Yu/Jin & Peng/Zhang switch partners

[Li'Kitsu]

Maybe they thought it would be easier for the new teams to adapt and work with each other the first year reusing their old programs. I can live with that even if I think it's in poor taste. But for the love of god give these athletes their own costumes.

I can only argue from dancing, but I personally don't think using the old choreo is going to make it easier. It might obviously also depend on the individual person, but IMO when you switch the partner, you basically have to learn the choreo new yourself too, because everyone has a different way of moving, interpreting the music ect. Unless of course you want your new partner to be a carbon copy of the old one...

But if they basically force all the skaters to start anew with a different partner, they should have made it a real new start, new programs too. It might also make it so much more difficult for them emotionally, seeing someone else basically doing your choreo with your old partner (especially for Yu here...). Not to forget that this might bite them if they don't manage to perform well right out of the gate, since it makes it so much easier to compare the new couples to the old ones. I don't think it is humanly possible for Peng/Jin to get the same kind of chemistry and connection that Yu/Jin had within less than a year. There is basically no other way than for them to come up short with this.

 

[icekiwi]

I have only just come back to this.

Wow, wow, wow................I have no words to express............just a new kind of 'low' for me!

To make the girls wear each other's old dresses, is a completely new 'low'. Yu's dress is at least 2 season's old now!

The 'treatment' of these girls right from the start - the forced 'change' of partners, and now, to skate to 'old' music and exchanging each other's costumes is disrespectful and inhumane. They are athletes who all deserve to be treated with some dignity. These coaches have forgotten that these girls are human beings with feelings, self respect and self awareness. How can they feel comfortable and be expected to skate with emotion and connection when I, as a spectator, feel so uncomfortable just watching these videos!!

 

[Skater Boy]

Oh my... what next. Wearing each others underwear. NO NO NO. When will this nightmare end.

 

[lyndichee]

I wonder how the scores will come out if both teams are able to produce the same technical content as they did in the last season. Will the judges even like this? Frankly the international audience has been made aware of the partner switch and how it was likely without the consent of all skaters in the 2 partnerships. I feel like there will be an inherent bias for judges and they may dislike this deliberate cut and paste of pairings. If they do reuse the same programs as well, I think the judges will hose them on PCS.

What a horribly awkward image it will be at Cup of China.

Overall a very short-sighted decision by CSA. I can't help but think what will happen if Zhang's age/body catches up to him and he is unable to make it to 2018/2022. Will they immediately paste Yu back with Jin? While figure skating is a sport, I don't think disregarding the emotional investment of the skaters and fans will play out well in the long run.

 

[Sweet Dream]

The girls are being not treated as people with feelings; they are just being treated as "moving things" that can be replaced at will.

You know, only Olympic Gold/Medals matters to these Chinese. They are aiming for 2022 and they firmly believe that they can make it, so what can you say? Possibly my intelligence is too low to get the point of all these inconceivable melodramas, and everything they once did/said will surely go down in FS HISTORY!

 

[icekiwi]

I wonder how the scores will come out if both teams are able to produce the same technical content as they did in the last season. Will the judges even like this? Frankly the international audience has been made aware of the partner switch and how it was likely without the consent of all skaters in the 2 partnerships. I feel like there will be an inherent bias for judges and they may dislike this deliberate cut and paste of pairings. If they do reuse the same programs as well, I think the judges will hose them on PCS.

What a horribly awkward image it will be at Cup of China.

Overall a very short-sighted decision by CSA. I can't help but think what will happen if Zhang's age/body catches up to him and he is unable to make it to 2018/2022. Will they immediately paste Yu back with Jin? While figure skating is a sport, I don't think disregarding the emotional investment of the skaters and fans will play out well in the long run.

I totally agree with you there, lyndichee. The judges are 'people' too, it has been shown time and again, the judges will use 'PCs' marks to lowball any skaters they don't like. It is my personal opinion, these 2 pairs will be lowballed in the PCs in the upcoming season.

I agree too that Zhang's body is not going to hold up for 2022. He suffered back injury this past season. Given aging and weight factors, 2022 is unlikely. The old Yu/Jin pairing definitely has far better chances to medal in 2022. The judges have already displayed a lot of liking towards Yu/Jin. Yu/Jin were the emerging pair with a lot of future.

Also, what a waste of time on the part of David Wilson and Lori Nicholl. These choreographers take a good analysis at the skaters' abilities, personalities and 'look' to come up with a program that suits them. Time and research would have been invested even before skaters arrive to try out the new programs. What an utter waste of these talented choreographers' time! So totally unprofessional to treat Lori and David this way. Of course, they won't complain, they are paid to do a job.

 

[Giselle]

I just realized that the whole let's make a new team skate to an old program already happened with Lei Wang!

In 2011-2012 with his old partner Yue Zhang, he skated to The Swan by Camille Saint-Saens for the SP and Singin' in the Rain for the LP. Pictures from 2012 4CC (scroll down, they finished 9th).

In 2013-2014 with Xuehan Wang he skated to... The Swan by Camille Saint-Saens for the SP and Singin' in the Rain for the LP.

I honestly hope that both Yu/Zhang and Peng/Jin have new SPs, for their sake really. Fine if the Chinese fed couldn't afford 4 new Lori Nichol or David Wilson programs, but you can't tell me there's no one in China that can choreograph 2 decent SP's!

 

[blue_idealist]

Overall a very short-sighted decision by CSA. I can't help but think what will happen if Zhang's age/body catches up to him and he is unable to make it to 2018/2022. Will they immediately paste Yu back with Jin? While figure skating is a sport, I don't think disregarding the emotional investment of the skaters and fans will play out well in the long run.

It crossed my mind that they would put Yu back with Jin if Zhang retired before Yu, which would mean that Yu and Jin would have lost a few years of development they could have had.. also Peng would be left on the sidelines unless they could find her another suitable partner.

 

[solani]

It crossed my mind that they would put Yu back with Jin if Zhang retired before Yu, which would mean that Yu and Jin would have lost a few years of development they could have had.. also Peng would be left on the sidelines unless they could find her another suitable partner.

I don't think that this is going to happen, because I believe that Peng will be stronger than Yu in the long term. Peng is at least two years younger than she officially is, I have no doubt about that and I think that she has puberty issues right now. She isn't the most stable jumper to begin with and her jump issues have cost them dearly last season. Zhang needs (wants? I don't know .. ) a stable partner in the next two seasons and Yu was the only "available" option. I think it would have been wiser to give Peng some extra jumping lessons, because Yu isn't a very reliable jumper either. Peng has to grow stronger and increase her self-confidence, it's very likely that Jin is going to be good for her and she might want to prove herself now, because she wasn't considered to be good enough for Zhang any longer. And she must have had a hard time with all those expectations in the last couple of years.
I hope that Yu can handle the situation, because she is the one under pressure right now, she must deliver. But she'll have the full support of the Chinese Fed now and she wouldn't have that with Jin.
So I also think that in two years either Yu or Peng will be without a partner and I think it's going to be Yu. I hope that she'll have at least a World medal for comfort then. Although I don't think that it's going to happen, simply because a 3T and 2A-2A seq isn't enough for a medal nowadays.
Anyway, I think that both teams will at least have new outfits at the beginning of the season. And we can compare the SP's immediatly after CoC. My bet is on Peng/Jin.

 

[SarahSynchro]

Looking at the Cup of China lineup, it's almost asinine to think that the CSA would put all three teams in the competition. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Out of the three, if all the teams on the roster are healthy, only Sui and Han are pretty much a lock for the podium. These new cut and paste teams are a big question mark. I'd bet money that at least two out of the following three teams: Yuko and Sasha, Lubov and Dylan and Alexa and Chris - will place ahead of Peng and Jin and Yu and Zhang. I can't see the judges allowing any "hometown advantage" in light of how these switch ups unconventionally came to be.

 

[4everchan]

which means, less chance for these new teams to get into gpf....

Looking at the Cup of China lineup, it's almost asinine to think that the CSA would put all three teams in the competition. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Out of the three, if all the teams on the roster are healthy, only Sui and Han are pretty much a lock for the podium. These new cut and paste teams are a big question mark. I'd bet money that at least two out of the following three teams: Yuko and Sasha, Lubov and Dylan and Alexa and Chris - will place ahead of Peng and Jin and Yu and Zhang. I can't see the judges allowing any "hometown advantage" in light of how these switch ups unconventionally came to be.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I don't think that this is going to happen, because I believe that Peng will be stronger than Yu in the long term. Peng is at least two years younger than she officially is, I have no doubt about that and I think that she has puberty issues right now.

Hallelujah! I was starting to think I was thinking like a crazy person when I came to the same conclusion earlier in this thread!

OK, so I had suspected all along that Peng's problems this season were down to puberty. But I was thinking along the lines of late-onset puberty. It wasn't until annesigin mentioned that Peng looked younger than "her real age" it dawned on me that maybe she is yet another example of age changing, and that it was actually regular puberty she was going through.

She isn't the most stable jumper to begin with and her jump issues have cost them dearly last season. Zhang needs (wants? I don't know .. ) a stable partner in the next two seasons and Yu was the only "available" option. I think it would have been wiser to give Peng some extra jumping lessons, because Yu isn't a very reliable jumper either. Peng has to grow stronger and increase her self-confidence, it's very likely that Jin is going to be good for her and she might want to prove herself now, because she wasn't considered to be good enough for Zhang any longer. And she must have had a hard time with all those expectations in the last couple of years.
I hope that Yu can handle the situation, because she is the one under pressure right now, she must deliver. But she'll have the full support of the Chinese Fed now and she wouldn't have that with Jin.
So I also think that in two years either Yu or Peng will be without a partner and I think it's going to be Yu. I hope that she'll have at least a World medal for comfort then. Although I don't think that it's going to happen, simply because a 3T and 2A-2A seq isn't enough for a medal nowadays.
Anyway, I think that both teams will at least have new outfits at the beginning of the season. And we can compare the SP's immediatly after CoC. My bet is on Peng/Jin.

Good assessment of the situation. Yu is indeed the one under pressure. She is the one that knows that there is only a limited lifespan to her new partnership. And she has to perform to prove to the powers that be that she deserves a good partner once Zhang Hao retires.

We all know how good Yu Xiaoyu is from her partnership with Jin Yang. And that she deserves a good partner. But, we also know how good Zhang Hanci was when he was skating with Peng Cheng. Yet he wasn't able to find a new partner after the powers that be decided to pair her up with Zhang Hao. And that was the end of his career.

I'm sure Yu Xiaoyu is worrying the same will happen to her.

Everybody is going on about how this switcheroo was done to benefit Zhang Hao. But Peng Cheng is the real winner in this whole debacle. Although she is the one that struggled this season, she is now the one that has a partner that has a long term future in the sport. For the past few years, the Sword of Damocles has been hanging over her head. Now it is hanging over Yu Xiaoyu.

I'm with you. Once she gets over her puberty issues, Peng / Jin will be the couple that comes out on top.

I feel so sorry for Yu. She has been really shafted by her Federation!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[hanca]

Looking at the Cup of China lineup, it's almost asinine to think that the CSA would put all three teams in the competition. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Out of the three, if all the teams on the roster are healthy, only Sui and Han are pretty much a lock for the podium. These new cut and paste teams are a big question mark. I'd bet money that at least two out of the following three teams: Yuko and Sasha, Lubov and Dylan and Alexa and Chris - will place ahead of Peng and Jin and Yu and Zhang. I can't see the judges allowing any "hometown advantage" in light of how these switch ups unconventionally came to be.

The problem is that Yuko-Sasha are coming back from injury, so no one can know what form they will be in, Sui-Han too, and Lubov is not a particularly stable skater jump wise... I wouldn't be surprised if either of the new pairs medalled.

 

[SarahSynchro]

The problem is that Yuko-Sasha are coming back from injury, so no one can know what form they will be in, Sui-Han too, and Lubov is not a particularly stable skater jump wise... I wouldn't be surprised if either of the new pairs medalled.

You're right, it could totally happen. Trust me, I'm usually the first person on the forum to cry afoul when people start making guaranteed predictions solely based on past results.

That's the problem though, these new teams don't have any past results, other than the results with their previous partners, which essentially mean nothing. I guess we can never really know what will happen. Compiling statistics on the odds of certain scenarios actually happening seems impossible. However, the fact that they'll both only have been skating as two pairs for six months when November rolls around makes the odds stacked heavily against them, no? But if the three Chinese pairs happen to sweep the podium, cool, I was proved wrong. its a guarantee that I'll get over it and move on with my life.

When people bring up Aliona and Bruno in relation to this topic, it doesn't really make sense to me, as they'd been training together for two years before winning World and European bronze medals. Two years is a lifetime in comparison to half a year.

 

[hanca]

In this case it is the Chinese federation that has something to prove, so I wouldn't be surprised if the skaters managed to train 15 hours a day, just so that they are ready. I don't think human rights are that big in China, and if they are told to train they will train...
I wouldn't compare them with Savchenko/Massot, but there were a few Russian pair skaters who were pretty succesful in their first season, for example Astakhova/Rogonov, Zabijako/Enbert, and those skaters were not as good in their previous partnership as those Chinese skaters were. And from non-Russian skaters, look at the results of Marchei-Hotarek - their first season was pretty strong and she was completely new to pairs, which the Chinese skaters are not.
I am not implying that they would medal at worlds, but it is not as if their GP event was so fully competitive. Two pairs who are usually very good are coming back from serious injury which included operation, plus then there is a few pairs that are generally decent but not particularly consistent... I am not saying they will win it, but medal is not out of question.

 

[Ilvskating]

For those who really care about the skaters, according to reliable source, both Y/Z and P/J will skate a new SP for the new season!

 

[skylark]

I don't think that this is going to happen, because I believe that Peng will be stronger than Yu in the long term. Peng is at least two years younger than she officially is, I have no doubt about that and I think that she has puberty issues right now.

Are you saying that they're lying about Peng's age by two years? How can they get away with that?

I've only been reading this forum for about a year, so maybe I am a naif..

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Are you saying that they're lying about Peng's age by two years? How can they get away with that?

I've only been reading this forum for about a year, so maybe I am a naif..

The Chinese are notorious for putting false dates of birth on paperwork to make their athletes eligible for competitions they are either too young for or too old for. And it is not unique to skating. It happens in practically every sport they are involved in.

Of the skaters that this thread is about, Peng Cheng is actually the only one that has not been caught with differing dates of birth... yet!

Below is a table summarising the differences and the implications for the Pairs skaters that there is confusion over:

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD]Skater
[/TD]
[TD]Set 1 (ISU)
[/TD]
[TD]Set 2 (CSA)
[/TD]
[TD]Implications
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Zhang Dan
[/TD]
[TD]4[SUP]th[/SUP] October 1985
[/TD]
[TD]4[SUP]th[/SUP] October 1987
[/TD]
[TD]Too young for Senior Majors in 2001–2002 season if second set correct.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Zhang Hao
[/TD]
[TD]6[SUP]th[/SUP] July 1984
[/TD]
[TD]6[SUP]th[/SUP] February 1982
[/TD]
[TD]Too old for Juniors in 2002–2003 season if second set correct.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Yu Xiaoyu
[/TD]
[TD]2[SUP]nd[/SUP] January 1996
[/TD]
[TD]2[SUP]nd[/SUP] January 1998
[/TD]
[TD]Too young for Juniors in 2010–2011 season if second set correct.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jin Yang
[/TD]
[TD]16[SUP]th[/SUP] May 1994
[/TD]
[TD]16[SUP]th[/SUP] May 1989
[/TD]
[TD]Too old for Juniors from 2010–2011 season onwards if second set correct.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sui Wenjing
[/TD]
[TD]18[SUP]th[/SUP] July 1995
[/TD]
[TD]7[SUP]th[/SUP] May 1997
[/TD]
[TD]Too young for Juniors in 2009–2010 season, and for Seniors in 2010–2011 season, if second set correct.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Han Cong
[/TD]
[TD]6[SUP]th[/SUP] August 1992
[/TD]
[TD]6[SUP]th[/SUP] March 1989
[/TD]
[TD]Too old for Juniors in 2010–2011 season if second set correct.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

If you want to read more, including the singles skaters that were also affected, here is the Associated Press story, as shown on the ESPN UK website:

http://www.espn.co.uk/figure-skating/figureskating/news/story?id=6120559

As for Peng, psusanne actually said she was "at least two years younger than she officially is".

The date of birth the ISU has for Peng Cheng is 23[SUP]rd[/SUP] April 1997, which would make her 19. But, given that it is obvious that she is going through puberty at the moment, I would go as far as to suggest that she could be as much as four or five years younger than her ISU Bio says!

Yes, that sounds a lot. Like, surely that sort of discrepency is too big. But, five years just happens to be the difference between the two DOB's for her new partner, Jin Yang.

So, it is not impossible. In fact, it is entirely probable.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[skylark]

So, it is not impossible. In fact, it is entirely probable.

Yikes. I had no idea. Thank you for answering my question, CaroLiza fan.

I guess I still don't quite understand how they can get away with it. But I am suitably horrified. I guess the Chinese fed hasn't heard the adage that Cheaters Never Win, or maybe don't believe it.

ETA: Okay, I read the article you linked, which does sort of explain how they have gotten away with it.

 

[solani]

But I am suitably horrified. I guess the Chinese fed hasn't heard the adage that Cheaters Never Win, or maybe don't believe it.

I also think that this isn't going to give them any advantages in the long term. Simply because they put so much stress on the bodies of those tiny teenage girls. Boys up to, let's say, four years older could never throw them so high and far so often for example.
I'm glad that pair skating seems to favour older female skaters. There's really only Wenjing Sui medalling below the age of 20 in the last couple of years. And she already has serious health issues, I hope that she'll fully heal, losing her would be very sad for figure skating. "Old" female skaters like Duhamel and Savchenko are doing great. I think that the Chinese fed will have to adapt if they want to continue to be successful, because a female pair skater has to be so much more than a decent skater who's light and easy to throw. I don't think that they're really doing it on purpose (except for the "adaption" of the birth dates), I think that after Qing/Jian, Dan/Hao and Xue/Hongbo retired they simply had talented older male pair skaters or male skaters and they wanted to continue to be successful.