I don't think that Yuna and Mao had to work their way up to higher PCS. I think that PCS just became more inflated over time. It was really kind of predictable that this happened. I remember at a former job I had, they instituted a performance rating system from 1-5. At first, 5's were rare and 3 was considered a good score. After a couple of years, a 5 meant you were doing well and a 3 was like an F.
Who will break Yuna Kim's record and when?
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I don't think that Yuna and Mao had to work their way up to higher PCS. I think that PCS just became more inflated over time. It was really kind of predictable that this happened. I remember at a former job I had, they instituted a performance rating system from 1-5. At first, 5's were rare and 3 was considered a good score. After a couple of years, a 5 meant you were doing well and a 3 was like an F.
This is why the ranking system that was used under 6.0 worked better on the second mark. The mark itself was not as important as where the skater ranked in comparison to others in the competition.
eace:
The ISU might not call them World Records, but if you can find it on http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com it surely must be a world record!ISU don't call them official World Records and with a good reasonSo you're wrong
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- Feb 17, 2010
Just for mere curiosity, I re-calculated Yuna's Vancouver marks with the current BV and GOE scale and it turned out to be 144.76 (BV:60.07, TES:73.00, PCS:71.76. I converted SpSq4 and SlSt3 to ChSq1 and StSq4 respectively which decreases BV by 0.8. I haven't doubled checked, not gonna guarantee the correctness though). Well, I don't know what this means, I think it still can't be compared directly to the current score because of other changes happened over the time, but it's an interesting fact to know
She would have gotten ~76 in PCS for than performance if she skated it now, so I think the score would be comparable.
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- Feb 25, 2014
Probably not. Yes, it was flawed. The valuations are still flawed. 3A+2T less than 3Lz+3T? 3Lz+3T worth essentially as much as 3F+3Lo? That is just crazy. Not to mention that 3T and 3S got increase? That makes no sense whatsoever. FIG seems to have their valuations to have some semblance of sense, even in terms of when they do revaluations. ISU just does them randomly and on a whim. Would make more sense for them to change base values after a quad ends...
Then how much increase do you think it's fair for 3A-2T? Let's not forget, having 3A itself is a huge advantage especially in the SP (at least it is now).
3F+3Lo is difficult to execute due to 3Lo in the back, but you seem to discount the difficulty of 3Lz itself. 3Lz, difficulty wise, is 2nd most difficult jump to execute due to outside edge.
And did you know Yuna was the only skater to execute 3Lz+3T in both SP and LP back in 2010?, the same goes to how Mao was the only one who did 3A-2T? Considering this, I do think it was "fair" that 3Lz+3T was worth more than 3A-2T if you're talking in terms of difficulty. After all, it's two triples vs one triple, and only two women were able to properly execute these combinations.
What is so flawed about Vancouver? Honestly, I think Yuna's team was smart to use CoP to its maximum potential, vs Mao who was not able to use it in her advantage due to her jump problems with the 3Lz and 3S. Yes 3A is difficult, and Mao fully deserve all the praise for doing it 3 times in one competition, but the lack of 3Lz and 3S shouldn't be avoided.
If I were you, I wouldn't be mad how 3Lz+3T is worth as same as 3F+3Lo, rather I would be questioning how 3T-3T is now worth much closer to 3F+3Lo.
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- Sep 22, 2010
My point was she got 148 under the new rules for GOE, two 2Axels and such with a program that was easier than Vancouver, so there's absolutely NO excuse that different rules are inhibiting today's ladies skaters from breaking her record.
The new rules overall do not make it harder. They made GOEs lower but the base values for 3axel, 3loop, 3toe and 3Salchow have increased since Vancouver. There's also a new 10% bonus in the SP. And then PCS overall have trended way up as well. The judges are practically begging for a new record. It's up to the ladies to step up.
The new rules overall do not make it harder. They made GOEs lower but the base values for 3axel, 3loop, 3toe and 3Salchow have increased since Vancouver. There's also a new 10% bonus in the SP. And then PCS overall have trended way up as well. The judges are practically begging for a new record. It's up to the ladies to step up.
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While also subsequently breaking the Internet
I have a question for anyone who has seen Yuna perform live. As great as she was, I never thought she had good spirals. Her back leg never seemed to be fully extended and she didn't have very good turnout. I thought this was weird because there were other elements, like her final combination spin that showed she had good flexibility and all of her programs had great style and choreography.
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- Mar 24, 2015
One question I have is, can anyone break the record with a 6 triple program? Medvedeva seems like a valid contender because she's doing two triple triples in her free skate, with one in the bonus---along with all her tanos. What made Yuna's skating special though was the quality of the elements, and the overall presentation. I think Medvedeva has enough quality in her skating, that if she hits everything at Worlds---even with a flutz---she could probably break the record. I would say the same of Mao, but I think her weakness on toe jumps will prohibit her from getting the GOE required. If Medvedeva doesn't do it, I think it is inevitable among the current top Juniors: Tsurskaya, and some of the Korean & Japanese Juniors---who seem to have faultless technique and more advanced combinations than we've ever seen.
I think as long as you backload 6 triple program, it's certainly possible.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I think spiral flexibility and spin flexibility are very different things, and few excel at both. Michelle Kwan had outstanding spirals but mediocre positions on her spins, while Irina had great flexibility in the spins but average extension on her spirals.
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- Mar 23, 2010
Indeed... The ISU judges will. :sarcasm:
How can anyone not notice they have been gagging for it for the past 4 years since ISU apparently owed Russia big favour since WC2011 bail out (Alena LEONOVA = 4th that year, then = 2nd WC'12, and check out the judges panel for those 2 years, and then 2 years after Sochi = Overwhelmingly European, even when last 2 years, with the WCs took place in Asia = 100% European judges. Which elite ISU events out of all has the biggest inflation? The European championships.) ... problem is no Russian ladies were consistent enough to step up to the plate beyond puberty, or make it happen at the right event, now to point the farce that became the PCS. Literally very little accountability in quality, versatility, reputation (to a point) and longevity which were previously important factors in the past to mark artistry and made ladies all about quantity and COP smarts, 2nd half bonusess. They have increased the score 3T3T in 2nd half by virtually 0.44 points since Vancouver days hence depreciate every difficult 3/3 combos by 0.44 on relative terms, except with the 3A. Lessen punishment for poorer quality like edges, and ur, and GOEs really is just another PCS nowdays (Satoko's tiny 3lz3t hops = Gracie = Anna's huge powerful ones. While 3lz3t value still equals 2 jumps of 3lz, 3t, that also shares the same range of GOEs as easiest combo 3T3T. How can anyone not see how ridiculous they tried to bend the rule to undermine the 3lz3t.
Tech panel have more power than ever to determines more the outcome through calls and levels lenience or inconsistency, so it matters less how skaters actually skated, or how impartial the panel apparently can be especially if the results are close. How can anyone not see this has been going on for a while for obvious reasons? Had a different set of players in the sport with different arsenal of particulars, the rules may not have changed as drastic. I bet with the Eurocentric guards at ISU (after Cinquanta and Alexander Lakernik leaves), the sports, its rules and current trends will come to an end, may be a huge overhaul. No more anonymity. Skaters/coaches/peers should able to challenge the decisions more. PCS simply isn't working as it should, separate those that really worked hard at developing and becoming the worlds very bests to the newbies immitators.
How can anyone not notice they have been gagging for it for the past 4 years since ISU apparently owed Russia big favour since WC2011 bail out (Alena LEONOVA = 4th that year, then = 2nd WC'12, and check out the judges panel for those 2 years, and then 2 years after Sochi = Overwhelmingly European, even when last 2 years, with the WCs took place in Asia = 100% European judges. Which elite ISU events out of all has the biggest inflation? The European championships.) ... problem is no Russian ladies were consistent enough to step up to the plate beyond puberty, or make it happen at the right event, now to point the farce that became the PCS. Literally very little accountability in quality, versatility, reputation (to a point) and longevity which were previously important factors in the past to mark artistry and made ladies all about quantity and COP smarts, 2nd half bonusess. They have increased the score 3T3T in 2nd half by virtually 0.44 points since Vancouver days hence depreciate every difficult 3/3 combos by 0.44 on relative terms, except with the 3A. Lessen punishment for poorer quality like edges, and ur, and GOEs really is just another PCS nowdays (Satoko's tiny 3lz3t hops = Gracie = Anna's huge powerful ones. While 3lz3t value still equals 2 jumps of 3lz, 3t, that also shares the same range of GOEs as easiest combo 3T3T. How can anyone not see how ridiculous they tried to bend the rule to undermine the 3lz3t.
Tech panel have more power than ever to determines more the outcome through calls and levels lenience or inconsistency, so it matters less how skaters actually skated, or how impartial the panel apparently can be especially if the results are close. How can anyone not see this has been going on for a while for obvious reasons? Had a different set of players in the sport with different arsenal of particulars, the rules may not have changed as drastic. I bet with the Eurocentric guards at ISU (after Cinquanta and Alexander Lakernik leaves), the sports, its rules and current trends will come to an end, may be a huge overhaul. No more anonymity. Skaters/coaches/peers should able to challenge the decisions more. PCS simply isn't working as it should, separate those that really worked hard at developing and becoming the worlds very bests to the newbies immitators.
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- Jul 9, 2014
I don't think Kim's quality of the elements was that good, e.g. her spins are not as good as Evgenia's and Kim can't even do an Ina Bauer. Evgenia has better presentation and posture, and Kim also lips. Not Asada, she has too many underrotation problems.
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- Jul 9, 2014
This is completely true!! I saw Irina at Worlds in 2001. She was back stage and she was in Center Splits with her chest Flat on the ground. She is extremely flexible. I guess it's all in the technique.
That's not the best example of Ina Bauer. That's more like lifting her arms and yawning. Yuna can't do a biellmann spin either. What I meant to say is that Yuna is not very flexible.
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