- Joined
- Dec 31, 2003
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Why is Ice Dancing hated so much???
- Thread starter icedancingnut31
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
On Ice Dancing...
The issue I've had with Ice Dancing over the last several years is that the results have largely been pre-determined. I hope the new judging system as well as some "hopeful" cleanup over the last year could change that for me. But...if the top teams are the top teams, and will end up in a certain order no matter how they skate, then why watch the competition? That would be like *knowing* who's going to win the Superbowl.
I sincerely hope that situation is changing. Otherwise, the only reason for me to tune in would be for VERY entertaining commercials, which has not become part of televised ice skating *yet*.
DG
The issue I've had with Ice Dancing over the last several years is that the results have largely been pre-determined. I hope the new judging system as well as some "hopeful" cleanup over the last year could change that for me. But...if the top teams are the top teams, and will end up in a certain order no matter how they skate, then why watch the competition? That would be like *knowing* who's going to win the Superbowl.
I sincerely hope that situation is changing. Otherwise, the only reason for me to tune in would be for VERY entertaining commercials, which has not become part of televised ice skating *yet*.
DG
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
"predetermined"??? I think the results have in fact been surprising, and are changing from event from event. 02 GPF, D&V medalled over FM&M, and come on, B&K won. I would hardly call that predetermined. Then at the Olys, I wouldn't say that was predetermined. L&A won bronze at Euros, but then was 4/5 split to win silver. B&K could have won bronze, but they fell on a simple cartwheel lift. Then worlds, ChaSaks won bronze with 3rd in the FD. Hardly expected. Then you have last season. DenSta were 4th at SC, but then won Bofrost. The were behind N&K at GPF, but were ahead at Worlds. There, B&K won. Hardly expected!
Explain again, how results have been largely "predetermined." I fail to see your logic in this.
TV
Explain again, how results have been largely "predetermined." I fail to see your logic in this.
TV
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Up to the last couple of years or so the judging was predetermined. I have no proof but you could just see it. I think it was better last year or at least this year, so far. I do hope it improves. I guess we will just have to say that that is my opinion.
I don't think it's as predetermined as it was for a while; then again under the COP I found it extremely odd that despite the overhaul of the judging system, it was still pretty much the Usual Suspects on the medal podium. I do think Dance does tend to be the political dumping ground category, however. BUT in defense of the judges -- it's a HARD category to judge correctly. All those steps (in the compolsuries), in unison, at that speed, plus the style preferences in the free dance.....
Now as to why it's hated, I think there's a couple of reasons for that. First of all, it (basically) doesn't have all the spectactular jumps and wild technical tricks that hold a lot of spectator interest, especially in North America; European audiences tend to appreciate the nuances more. Secondly -- I think some of the best skating around is a really outstanding free dance. However, I haven't seen a really outstanding free dance in quite a few years. Part of this I blame on the rules and regulations over the last decade; we saw a lot of great stuff in the 80s but over the last several years everyone decided to imitate Anissina & Peizerat and do these overly flowing dramatic dances that basically all look alike. (I'm not knocking Anissina & Piezerat, they did a lot of great stuff, but the tendency was to imitate the style and not the substance). What ice dancing really needs right now is another Torvill & Dean or Duchesnay & Duchesnay to push the envelope and set the scene for some really exciting stuff again. Bourne & Kraatz were thisclose, but personally I found that as the years went on, their dances, tho well performed, got less and less interesting.
Now as to why it's hated, I think there's a couple of reasons for that. First of all, it (basically) doesn't have all the spectactular jumps and wild technical tricks that hold a lot of spectator interest, especially in North America; European audiences tend to appreciate the nuances more. Secondly -- I think some of the best skating around is a really outstanding free dance. However, I haven't seen a really outstanding free dance in quite a few years. Part of this I blame on the rules and regulations over the last decade; we saw a lot of great stuff in the 80s but over the last several years everyone decided to imitate Anissina & Peizerat and do these overly flowing dramatic dances that basically all look alike. (I'm not knocking Anissina & Piezerat, they did a lot of great stuff, but the tendency was to imitate the style and not the substance). What ice dancing really needs right now is another Torvill & Dean or Duchesnay & Duchesnay to push the envelope and set the scene for some really exciting stuff again. Bourne & Kraatz were thisclose, but personally I found that as the years went on, their dances, tho well performed, got less and less interesting.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I've seen too many ridiculous, heavy-handed, what-the-hell-was-that dramatic dances. IMO, there have also been too many hideous, what-the-hell-were-they-thinking costumes and judgements.
I must admit, in my youth, I was permanently scarred by a program that had the woman repeatedly shooting her partner. I don't know how many times he threw himself on the ice and died. I just wanted him to stay down.
I must admit, in my youth, I was permanently scarred by a program that had the woman repeatedly shooting her partner. I don't know how many times he threw himself on the ice and died. I just wanted him to stay down.
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I've only been watching Ice Dancing since the 2002 Olympics, and I've been playing catch up thanks to soulseek and rinkside.
I really enjoy Ice Dancing and think it does get underrated a lot of times. I also see people complain about the results being pre-determined, but I find myself agreeing with the judges' results most of the time.
I really enjoy Ice Dancing and think it does get underrated a lot of times. I also see people complain about the results being pre-determined, but I find myself agreeing with the judges' results most of the time.
ITA with JohnnyCoop that some of the finest skating around--edging, speed, deep soft knees, body line--can be found in great ice dance programs. But I think ice dancing is a conundrum in that it needs rules to be a sport yet too many rules can make it less interesting. Of course not enough rules and we get everything from ballroom dancing to Martha Graham on ice. So it's difficult to find the right balance. Then it has been verified that some judges conspired for a certain outcome at the '98 Olympics--it's on tape.
But ice dancing is also a very young sport, only about 25 years as an Olympic sport, not sure how long at Worlds. All sports go through growing pains but especially ones that have a lot of subjectivity to them, like ice dancing.
I also agree that it's more appreciated by Russians, Europeans, and Canadians than US and Japanese fans. Probably something in the national psyches and cultures. I love great ice dancing, but I come from a dance background. Even so, I've been at events where I've seen great ice dancing live and US audiences roar with approval when they see the real deal done well. Unfortunately, that's all too rare. But greatness should be rare, IMO. I guess people would be happy to see more "darn good" ice dancing. I think like anything else, it goes in cycles and right now with the Russian ice dancers losing dominance and no other country rushing to fill in, ice dancing is in a slump that happens to be in the middle of a general figure skating slump. At the '92 Olympics, ice dancing was one of the most exciting events and the choreography and performances of the top three teams were each riveting, artistic, and had both skill and depth. Kind of like great wines, I guess. Some years all the elements just work together and no one knows why.
Rgirl
But ice dancing is also a very young sport, only about 25 years as an Olympic sport, not sure how long at Worlds. All sports go through growing pains but especially ones that have a lot of subjectivity to them, like ice dancing.
I also agree that it's more appreciated by Russians, Europeans, and Canadians than US and Japanese fans. Probably something in the national psyches and cultures. I love great ice dancing, but I come from a dance background. Even so, I've been at events where I've seen great ice dancing live and US audiences roar with approval when they see the real deal done well. Unfortunately, that's all too rare. But greatness should be rare, IMO. I guess people would be happy to see more "darn good" ice dancing. I think like anything else, it goes in cycles and right now with the Russian ice dancers losing dominance and no other country rushing to fill in, ice dancing is in a slump that happens to be in the middle of a general figure skating slump. At the '92 Olympics, ice dancing was one of the most exciting events and the choreography and performances of the top three teams were each riveting, artistic, and had both skill and depth. Kind of like great wines, I guess. Some years all the elements just work together and no one knows why.
Rgirl
42"Definitions of hideous: The horrid polka-dot dresses worn by Tanith Belbin & Naomi Lang."
I didn't see that much of Belbin's, but I did see Lang's, and I gotta say, that was quite a fashion statement. Said statement being "I didn't actually withdraw because I was injured, I withdrew because I actually wore this dress in public in a room with LIGHTS ON and am now so emberassed that I can't show my face for the rest of the season...." This is what happens when you shop at the Ukrainian team's yard sale.
I didn't see that much of Belbin's, but I did see Lang's, and I gotta say, that was quite a fashion statement. Said statement being "I didn't actually withdraw because I was injured, I withdrew because I actually wore this dress in public in a room with LIGHTS ON and am now so emberassed that I can't show my face for the rest of the season...." This is what happens when you shop at the Ukrainian team's yard sale.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
In the figure skating world, ice dance is not hated. However, I think next to figures, it is the most misunderstood discipline in skating by the general public.
There are many dimenssions to ice dance. First of all it takes a lot of energy and great basic skating skills to perform ice dance - especially at the competitive level. Second, ice dancers spend hours and hours perfecting even the tiniest steps of a program or compulsory dance. It's very tedious!!!! They make it look easy, but believe me it's not!!! It's almost akin to practicing figures over and over. They have to achieve the ability to skate very deep edges. This takes many hours of practice, practice, practice. If anyone out there has ever learned even the "Dutch Waltz" (the most basic compulsory ice dance) you know what I am talking about.
There are no jumps or throws in ice dance, but it too can be exciting and interesting to watch. The footwork alone is awesome.
I agree some of the costumes of late have been "over the top" and sometimes distracts from the actual performance, but this is because each couple is trying to out do the other and catch the judges attention. How would you like to have to judge the same dances over and over? When it comes time for the free dance each couple tries to be different.
I have seen some wonderful ice dancers over the years and some wonderful programs. Ice dance has to be appreciated for what it is. It's all about footwork and swing rolls and dance positions. Some of the best skaters in the world are ice dancers.
No, I don't think ice dance is "hated" just misunderstood.
http://alexeiprincess.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cdbk2.jpg
Shae-Lynn and Victor
There are many dimenssions to ice dance. First of all it takes a lot of energy and great basic skating skills to perform ice dance - especially at the competitive level. Second, ice dancers spend hours and hours perfecting even the tiniest steps of a program or compulsory dance. It's very tedious!!!! They make it look easy, but believe me it's not!!! It's almost akin to practicing figures over and over. They have to achieve the ability to skate very deep edges. This takes many hours of practice, practice, practice. If anyone out there has ever learned even the "Dutch Waltz" (the most basic compulsory ice dance) you know what I am talking about.
There are no jumps or throws in ice dance, but it too can be exciting and interesting to watch. The footwork alone is awesome.
I agree some of the costumes of late have been "over the top" and sometimes distracts from the actual performance, but this is because each couple is trying to out do the other and catch the judges attention. How would you like to have to judge the same dances over and over? When it comes time for the free dance each couple tries to be different.
I have seen some wonderful ice dancers over the years and some wonderful programs. Ice dance has to be appreciated for what it is. It's all about footwork and swing rolls and dance positions. Some of the best skaters in the world are ice dancers.
No, I don't think ice dance is "hated" just misunderstood.
http://alexeiprincess.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cdbk2.jpg
Shae-Lynn and Victor
Icedancingnut: THOSE PICS ARE PRICELESS!! And so much for my theory that Dubreil & Lauzon can look good in just about anything!!
I remember one time I sent a pic of Lobacheva & Averbukh to my cousin and 5 minutes later I got an e-mail back from her saying. "Oh, my. She looks like a fishing lure." If I could find the link again in under an hour and a half, I'd post it -- but every one that you posted beats that picture at least tenfold anyway.
I remember one time I sent a pic of Lobacheva & Averbukh to my cousin and 5 minutes later I got an e-mail back from her saying. "Oh, my. She looks like a fishing lure." If I could find the link again in under an hour and a half, I'd post it -- but every one that you posted beats that picture at least tenfold anyway.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
My favorite discipline in skating is Mens but that does not mean I hate/dislike ice dancing. I believe the biggest reason for the lack of interest or support in the US towards Dance is simply that we haven't had any World medalists in the sport since the '80's. At the '84 Olympics, for instance, we placed 4th, 5th & 10th. Blumberg & Seibert were our last medalists at Worlds, placing 3rd in '83, '84 & '85. If any of our current dance teams medal at Worlds you'll see a change in attitude towards Ice Dance.
I sort of like dance but I'm sort of turned off by it. There just seems to be far too many teams who think that retina-burning flourescent colors are the way to go when it's a rock-and-roll theme. I don't know if that holds true in other OD themes, but I have noticed serious issues with OD costume color this year. Color is just one of the many costume issues.
I'm also turned off by the over-the-top gestures and expressions. I just don't deal well with perpetually surprised people.
I just wish you could have dance teams that didn't train in clown school first.
I think that's why I like Lang/Tchernyschev and Denkova/Stavisky. D&S tend to go a little overboard sometimes but not all the time. For the most part, the normal human teams hold much more appeal to me.
I'm also turned off by the over-the-top gestures and expressions. I just don't deal well with perpetually surprised people.
I just wish you could have dance teams that didn't train in clown school first.
I think that's why I like Lang/Tchernyschev and Denkova/Stavisky. D&S tend to go a little overboard sometimes but not all the time. For the most part, the normal human teams hold much more appeal to me.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
If the dance flows on the ballroom floor and it is adopted so on the ice, I like it (not love it).
If it does not flow on the ballroom floor (jitterbug stuff) it seems to me to be copied by the American movie musicals. I don't like it.
Also there is the suspicion that the whole thing is rigged. You know it's kinda like "Let's make a deal".
Joe
If it does not flow on the ballroom floor (jitterbug stuff) it seems to me to be copied by the American movie musicals. I don't like it.
Also there is the suspicion that the whole thing is rigged. You know it's kinda like "Let's make a deal".
Joe
