Women and the Quad
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
Agree, it seems quite an ask. Several men (with 3A's) had quads in practice before one was officially landed right?
Would be surprised if it didn't take years & years for ladies to be in that sort of position at all, where it's inevitable that one will be landed sooner rather than later.
Some crazily gifted one off jumper sounds the best bet.
Read that 0.6+ seconds of air time are needed for 3A & 4T/ 4S - are many ladies getting that airtime currently?
3A requires more upper body strength, which women lack relative to men, but women who rotate fast enough could still possibly manage a quad. Also note that of the ladies who have attempted quads or talked of practice quads, the vast majority have been quad salchows (has anyone aside from Surya tried 4T?). Whereas most men who do quads start with 4T and only do 4S as a second quad, even though at fewer rotations, salchow is often taught before toe-loop (Timothy Goebel's quad sal being a notable exception). I recall reading some discussion attributing this difference to anatomical differences between males and females, something to do with centers of gravity and female hips being better suited to the swinging of the free leg in the salchow, maybe...but I don't really remember.
It's interesting that all the quad talk recently is of fans expecting either Julia or Adelina to do a 4T--perhaps we will, since they have good 3Ts. And with so many juniors tacking on 3T combos effortlessly, maybe we will see some 4T attempts in the future. But I would not be surprised if the next difficult jump attempted by a lady is a 4S instead of 3A or 4T.
Polina Shelepen mentioned landing an underrotated quad salchow, it must have been under her Eteri Tutberidze days...so I wonder if Eteri might try the salchow with Julia too. Is Courtney Hicks still training her quad?
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- Feb 13, 2014
If they can land the quad better than fixing their edge, I don't see why not.
The thing is, I am not that optimistic about quad for ladies.
These things are not mutually exclusive. Also, like Meoima said, if they can do quad better than 3Lz or 3F, why not?
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- Dec 29, 2013
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You'd get more points for doing a quad than for simply fixing an edge in a triple which usually is only -1pt deduction or less after factoring anyway. :think:
I'm not hoping to see a quad from my favorites anytime soon.
I'm not hoping to see a quad from my favorites anytime soon.
Mao will challenge her with quad flip and 2 triple axels. :yes: The men will feel duly ashamed for still being stuck on quad salchow.
She needs to concentrate on healing and staying on the ice; she has been injury-prone this last season add in trying those jumps she would likely be getting more and more injuries.
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- Nov 13, 2012
You think the ladies will try the 4Flip or 4Lutz before the 4T or 4S??
No. But that would be the scenario in which "fixing the edge" would be relevant, wouldn't it? People could be doing single axels and toes and still have wrong edges on their flips and lutzes. (shrug)
On the other hand.... @Sandpiper - I like the way you think.
That's my point though, but I can't really say anything since this is how CoP work. Landing a quad, but completely ignoring the correct edge of the jump , to me, is annoying. I don't want ladies to ignore the edge just because they can land a "quad."
But like I said, this is CoP. More points, you win!!
Honestly, it was no less underrotated than any of Miki's ratified quad attempts. There was a ton of politics at play when Surya's wasn't counted.
And in turn, were Miki's (or Surya's) quads any more UR than the ratified quads from the male pioneers? (Browning, Urmanov, ect.) But the official record is, Miki Ando is the first woman to land a quad. Just like Kurt Browning is the first man to do so. If we get into these things, we'll have to find who was "truly" the first guy to land a quad as well.
Good point. I think I've seen most of Surya's attempts, but I never saw one that looked even close to completely rotated. Miki's ratified quad looked iffy, too, but it's fun to watch some of the ones she did in practice. Starting here in this video, she nails a bunch of them. I don't think she ever got a handle on landing them fully-rotated until 2007 or so.
The question under COP isn't so much whether it's fully rotated, but whether it's more than a quarter-turn short. I admit I'm terrible at spotting URs, so I can't say whether Miki or Surya (or Kurt or Alexei Urmanov) got within that quarter-turn. Miki's quads in that video look good, as far as I can tell. :thumbsup:
I assume Surya's quads looked too far off, since rotation wasn't scrutinized that closely under 6.0. Or maybe the judges really had it out for her. :think: But there are some URs that just won't fly even under 6.0s, e.g. Brian Boitano's quad attempts (often accompanied by a two-foot/step-out as well).
I assume Surya's quads looked too far off, since rotation wasn't scrutinized that closely under 6.0. Or maybe the judges really had it out for her. :think: But there are some URs that just won't fly even under 6.0s, e.g. Brian Boitano's quad attempts (often accompanied by a two-foot/step-out as well).
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