Will the 2010 U.S. ladies Olympic team be...

[oleada]

The topic is about American skaters only. No need to mention the 5th in standings of other countries.

Who did?

Am I the only one bothered by Flatt's jumps? I did enjoy her performance in Vienna, but her jumps are quite small. Dick Button said it well when he said that she doesn't jump up - she jumps around.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Who did?

Am I the only one bothered by Flatt's jumps? I did enjoy her performance in Vienna, but her jumps are quite small. Dick Button said it well when he said that she doesn't jump up - she jumps around.

No one mentioned other skaters. That's just me being overprotective of skaters.

For instance, we have poor Flatt with little speed and small jumps. Shades of Tara, I believe.

Joe

 

[bekalc]

No one mentioned other skaters. That's just me being overprotective of skaters.

For instance, we have poor Flatt with little speed and small jumps. Shades of Tara, I believe.

Joe

I remember according to Phil Hersh, one of the reasons Tara won the Olympics because Tara skated extremely fast, whereas Michelle was extremely slow

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I remember according to Phil Hersh, one of the reasons Tara won the Olympics because Tara skated extremely fast, whereas Michelle was extremely slow

I believe Tara skated forward most of the time while giggling. Her footwork consisted of two footed forward zigzags down the ice. She could not yet edge on ice, and had to do the spiral on the flat.

And those huge jumps must have been 1/4 inch off the ice. Yet I do give her credit for rotating 3 times like Flatt.

It's a quirk of mine. She is the only skater whom I will not rush to defend.

Joe

 

[LizzieBeth]

I'm not so sure it's just a case of Caroline kicking up a little and that a little for her is a lot for others due to her flexibility. She has a hughes-esque kick up to her picking for her lutz and flip - which, i think, chuckm once both humourously and accurately described (of hughes) as a donkey kick (maybe it was horse?) which seems to knock her over onto the inside edge. In any event it does look like the hip takes a beating as it does seem like the toe jams in hard into the ice rather than the lighter touch other skaters seem to have.

Ant

I didn't look it up, but I remember it as "mule kick". I think it is quite distracting, especially when compared to skaters that don't have this high kick. Can this technique cause injury over time? Is it considered bad enough that GOEs would be lower?

 

[gkelly]

I believe Tara skated forward most of the time while giggling. Her footwork consisted of two footed forward zigzags down the ice. She could not yet edge on ice, and had to do the spiral on the flat.

Watch again. None of the above is true at all. Not even exaggerated -- flat-out false.

And those huge jumps must have been 1/4 inch off the ice.

Yes, the jumps were small, although 1/4 inch is hyperbole.

 

[attyfan]

I remember according to Phil Hersh, one of the reasons Tara won the Olympics because Tara skated extremely fast, whereas Michelle was extremely slow

I wonder what Hersh's problem was. That Tara was faster doesn't mean that Michelle was extremely slow. Michelle skated extremely well in Nagano, and it is a tribute to Tara that she was able to defeat her. In fact, Tara is the only skater since '95 to defeat a Michelle who was clean in all portions of the event

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Watch again. None of the above is true at all. Not even exaggerated -- flat-out false.

I've watched it several times. Can you bring up a youtube of that? That spiral was on the flat in a diagnol direction. The zigzag footwork down the staight away on two feet was quite obvious. Spins and jumps come easily from rollers to ice. Heavy load off the feet from switching. She came, like me, from rollers and one does not get the ice edges easily. She was not phenomenal in that respect. Her poor edges show up even more blatantly in SOI when all she could do was to try hard to keep up with her colleagues in the production numbers. (Often she was left out of the production numbers). I read in those days, that she admitted doing Kurt's choreo was difficult. Her best skating in SOI, in my opinion,was her military march which required no edges and I think that was the last we saw of her.

Sorry we disagree, but that happens between fans who don't see things exactly the same way. It happens in all sports as well as opera and ballet.

Yes, the jumps were small, although 1/4 inch is hyperbole.

True. But how else can I explain the comment made about Raechel without showing that small jumps can win Olys.

Joe

 

[gkelly]

I've watched it several times. Can you bring up a youtube of that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAFGeh1Or3E

That spiral was on the flat in a diagnol direction.

There's a right forward outside spiral at about 3:35. The depth of edge varies, but little if any of it is actually on the flat -- it definitely curves.

The zigzag footwork down the staight away on two feet was quite obvious.

I couldn't tell what you were referring to. Can you point out where this alleged zigzag footwork on two feet occurred? Maybe as a brief transition?

There is a circular step sequence about 1:50.

Can you find a step sequence in Kwan's program, BTW?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxYHnOx6gxM
[I can, but it's very easy to miss and I wouldn't really call it "footwork."]

 

[Cal Girl]

I think Tara's stature, wasnt she all of 4ft 9in at the time, may have contributed to her smaller jumps. But the girl was amazing. Maybe not a Michelle Kwan with edges and expression, but Tara had an incredible gift of landing those triples with what looked like ease. Not only that she had very fast spins and truly seemed to be enjoying her moment.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think Tara's stature, wasnt she all of 4ft 9in at the time, may have contributed to her smaller jumps. But the girl was amazing. Maybe not a Michelle Kwan with edges and expression, but Tara had an incredible gift of landing those triples with what looked like ease. Not only that she had very fast spins and truly seemed to be enjoying her moment.

One thing I have to say about Tara is that she had the Joy of Skating (Not sure how to translate that into French). In this respect, I feel sad for her for having that hip problem.

I'll get to the wonky edges once I've had a look at the youtube.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

kind of funny, eh? just jumping into the thread here a few pages later, and we're talking about someone who was a factor 12 years ago? Isn't this supposed to be a PREDICTION thread?

 

[feraina]

Joy of Skating

Joie du patinage (noun) or Joie de patiner (verb), both are ok, I think.

For me, Tara hadn't matured into an artistic (not by 1998 anyway), though she was certainly a talented athlete. And she was wicked fast! She raced through her programs, super-fast (and centered) spins, very fast rotations in the air for the jumps. I don't think Flatt resembles Tara in this respect at all.

Besides, Tara had good techniques for jumping, she jumped UP into the air, very centered. Flatt jumps AROUND herself, the jumps are very swingy, and I think that's why she has trouble checking out some of those harder jumps, like the lutz. Flatt's landings can often be wonky, and it sometimes looks under-rotated (like her 3/3 in the SP at the last national's), because her free hip is up into the air, and therefore sometimes stuck out to the side instead of checking out to the back.

 

[bekalc]

When Tara won I was so upset because I loved Kwan, and couldn't enjoy Tara's performance. Looking back later, with Tara's hip injury and all, I felt really bad because that was Tara's only shot (more than likely)

So watching her perfomance today after all of those years, helped me to truly appreciate Tara and what she brought onto the ice. One thing that impressed me was that her triple loop/triple loop was towards the middle of her program and her triple/triple sequence was right at the ends, honestly that took guts.

I wouldn't be surprised if that last triple/triple sequence was what really what did it for the judges. I mean how can you deny that?

And yes, you could see that she loved skating, and she enjoyed what she was doing. One thing I appreciated to was her coach telling her afterwards before the marks (It sounded like) what you did was incredible no matter what's decided. And Tara was all like, it was really/really good! Honestly, what's sad is that was the last Olympics were all of the medalists skated amazing. Lately the Olympics have felt like fall fests but both Michelle and Tara were amazing.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thanks feraina for the translation.

I thought Tara was a 'star' in the making and not knowing about her hip problem I would have expected her to win 2002 Olys but in 98 I did not see the finished product, although, I agreed with the judges. For me, competitions are one thing; great skating is another. Apparently, Kwan too, had the hip problem and cut her
program down to the comfort zone. I think she was under the illusion that she would win without sacrificing her hip. Not so, the gal with the joie du patinage perked up the entire audience that night. The roar of the crowd played a lot of in the scoring of those days. (Maybe in CoP, too - at least the goes.)

Well back to topic: I've listed eight contenders somewhere in this thread for the US team if placing in the Nats determines the team. Other than Kimmie, I really can't select 2 others..

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I remember according to Phil Hersh, one of the reasons Tara won the Olympics because Tara skated extremely fast, whereas Michelle was extremely slow

Here are Phil Hersh's observations on the 2006 Olympics, where he also mentions his admiration of Tara's 1998 performance.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/2006/03/index.html

 

[Mathman]

I didn't look it up, but I remember it as "mule kick". I think it is quite distracting, especially when compared to skaters that don't have this high kick. Can this technique cause injury over time? Is it considered bad enough that GOEs would be lower?

As far as I can tell there does not seem to be anything specific about this in the GOE guidelines.

But, to me, it really does mar the effect of the program, in much the same way that a wrapped leg jump (Nakano, for instance) does. It is not pretty in its own right, and it takes away from the smooth graceful flow of the program as a whole.

I really hope that Caroline is still young enough to correct it.

 

[antmanb]

When Tara won I was so upset because I loved Kwan, and couldn't enjoy Tara's performance. Looking back later, with Tara's hip injury and all, I felt really bad because that was Tara's only shot (more than likely)

So watching her perfomance today after all of those years, helped me to truly appreciate Tara and what she brought onto the ice. One thing that impressed me was that her triple loop/triple loop was towards the middle of her program and her triple/triple sequence was right at the ends, honestly that took guts.

I wouldn't be surprised if that last triple/triple sequence was what really what did it for the judges. I mean how can you deny that?

And yes, you could see that she loved skating, and she enjoyed what she was doing. One thing I appreciated to was her coach telling her afterwards before the marks (It sounded like) what you did was incredible no matter what's decided. And Tara was all like, it was really/really good! Honestly, what's sad is that was the last Olympics were all of the medalists skated amazing. Lately the Olympics have felt like fall fests but both Michelle and Tara were amazing.

And don't forget Lulu with the Bronze that was also an inspired and emotional program! 1998 is one of, if not my alltime favourite ladies podium. I can watch all three of their SPs and LPs over and over again and love them, all for different reasons.

Ant

 

[GoldMedalist]

1998 Olympics is the best Ladies podium of all time. That was really something.

I'm confident, however, that Mao + Yu-na + ? will give us something similar in the coming years.

 

[bekalc]

And don't forget Lulu with the Bronze that was also an inspired and emotional program! 1998 is one of, if not my alltime favourite ladies podium. I can watch all three of their SPs and LPs over and over again and love them, all for different reasons.

Ant

I have never forgotten about Lulu! I was cheering for her to make that podium.