Women and the Quad

[champs]

I've always wished Courtney continued training 4S till she lands a clean one in a competition, ever since I watched her attempt at the Glacier Falls. It was understandable if she and her coach decided not to after she broke her leg in Italy though I still secretly hoped. And I don't mind her trying 4F as she always seem to have excess rotational momentum she can't seem to control well when she does 3F.

I also watched the video of Elizabet's attempt at the Cricket Club, it was pretty smooth but couldn't tell how much she rotated on the ice due to the potato quality of the vid. She's also very talented and her training environment surely must be very motivating for her to challenge a quad. I'm wishing her luck!

 

[Nathan13]

I've always wished Courtney continued training 4S till she lands a clean one in a competition, ever since I watched her attempt at the Glacier Falls. It was understandable if she and her coach decided not to after she broke her leg in Italy though I still secretly hoped. And I don't mind her trying 4F as she always seem to have excess rotational momentum she can't seem to control well when she does 3F.

Are there any videos from practice of Courtney trying the quad?

 

[champs]

Are there any videos from practice of Courtney trying the quad?

Never seen videos of her practicing quads, just the quad sal attempt at Glacier Falls in 2011, two months before the tibia injury at the JGP Italy.

 

[NSingh7]

Women vs. The Quad?

Quad jumps are in a majority of the men's competition and I was wondering why women aren't doing them? Men seems to be progressing towards more difficult jumps, whereas the ladies are still doing triple triples. Does anyone understand why?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Male athletes have leaner, more muscular builds that are better suited for quad jumps. All the different quads being achieved now is a very recent thing; it wasn't too long ago that only the salchow and toe loops had been accomplished by the men.

 

[NSingh7]

But there are women who have done triple axels then stop. You don't see very many female skaters even attempting more difficult jumps (i.e. Mao Asada)

 

[SkaterX]

This was discussed in a fairly recent thread:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?61746&p=1569565#post1569565

I know that Elizabet Tursynbayeva is able to do a quad salchow.

 

[mrrice]

Well, the only quads I've ever seen a woman attempt are Sals, and they were done by Miki Ando in competition and in practice by Sasha Cohen. That's it. With the scoring potential of back loaded triple triple programs, I don't think quads are necessary for ladies to win.

 

[4everchan]

surya attempted the 4t in competition but it wasn't successful

Well, the only quads I ever seen a woman attempt are Sals, and they were done by Miki Ando in competition and in practice by Sasha Cohen. That's it. With the scoring potential of back loaded triple triple programs, I don't think quads are necessary for ladies to win.

 

[samm22]

But there are women who have done triple axels then stop. You don't see very many female skaters even attempting more difficult jumps (i.e. Mao Asada)

Mao did practice quad salchow when she was younger, but really the judging system doesn't provide much incentive for the dramatic risk increase. At the time, she was a junior and didn't need the new jumps to win anyway.

I don't blame skaters for backloading their programs with triple-triples, as they don't have incentive to try more difficult jumps. I feel like ladies skating has stagnated in jump content not because of their ability but because their is not enough incentive to continue pushing the boundaries

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

With the scoring potential of back loaded triple triple programs, I don't think quads are necessary for ladies to win.

So true. The issue is not only landing a quad, but that the woman would then need to land another 6 (or so) triples to win. If a skater lands a quad or 3A and then pops a couple of triples to doubles, she will likely finish behind the 7 triple skater in TES. Just to illustrate:

4S (10.5 BV) + 2T (1.3 BV) + 2Lz (2.1 BV) = 13.9
3S (4.4 BV) + 3T(4.3) + 3Lz (6)= 14.7

So if the skaters perform the other technical elements equally, those two pops will result in the quad skater having a lower BV.

 

[Miller]

Are ladies even allowed to try a quad in the short program? If so they could replace their solo triple jump with a quad and gain 5 base points, plus in their LP they could gain 7 points if they replaced a 2A with a quad. However if it's only the latter then is it worth it? However 3As can be done in both, theoretically gaining 10.4 points if replacing 2As, perhaps a more realistic option for the more athletically gifted amongst them, though even then it's never been the easiest jump to achieve.

 

[breadstal]

Well, I think it's physical thing. It's like asking all men for doing Biellman spin, at least this is how I feel about it. I'm sure there are some ladies trying it but seeing how backloading+tanos are more a thing, I don't think they feel need of doing quads. I would rather see triple axels.

 

[cathlen]

Are ladies even allowed to try a quad in the short program? If so they could replace their solo triple jump with a quad and gain 5 base points, plus in their LP they could gain 7 points if they replaced a 2A with a quad. However if it's only the latter then is it worth it? However 3As can be done in both, theoretically gaining 10.4 points if replacing 2As, perhaps a more realistic option for the more athletically gifted amongst them, though even then it's never been the easiest jump to achieve.

No they are not. This is one of the reason it's not encouraging for Ladies. Unlike Men, they can't use it in both SP and FP. So practising hard for a quad, only to be able to use it once in a program (I'm guessing no lady would jump it in a combo)? Better to backload like Evgenia does. Or learn 3A, which can give you point advantage in SP (like Liza T. did at 2015 Worlds), when you have less jumps to do, so less chance for messing up other jumps.

 

[Rissa]

Male athletes have leaner, more muscular builds that are better suited for quad jumps. All the different quads being achieved now is a very recent thing; it wasn't too long ago that only the salchow and toe loops had been accomplished by the men.

And the puberty is kinder to them than to women. Women's body changes so drastically that they may have problems retainning their triples, not to mention learning quads.

 

[mrrice]

I have a question. How many Men do quad Sal's? It was by far my most hated jump and it destroyed my groin and hip flexor muscles.

 

[princessalica]

Gracie once talked about doing a quad, and if she could regain her height from 2013 season, then I think she would have the goods to pull it off. Maybe actually that would be good for her funk, as she once commented that she does best when she has a clear big goal.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I have a question. How many Men do quad Sal's? It was by far my most hated jump and it destroyed my groin and hip flexor muscles.

Let's see:

Hanyu
Patrick
Javier
Boyang
Kevin Reynolds
Brezina
Samohin
Takahito Mura
Keiji Tanaka
Nam Nguyen
Max Aaron
Nathan (but it's problematic so he skipped it at the GPF)
Kovtun
Denis Ten

I am sure I missed skaters but this is off the top of my head.

 

[mrrice]

Let's see:

Hanyu
Patrick
Javier
Boyang
Kevin Reynolds
Brezina
Samohin
Takahito Mura
Keiji Tanaka
Nam Nguyen
Max Aaron
Nathan (but it's problematic so he skipped it at the GPF)
Kovtun
Denis Ten

I am sure I missed skaters but this is from the top of my head.

Thanks Yatagarasu, I cringe every time I see a man set up for Sal because it brings up terrible memories from my skating days. It's such a pretty jump when it's done well but.....To me, they represent pain and disappointment.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Thanks Yatagarasu, I cringe every time I see a man set up for Sal because it brings up terrible memories from my skating days. It's such a pretty jump when it's done well but.....To me, they represent pain and disappointment.

No problem and ah, no matter how pretty a jump or well executed, when a person has got memories like that, it's inevitable there's a negative association. I am sorry you had to go through that!