Pogo's style and artistry have improved. Last year I found her almost unwatchable because of her frantic, flailing movements. This year, except for the overwrought vocals in her SP, I enjoyed Anna's skating. Someone must be helping her. I'm not sure if Pogo's coach is the dragonlady some think her to be, or if she's being misjudged because of her demeanor and RBF.

I wonder if the Shibs ought to move to Platov. I don't think he has a high-ranked senior team at the moment. Just have a feeling that might be a good match.