Yulia Lipnitskaya

[cruzceleste]

Jesus, I'm not trolling. I don't like seeing her fail, I want her to do well, but I don't see why everyone gets so upset when someone who knows her gives a clear analysis of what's going wrong this season. Is it worse to have something true and accurate from someone close to the situation, or have the gossip stirring articles or posts from vk that just insinuate things without putting a name to it? And where did he discuss truly private matters? Look at Staviski, he works with Zhulin's group as Averbukh worked with Yulia, and yet whenever he speaks to the press he says "these are the issues that need work for these skaters, this is the attitude that needs to change" and no one flips out.

I agree with you.

Choreographer speaks, coachs speak, they talk about points a skater need to improve.

And will there ever be a right time to criticized or point out areas in wich Julia need to improve?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

@Uhh

Look its nothing personal against you. I just ain't so thrilled with Ilya this season off of the ice and I don't like him disclosing private information about Eteri and Yulia's relationship.

Agree to disagree....:yes:

 

[Alba]

Yulia chose the themes, the choreography wasn't there yet & things aren't working out with Yulia & Eteri, she asks him to come and help with the programs. How does this conflict with what either of them said?

That's exactly the part which doesn't fit. Yulia had problems during 2012-2013 season, especially during the first half. Therefore, the part that she might've thought leaving Eteri during that period might be true. I wasn't disputing that because I don't know, so I take his word for it. What I do not get is the story he is telling, that Eteri called him to make those programs for 2013-2014 season, basically in order to prevent Yulia leaving her, and he saved the day.

I repeat again, according to all interviews that Eteri and Yulia has given in this regard the story is that they asked different people to choreo those two programs. They struggled to find a choreographer, till Ilya accepted. So no, I do not believe that Yulia was thinking to leave Eteri in the Olympic season, and after they chose the programs.

I found his comments to actually be very respectful of all the work Eteri has done & explaining that you can't just expect another coach to step in and work miracles, and she's been getting precious little respect from any other quarter this season.

I don't really understand why do you keep mixing up things. Our criticism for Ilya's were about his choice of words towards Yulia, and his bad timing. Nobody accused him being disrespectful towards Eteri.

It's very disheartening that so many people have been so quick to hand wave what she achieved last year, or call Ilia a liar or say he's riding on the back of Yulia's success and using it for himself and demand changes, when it's obvious that Yulia has been struggling for reasons that are outside of a coach's or choreographer's control.

In this topic the vast majority of Yulia's fans have had, and continue to have, only good words and respect towards Eteri. I myself said that is disgraceful to blame Eteri. If you haven't noticed yet, the majority were in despair regarding the rumors of Yulia's changing the coach. I also wrote, many times here, that there is nothing wrong with Ilya's LP also. For me he has made two beautiful programs, again, this season. However, what I do not like is him spitting out to the media whatever internal problems they might have, or have had, and discuss with them Yulia's issues, especially after this very difficult period. And NO, he was not asked about her SS, tiny jumps, what does she likes to work on, and what not.

 

[Alba]

Choreographer speaks, coachs speak, they talk about points a skater need to improve.
And will there ever be a right time to criticized or point out areas in wich Julia need to improve?

How about when she is winning? No eh? :sarcasm:

Besides, since when Yulia is not criticised? Isn't that done already? Jesus, there is plenty of criticism towards her skating in this forum. There are at least, 2 or 3 topic in The Edge section where this is done. Not to mention anytime she competes. Furthermore, this one of the few fan fest topic where many express their criticism, and openly say what they don't like, towards their favorite. I've seen other fan fest speaking only about how PERFECT "their" skater is.

Now, after all both sides brought their arguments, you think Ilya was right, I don't. Can we agree to disagree on this and move on?

 

[cruzceleste]

How about when she is winning? No eh? :sarcasm:

Besides, since when Yulia is not criticised? Isn't that done already? Jesus, there is plenty of criticism towards her skating in this forum. There are at least, 2 or 3 topic in The Edge section where this is done. Not to mention anytime she competes. Furthermore, this one of the few fan fest topic where many express their criticism, and openly say what they don't like, towards their favorite. I've seen other fan fest speaking only about how PERFECT "their" skater is.

Now, after all both sides brought their arguments, you think Ilya was right, I don't. Can we agree to disagree on this and move on?

Very different to get criticized in a fan forum by fans as to have a professional that have worked with the skater to point out what is wrong wiht the skater technique/ actitud?

He is puntual in what Julia needs to work. What she likes to work. How she aproach the work. I´m sorry but I still fail to see what is so wrong with what he said.

And is now that she is not winning the perfect time to seat, look where is the problem and fix it.

 

[uhh]

That's exactly the part which doesn't fit. Yulia had problems during 2012-2013 season, especially during the first half. Therefore, the part that she might've thought leaving Eteri during that period might be true. I wasn't disputing that because I don't know, so I take his word for it. What I do not get is the story he is telling, that Eteri called him to make those programs for 2013-2014 season, basically in order to prevent Yulia leaving her, and he saved the day.

I repeat again, according to all interviews that Eteri and Yulia has given in this regard the story is that they asked different people to choreo those two programs. They struggled to find a choreographer, till Ilya accepted. So no, I do not believe that Yulia was thinking to leave Eteri in the Olympic season, and after they chose the programs.

But you don't know, you just "don't believe" and then your next logical leap must be that he is he is lying? Why would he lie? Why is it believable that she would maybe leave at some point in 2012-13 (I find that less believeable, her difficulties were due to a concussion, why would she blame the coach for that?) but a couple of months later in May / June when they would have been working on programs, you don't believe that she would? He's not saying she was thinking of leaving in say October 2013, which would make no sense.

 

[sjid]

Thanks for Yulia's statement, Alba. I really needed that. I copy it below for anyone who hasn't seen it. And what a statement. Each time she speaks she does honor to herself and all around her. I am grateful that I stumbled across this truly impressive human being.

It sounds as if everyone but Putin showed up for the meeting. I am heartened that the fed supports her with conviction, it has to be a huge boost for her morale and sense of security.

I feel certain that the rest of the puzzle will fall into place soon. Clearly she is in good hands. This will make her much stronger. Time for the champagne.

"I wasn't even considering a coaching change. After a failure at the Nationals I was considering retiring altogether. It's not a secret how hard it was to go back training after the Olympics. The season was very hard. First things didn't work and I understood I can't do a thing. I was helpless and didn't know what was happening. Perhaps it's puberty. Perhaps the tiredness. My feelings were raw and it influenced the relationship with the coach. Still, the thoughts to change coaches never crossed my mind.

We had a meeting today in the Ministry of sports with Nagornyh, the RFSF president Gorshkovy, the general director Kogdan and my coach Eteri Tutberidze.. We spoke, discussed what is next. A huge thanks for their support, for taking time to understand the situation. This season is over for me. I will be recovering and working calmly on my jumps, gliding and other elements, getting back to shape and will start fresh next season. I hope the situation taught us a lot. I trust my Eteri Tutberidze's wisdom, who was and is my coach.

Am quite disgusted with such an information throw. Someone from the rink have done it. It always surprises me how the adult people are glad to dance on someone's funeral. It's too soon though. Am not yet giving up."

 

[@nonim]

That's exactly the part which doesn't fit. Yulia had problems during 2012-2013 season, especially during the first half. Therefore, the part that she might've thought leaving Eteri during that period might be true. I wasn't disputing that because I don't know, so I take his word for it. What I do not get is the story he is telling, that Eteri called him to make those programs for 2013-2014 season, basically in order to prevent Yulia leaving her, and he saved the day.

Alba, that's not the exact Ilia's words. Ilia is telling, that Eteri asked him to help prevent Yilia leaving from skating, not her.

 

[sjid]

Alba, that's not the exact Ilia's words. Ilia is telling, that Eteri asked him to help prevent Yilia leaving from skating, not her.

This is the correct interpretation, I am 99% sure you are right. She has been ready to give up many times for many years. Clearly that is superficial, and there is an underlying strength that keeps her where she belongs.

There are 3 bonds that have shaped Yulia: mother, grandmother-nature, Eteri. To part with any of them would be to amputate a part of what she is.

 

[Alba]

Alba, that's not the exact Ilia's words. Ilia is telling, that Eteri asked him to help prevent Yilia leaving from skating, not her.

I'm reading the translation. I don't know russian.

Averbukh basically says that all of this is news for him, but he's not surprised. He says that Eteri has contacted him a year ago saying that their relationship with Yulya is very strained and that she wants to leave.

When a season doesn’t work out, skaters most often place the blame on their coach. Even Julia and Eteri already had this experience. Not just this unfortunate season, but in the season before. I remember that Eteri called me and said these words: “Julia and I are having difficulties in our relationship, she is getting ready to leave – please help me out with some good programs.”

From this I understand that she was leaving Eter, becuase he makes an analogy between now and then. He says: this is not the first time that she wants to leave. So, I suppose he was speaking about leaving the coach because the rumors this time were about Yulia leaving the coach not FS.
In anycase, it doesn't change anything, because my point is that the story of how Ilya came on board for those two program, is different according to Yulia and Eteri.

 

[Fayruza]

Ok. Perhaps someone will take Julia's word seriously. She said she didn't consider changing her coach. I can't unfortunately open the link for some reason. But that's the quote

http://fsrussia.ru/news/679-yulya-lipnitskaya-o-smene-trenera-rechi-ne-shlo.html

"Мне очень неприятно, что произошел такой вброс информации. И сделал это кто-то с нашего катка. Меня всегда удивляла реакция взрослых людей, их бурная радость плясать на чужих костях. Но они рано обрадовались. Я так быстро не сдамся"

"I find it very unpleasant that someone leaked this information. And it was done by someone from our skating rink. I've always been puzzled by adults' response, by their wild joy to dance on other people's bones. But they celebrate too early. I won't give up so soon".

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2273030&cid=7

"О смене тренера я не думала. После неудачного выступления на чемпионате России вообще хотела покинуть спорт, закончить спортивную карьеру. Все знают, как непросто мне было вернуться к тренировкам после Олимпиады. И в этом смысле этот сезон получился очень тяжелым"

I didn't consider changing the coach. After my failure at the Russian Championship I wanted to retire, end my athletic career. Everyone knows how hard it was for me to resume training after the Olympics. That's why this season was very hard".

This is outrageous, what I've seen these few days.

 

[Alba]

But you don't know, you just "don't believe" and then your next logical leap must be that he is he is lying? Why would he lie? Why is it believable that she would maybe leave at some point in 2012-13 (I find that less believeable, her difficulties were due to a concussion, why would she blame the coach for that?) but a couple of months later in May / June when they would have been working on programs, you don't believe that she would? He's not saying she was thinking of leaving in say October 2013, which would make no sense.

Oh for got sake uhh. Either my english is really bad, and it's not going to improve anytime soon, or you are completely ignoring what I'm saying here. I'll try once more to explain myself, in a more simply way.
I said he was lying about the story of how he came on board about those programs. Either he is lying or Eteri and Yulia are. This is one thing, and it's separate.

Second: I don't believe she was leaving, Eteri or FS, in May or June either. In the Olympic year, and especially after they have chose the programs. That doesn't make sense at all, for me, and that's why I don't believe it.

Very different to get criticized in a fan forum by fans as to have a professional that have worked with the skater to point out what is wrong wiht the skater technique/ actitud?

Sorry, I thought your last comment was about us, fans. As for being criticized by a Pro. who's working with that skater. I thought that is done when they work. Furthermore, it is one thing to say: he/she still has a lot to improve, here or there. It's completely different saying: there is a huge work to be done here, tiny jumps, SS, she doesn't like to work on that, she is difficult, etc.etc. Yes, I've heard Orser speak about Yuzuru, but I never thought he was criticising him in a bad way, because he was sepaking even when Yuzuru was winning. That for me is being modest, keep pushing your skater, and keep their feet on the ground. It's totally different. It's good and constructive.
By the way, I did criticise Orser - although I do looooove him, and he would be the only coach I would love Yulia to wok with, besides Eteri - when he said to the media that Yuna didn't like skating. Why? Not because I thought he was lying, because he knows her better than me, but because I thought it was tasteless and poor timing. He said that after she left him.

He is puntual in what Julia needs to work. What she likes to work. How she aproach the work. I´m sorry but I still fail to see what is so wrong with what he said. And is now that she is not winning the perfect time to seat, look where is the problem and fix it.

I don't know if it's that wrong, and in anycase he has the right to express his opinion. I think it seems a big deal because we continue to discuss about him for two days tbh.
My criticism was about some poor choice of words and bad timing. I completely agree that this is the perfect time to work on everything, and fix whatever she needs to fix. I wrote that just after the RN, if you look back in this topic. I was really hoping for her to take a break, give those exames she has now in January and start working way in advance. It's a great opportunity, IMO, and I'm happy to learn that she is going to do that. But this is to be done and discussed with your team, only. Not with the whole world.
We say here: I panni sporchi si lavano in casa. In english would be: don't wash your dirty linen in public, I think, and it doesn't mean being hypocrite. That's what I didn't like, if you understand what I mean.

 

[sjid]

From this I understand that she is leaving Eteri. Becuase he makes an analogy with now and then. He says this is not the first time that she wants to leave. I suppose he is speaking about leaving the coach because the rumors this time were not about Yulia leaving FS but the coach. In anycase, it doesn't change anything, because my point is that the story of how Ilya came on board for those two program, is different according to Yulia and Eteri.

It could be either, that's what happens when pronouns are used in strategic places. Ilya does have a thing about saving people and things. He should start with himself.

 

[Fayruza]

Second: I don't believe she was leaving, Eteri or FS, in May or June either. In the Olympic year, and especially after they have chose the programs. That doesn't make sense at all, for me, and that's why I don't believe it.

.

Alba, sorry, I remember Eteri saying herself Julia was about to leave after her 2012-2013 season. Why is there such a fuss about this?

 

[Alba]

It sounds as if everyone but Putin showed up for the meeting. I am heartened that the fed supports her with conviction, it has to be a huge boost for her morale and sense of security.

Yes. I noticed that too, and I'm very glad about it. You never know, with all those great girls they have. It takes nothing to give her for dead, even if it's just for one bad season. So, I'm really happy about that too.

 

[Alba]

Alba, sorry, I remember Eteri saying herself Julia was about to leave after her 2012-2013 season. Why is there such a fuss about this?

I don't know why the fuss about it. Because I said I don't believe that she was leaving Eteri in May 2013, after they chose the programs, but above all that's not why Ilya came on board?
In anycase, the main thing I had against Ilya for that interview though is not about this, and I already explained myself to death. But I see some keep ignoring that.

 

[sjid]

Ok. Perhaps someone will take Julia's word seriously. She said she didn't consider changing her coach. I can't unfortunately open the link for some reason. But that's the quote

http://fsrussia.ru/news/679-yulya-lipnitskaya-o-smene-trenera-rechi-ne-shlo.html

"Мне очень неприятно, что произошел такой вброс информации. И сделал это кто-то с нашего катка. Меня всегда удивляла реакция взрослых людей, их бурная радость плясать на чужих костях. Но они рано обрадовались. Я так быстро не сдамся"

"I find it very unpleasant that someone leaked this information. And it was done by someone from our skating rink. I've always been puzzled by adults' response, by their wild joy to dance on other people's bones. But they celebrate too early. I won't give up so soon".

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2273030&cid=7

"О смене тренера я не думала. После неудачного выступления на чемпионате России вообще хотела покинуть спорт, закончить спортивную карьеру. Все знают, как непросто мне было вернуться к тренировкам после Олимпиады. И в этом смысле этот сезон получился очень тяжелым"

I didn't consider changing the coach. After my failure at the Russian Championship I wanted to retire, end my athletic career. Everyone knows how hard it was for me to resume training after the Olympics. That's why this season was very hard".

This is outrageous, what I've seen these few days.

Have they ever listened to Yulia? Remember when she missed the awards ceremony? She told us, but the theories continued on and on. People like to bark. It is outrageous and it hurts her. The last part may be changing. Speaking of change, I have thought about changing my thread name to ListenToYulia. What do you think, Fayruza?

 

[Fayruza]

I don't know why the fuss about it. Because I said I don't believe that she was leaving Eteri in May 2013, after they chose the programs, and that's not why Ilya came on board?
In anycase, the main thing I had against Ilya for that interview though is not about this, and I already explained myself to death. But I see some keep ignoring that.

Where does May 2013 stem from? Where did you take that exact date?

 

[sjid]

I don't know why the fuss about it. Because I said I don't believe that she was leaving Eteri in May 2013, after they chose the programs, but above all that's not why Ilya came on board?
In anycase, the main thing I had against Ilya for that interview though is not about this, and I already explained myself to death. But I see some keep ignoring that.

I swear, Alba is always right. Even when it doesn't matter.

 

[Alba]

Where does May 2013 stem from? Where did you take that exact date?

It's not a date, it's a short period. They said we've been asking people to make the choreo for her two programs. They were struggling to find a choreo. She partecipated Worlds J. in 2013 and won silver medal. That was 25 Feb. - 3 March 2013. When was she supposed to leave her, or FS altogether as nonim suggested, March, April? When did they chose the programs? I suppose once you choose the programs you have settled whatever you need to settle?
Do you have a date, or a short period, when she wanted to leave Eteri?