Mathman, please feel free to PM me if you would like to. I've always respected you as a poster and held your opinions in high esteem but this is one topic where you're off-base. This will be the last post I will make in this thread for the sake of the people in it.
Your favorite ladies Olympic competition
- Thread starter skateluvr
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Mathman, please feel free to PM me if you would like to. I've always respected you as a poster and held your opinions in high esteem but this is one topic where you're off-base. This will be the last post I will make in this thread for the sake of the people in it.
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- Oct 31, 2014
Wrong. Kristi did that combo at the 1992 Olympics, and didn't even participate at 1994 at all.
She is my first and all time idol who made me follow this sport along with a great jumper, Ito, but her lutz is flutz and her triple-triple combos were practiced only in free skate. Other skaters doing triple-triples consistently were scarcely found at that time and beforehand, especially during the Kwan-Slutskaya-Cohen's era which is kind of regression in technical aspects.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Wrong. Kristi did that combo at the 1992 Olympics, and didn't even participate at 1994 at all.
Kristi's
technical bugaboo was the triple Salchow. As for a triple-triple in the short program, IIRC that was not allowed in the short program at that time (a triple-double was required). Also, speaking of Midori Ito, a triple Axel was not allowed (a double was required) in the short program. I think the point was that they wanted to compare all skaters doing the same elements.
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- Oct 31, 2014
Kristi's
Yes, her nemesis jump is triple salchow but she fell down on a triple loop at the 1992 Olympics. However, if there had been skaters capable of doing triples-triples consistently, the rule might've been modified already back then just like the current rule has been changed to encourage female skaters to do more difficult jumps. Regardless, the 1992 Olympics remains one of my favorite Olympic ladies' events all time because every first experience is so special and that era was exciting to watch a lot of talented jumpers with dramas.
People can have various opinions on their own, but the assertion like Yuna Kim's programs didn't have any transformative role is simply opposite to what figure skating experts said. Mao who reintroduced triple axel after Ito's great legacy, the jump almost extinct in ladies' figure skating for about 10 years needed to nail her triple axels in order to beat her and everyone had to prepare their technical contents as highest as possible. The same thing also happened when she was back to the game in the 2013 World.
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I think we have to differentiate between terms like "exotic beauty", "exotic fruits", "exotic birds" (all positive in my opinion) and "exotic dancers" (not so positive).
And Michelle Kwan's "Salome" uses the "Dance of the Seven Veils" by Strauss which is a striptease dance (I guess no singer was ever naked in the end, but certainly not wearing much) in the opera (well, it was based on a play by Oscar Wilde ). The premiere of that opera was a scandal.
Michelle Kwan interpreted it very well, I think it's still very impressive that she was able to it at age 15. She looked very mature and I'm sure she wouldn't have beaten Lu Chen at Worlds with any other program.
Wrong. Kristi did that combo at the 1992 Olympics, and didn't even participate at 1994 at all.
Many might consider the Kwan-Slutskaya-Cohen era (and you could include several others) as a regression in technical aspects I suppose (although the spins were near perfect, there were triple triples done, etc) in terms of artistry it was an era of brilliance and individuality. I've stated this often...and I'll state it again...I miss the good old days. Programs from those skaters are the ones I rewatch time and time again. And yes, mrrice, you could add Maria to the list.
Wrong. Kristi did that combo at the 1992 Olympics, and didn't even participate at 1994 at all.
1992, even earlier! And it isn't true at all that ladies skaters weren't doing triple-triples. Tara did a 3-3 and a 3-seq-3 to win her Olympic gold and Sarah Hughes won in 2002 with 2 3-3s. Kim did them better but she was hardly a trailblazer.
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- Sep 18, 2014
As a Yuna fan, I am a fan of the 2010 and 2014 Olympics. 
Rewatching performances from both Olympics, I do like both of them equally as both had superb performances from the competitors, but the controversy surrounding Sochi kind of dampens the feats accomplished by the skaters at least in my humble opinion. I prefer the 2010 Olympics, but the 2014 Olympics is a close second.
2010 Olympics would've be a treat to watch live; Yuna's domination (and subsequent destruction of World Records, 2 of which still stand 6 years from now!
), Mao's legendary 3 Triple Axels (I've always loved her spirals and her Bells of Moscow program...), Joannie's inspirational performance, Mirai's rise with 2 wonderful skates, no fall from the top 12. 
It's interesting how the Olympic champions of the past 20 years (except 2010) were unexpected or not exactly the favorites to win because they were in the shadow of someone else; Oksana Baiul who was buried in the Tanya-Nancy mayhem, Michelle was the favorite instead of Tara(?)*, Sarah was the third American lady behind Michelle and Sasha, Irina was the favorite instead of Shizuka (who ultimately won) and both were beaten by Mao when many thought she was the best ever though age-ineligible, (skip Yuna) and Adelina who wasn't even on the radar of many because she was buried behind her teammate Yulia (and Yuna, Mao, etc). I wonder what 2018 will bring...?
*Is this correct? I wasn't a huge fan of FS during that time but from videos, blog posts, and other resources that's what I had gathered.
Rewatching performances from both Olympics, I do like both of them equally as both had superb performances from the competitors, but the controversy surrounding Sochi kind of dampens the feats accomplished by the skaters at least in my humble opinion. I prefer the 2010 Olympics, but the 2014 Olympics is a close second.2010 Olympics would've be a treat to watch live; Yuna's domination (and subsequent destruction of World Records, 2 of which still stand 6 years from now!
), Mao's legendary 3 Triple Axels (I've always loved her spirals and her Bells of Moscow program...), Joannie's inspirational performance, Mirai's rise with 2 wonderful skates, no fall from the top 12. It's interesting how the Olympic champions of the past 20 years (except 2010) were unexpected or not exactly the favorites to win because they were in the shadow of someone else; Oksana Baiul who was buried in the Tanya-Nancy mayhem, Michelle was the favorite instead of Tara(?)*, Sarah was the third American lady behind Michelle and Sasha, Irina was the favorite instead of Shizuka (who ultimately won) and both were beaten by Mao when many thought she was the best ever though age-ineligible, (skip Yuna) and Adelina who wasn't even on the radar of many because she was buried behind her teammate Yulia (and Yuna, Mao, etc). I wonder what 2018 will bring...?
*Is this correct? I wasn't a huge fan of FS during that time but from videos, blog posts, and other resources that's what I had gathered.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I think it's hard to make such an assertion without describe how the programs had a transformative role. The technical level of 6 triples was below what Tara or Sarah delivered. Spins and spirals were not particularly noteworthy. The programs were very well choreographed and performed excellently but there is a difference between that and something being "transformative."
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- Oct 31, 2014
Tara then retired too early and Hughes's triple combos have been heavily criticized for her URs, not fully rotated enough although I loved seeing them win at that time; totally deserved. Anyway, I don't recall anyone ever claiming that Yuna is a pioneer for triple-triple jump combos (which attributes Midori Ito), so I don't get your point. However, she popularized 3-3 combos to the ladies' discipline as a whole again and various transitions to her jumps in and out. So, I think you're still wrong.
The transformation was the result of the IJS, which gave credit for transitions in and out. She won't be remembered for that. She'll be remembered for her jumping ability, skating skills and presentation. She was among the best in those areas, but not transformational.
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- Oct 31, 2014
I love Sasha the most among the three and her sassy performances with great spins. However, during the era I was somewhat bored with and lost my interest in figure skating since I saw technical brilliance from the previous era. What is more pleasant to watch or artistic not is up to personal preference because artistry is very subjective.
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- Oct 31, 2014
I think it's hard to make such assertion that Yuna Kim has nothing transformative in her programs. My posts here are rebuttal to the assertion raised by jenaj. Tara, Sarah, and Kim competed in a different period, event and mostly under a different judging systems.
The assertion that the technical level of 6 triple was below than 7 triples with flawed jumps is also so funny. Quality always comes first before quantity when judges evaluate elements.
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That wasn't always the case in the 6.0 era.I think it's hard to make such assertion that Yuna Kim has nothing transformative in her programs. My posts here are rebuttal to the assertion raised by jenaj. Tara, Sarah, and Kim competed in a different period, event and mostly under a different judging systems.
Examples: Worlds 96 ladies FS (Kwan did one triple more than Chen), a popped jump wasn't a real problem, as long as the skater did that jump again later in the program. Bajul did that additional triple to win olympic gold in the FS (that's what she said, she said she knew she had to do it to win). Stojko's olympic FS receiving higher technical score than Urmanov's, altough he popped a 3A.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I think it's hard to make such assertion that Yuna Kim has nothing transformative in her programs. My posts here are rebuttal to the assertion raised by jenaj. Tara, Sarah, and Kim competed in a different period, event and mostly under a different judging systems.
Taking off from a correct edge on the lutz isn't transformative. To be fair, a lot of people think Medvedeva is transformative but I think it is more she has a tremendous ability to back-load her programs and 'tano everything.
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- Jan 25, 2013
So is her LP despite a fall and a stepout. I just love re-watching it again and again. Judging by near 400 thousand views of the youtube video and comments as recent as a week ago I am not alone. If there has ever been a STORY told on the ice, Sasha's Romeo & Julia certainly was. And she skated with a injury there!
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- Jul 9, 2014
I agree. There were several great performances including Joannie Rochette. Mirai Nagasu, Rachael Flatt, and Akiko Suzuki.
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- Oct 31, 2014
Again, as I said earlier, Yuna Kim popularized 3-3 combos and transition to the ladies' event, so that she became a symbol of the new judging system. Performing with flawed 7 triples is not transformative. Medvedeva has not even competed in Olympics,
so I don't see why you brought her up here just because of her uncalled flutz? Besides, unlike your claim, I've seen that many people criticized Medvedeva' tanos and and programs looking empty in first half and back-loaded jumps like 'gaming the system' in comparison with Boitano's beautiful and transformative tanos.
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- Feb 17, 2010
Scores notwithstanding, Mao did far more transitions with great quality in Vancouver.
