Yuzuru Hanyu: 2014-15 Season

[ayarose]

I think that was just because he messed up the 3A(hand down) at Finlandia? There was no changing layout, it's the same layout as season before except for the added-L-3S and the moved 4S.

That could be true, but it could also be the original layout but then they decided 3A+x would be better/stable. My memory is kinda selective at times. Did the press con clips said that was the layout?

 

[Wo|flax]

It's 3lo-3lo. He never success that quad.

Anyways, about Yuzuru, I think the 3A 1lo 3S's BV is still higher that his 3z 1lo 3S last year without even the BV for 1lo (it's just 0.5 point) so with the 3A in place of 3Lutz, it's a huge change. And a good move.

I think the GOE potential might be bigger too

 

[Wo|flax]

That could be true, but it could also be the original layout but then they decided 3A+x would be better/stable. My memory is kinda selective at times. Did the press con clips said that was the layout?

no reason to do that he hit the all 3As in the second half all season in 2012/13, only missed one combination at SA but got the 2 3As(and that was the least of his problems that LP), and at 4CC I think doubled the 3T? but that was one of the rare competitions where he was popping (he doesn't usually pop, but when he does... it'll be at the same competition in short and long [4cc and SC 2013] lol)

idk what the presscon said

 

[SuzyQ]

His 3Lz+1Lo+3S combination in Sochi was considered as a sequence, and Takeshi Honda said it was because Yuzuru jumped newly the last one. But honestly speaking, I could not see the difference at that time clearly :scratch:, before re-viewing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUskvEAITdE

Shoma succeeded 2A+1Lo+3F in this video, and received a high mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siE4NAYcr_I

https://twitter.com/thanatosrelena/status/498349544719929345/photo/1

I think when the second single loop has a certain distance, it looks great, not seeing like a stepping out.

Edit: That's why Yuzuru's 3A+1Lo+3S looks so great

Oh, by the way, for those who miss Jazzy Yuzuru ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgSj53vK-JY&feature=youtu.be

 

[angelfacehanyu]

i never even knew the 3 combo jump where the single loop is in the middle part even existed before I saw yuzuru. up until that point i only saw ladies and regarded their jumps as "the best and the hardest" jumps because i was so bombarded by the media hype of ladies singles.

 

[arcticwolf]

His 3Lz+1Lo+3S combination in Sochi was considered as a sequence, and Takeshi Honda said it was because Yuzuru jumped newly the last one. But honestly speaking, I could not see the difference at that time clearly :scratch:, before re-viewing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUskvEAITdE

Me too. I thought it looked the same as what he did in his other competitions when the 3Lz-1Lo-3S was counted. I think Yuzuru does this sequence the best among male skaters because he doesn't make it look like a step-out from the lutz.

 

[arcticwolf]

i never even knew the 3 combo jump where the single loop is in the middle part even existed before I saw yuzuru. up until that point i only saw ladies and regarded their jumps as "the best and the hardest" jumps because i was so bombarded by the media hype of ladies singles.

Yeah, partly the reason why I like male singles skating more is the difficulty of the jumps. Though they're not that flexible, the athleticism makes up for it. And I like they're competitiveness more XD

 

[seabm7]

His 3Lz+1Lo+3S combination in Sochi was considered as a sequence, and Takeshi Honda said it was because Yuzuru jumped newly the last one. But honestly speaking, I could not see the difference at that time clearly :scratch:, before re-viewing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUskvEAITdE

You're right. Just as the British commentator explained, his stumbled on his right foot after the 1Lo. The stumble was regarded as an extra step. So the jump pass became a sequence.

 

[echotpe]

Vote Yuzu’s numbers in BS Japan’s ex program in September

BS Japan TV takes place an event for Japan Open. People can vote their favorite ice show numbers among 50 selected ones. The host will broadcast the numbers on top ranking. (It doesn’t mention how many numbers they will broadcast at last.)

Yuzu has two numbers among the list –
(#23) 2011 Romeo & Juliet and
(#46) 2008 Amazonic　死の舞踏

Event page: http://www.bs-j.co.jp/figure2014/

Well, let’s vote for Yuzu! Here is a brief instruction to vote:
* Click the red button of "投票する" (which means vote)
* Tick the No. 23 and 46
* Click the white button (投票する)
* Click the button of “送信する” (which means submit)
* Done!

 

[ayarose]

no reason to do that he hit the all 3As in the second half all season in 2012/13, only missed one combination at SA but got the 2 3As(and that was the least of his problems that LP), and at 4CC I think doubled the 3T? but that was one of the rare competitions where he was popping (he doesn't usually pop, but when he does... it'll be at the same competition in short and long [4cc and SC 2013] lol)

idk what the presscon said

What I meant was his 3A+xT combination was more stable than his 3Lo+x combination. I've looked around JSF site for the old protocols and found out that the last time Yuzu did a Lo+x combination (3Lo+2T) was during that epic 3rd place at Junior Nationals (2007, Th Firebird FS). He also did a 2A+2T+2Lo in that program. In all his edge jumps, I found his loop as his weakest, 4S might be questionable for other but his 3S is more consistent than 3Lo. His team might have revised his layout because of this since his consistency with 3A combinations are his best weapon.

BTW, since I was looking at previous protocols I found something interesting. His SP layout usually doesn't change compared to his FS layout. I actually thought NDP & R&Jv2 has a similar layout except with the order of the quads but when I reviewed the scorecards the 3 jump was actually 3Lz+2T+2T. He did it at GPF, Nationals, 4CC & Worlds. Findlandia's FS layout was also different than the GP series, it has 2 3Lz combinations instead of the 2 3A combinations. It seems to me that Team BOrser uses Senior B competitions to gauge the riskiness of the layout so I his new FS may still change layout. As BOrser said before, Yuzu never skates the same program twice, there will always be variances no matter how indistinguishable it is.

 

[unico]

...the last time Yuzu did a Lo+x combination (3Lo+2T) was during that epic 3rd place at Junior Nationals (2007, The Firebird FS). He also did a 2A+2T+2Lo in that program.

BTW, since I was looking at previous protocols I found something interesting. His SP layout usually doesn't change compared to his FS layout. I actually thought NDP & R&Jv2 has a similar layout except with the order of the quads but when I reviewed the scorecards the 3 jump was actually 3Lz+2T+2T. He did it at GPF, Nationals, 4CC & Worlds. Findlandia's FS layout was also different than the GP series, it has 2 3Lz combinations instead of the 2 3A combinations.

So he has done a 2Lo at the end of combination (granted, it was 7 years ago), interesting.

I think SP layouts change much less because they have much tighter restrictions on what solo jumps/combinations are allowed, maybe as a carryover from 6.0 when the SP used to be the "technical program". LPs aren't called the free programs for nothing (although, with Zayak rules and whatnot how free is it really lol) I think Chan helped popularize the __+1Lo+3S jump in recent years.

EDIT: Thank you echotpe for the poll, I voted! :yay:

 

[Wo|flax]

What I meant was his 3A+xT combination was more stable than his 3Lo+x combination. I've looked around JSF site for the old protocols and found out that the last time Yuzu did a Lo+x combination (3Lo+2T) was during that epic 3rd place at Junior Nationals (2007, Th Firebird FS). He also did a 2A+2T+2Lo in that program. In all his edge jumps, I found his loop as his weakest, 4S might be questionable for other but his 3S is more consistent than 3Lo. His team might have revised his layout because of this since his consistency with 3A combinations are his best weapon.

BTW, since I was looking at previous protocols I found something interesting. His SP layout usually doesn't change compared to his FS layout. I actually thought NDP & R&Jv2 has a similar layout except with the order of the quads but when I reviewed the scorecards the 3 jump was actually 3Lz+2T+2T. He did it at GPF, Nationals, 4CC & Worlds. Findlandia's FS layout was also different than the GP series, it has 2 3Lz combinations instead of the 2 3A combinations. It seems to me that Team BOrser uses Senior B competitions to gauge the riskiness of the layout so I his new FS may still change layout. As BOrser said before, Yuzu never skates the same program twice, there will always be variances no matter how indistinguishable it is.

I meant that there was no reason to try 3Lo-X in Finlandia 2013- so it must have been the mistake on the 3A that led him to do the Lo combo (i.e. I agree 3A-X is more stable)

I can't remember what happened in 2012 Finlandia- 2 3Lz combos you say? I should go watch it...later(I still haven't watched either Finlandia SP). That's interesting though, and certainly likely that BOrser (and Yuzu) uses early competitions to strategize/work things out.
Yuzu certainly seemed to learn a lot from the GP events. I think your right about that:yes:

Question: why did the 3S at olys get completely discounted and not just get 0.8 for a sequence? He didn't zayak afterall... is it because the 3S counted as a separate jumping pass? therefore he had too many jumping passes? if so, why did they cut the 3S and not the 3Lz is there something in the rules about that? All the commentators noticed the stumble, though Johnny seemed to think Yuzu had saved it (probably thought he'd get some points for it)

 

[Wo|flax]

So he has done a 2Lo at the end of combination (granted, it was 7 years ago), interesting.

SP layouts change much less because they have much tighter restrictions on what solo jumps/combinations are allowed, I think as a carryover from 6.0 when the SPs used to be the "technical program". LPs aren't called the free programs for nothing (although, with Zayak rules and whatnot how free is it really lol) I think Chan helped popularize the __+1Lo+3S jump in recent years.

Chan's Lz-L-3S at TEB was brilliant, as far as distance covered on Lo it was probably the best and I don't even like him. Jason's is good too (even though I don't understand his fall on it in the team comp- did he step out and then fall?)

Yuzu's breaking the mould with the two jump passes and 3A in second half in the SP; and apparently leading the way in it: I wonder how Joshua will do with it this season.

 

[ayarose]

I think SP layouts change much less because they have much tighter restrictions on what solo jumps/combinations are allowed, maybe as a carryover from 6.0 when the SP used to be the "technical program". LPs aren't called the free programs for nothing (although, with Zayak rules and whatnot how free is it really lol) I think Chan helped popularize the __+1Lo+3S jump in recent years.

You're probably right, I mean 3A MUST be a solo jump which leaves you with the other triple and quad to attach the combination to. Maybe if Yuzu is crazy enough he could jump the 3A last not to maximize points but just to challenge himself.

Yes he did, although when Denis Ten & Adam Rippon also tried it during that same season (2011-2012), it was underrotated.

I meant that there was no reason to try 3Lo-X in Finlandia 2013- so it must have been the mistake on the 3A that led him to do the Lo combo (i.e. I agree 3A-X is more stable)

I can't remember what happened in 2012 Finlandia- 2 3Lz combos you say? I should go watch it...later(I still haven't watched either Finlandia SP). That's interesting though, and certainly likely that BOrser (and Yuzu) uses early competitions to strategize/work things out.
Yuzu certainly seemed to learn a lot from the GP events. I think your right about that:yes:

Question: why did the 3S at olys get completely discounted and not just get 0.8 for a sequence? He didn't zayak afterall... is it because the 3S counted as a separate jumping pass? therefore he had too many jumping passes? if so, why did they cut the 3S and not the 3Lz is there something in the rules about that? All the commentators noticed the stumble, though Johnny seemed to think Yuzu had saved it (probably thought he'd get some points for it)

That is why I was just speculating that the layout for Findlandia 13 was the initial layout and they later change it for the GP like the previous year. I think ever since he Zayaked at COR in 2010 he had contingency plans if he fails a jump or combi. We may never actually know the original layout unless we could get a hand on Yuzu's handy dandy notebook with his color coded and symbol coded notes.

In a jump considered as a sequence, the jump(s) before it become a sequence are the only one given points. That's what can I make out of the protocols so if anyone knows better feel free to correct or add info. I haven't really read the technical guidelines word for word.

Ex. 4T+3A as a seq in the first half (4T+SEQ in protocol) = 8.24 (80% of 4T)
Yuzu's Olympic FS: 3Lz+1Lo+SEQ= 5.72 (3Lz+1Lo x 1.1 x 80%)
Max Aaron WC2014 FS: 3A+SEQ= 7.48 (3A x 1.1 x 80%)

 

[unico]

Chan's Lz-L-3S at TEB was brilliant, as far as distance covered on Lo it was probably the best and I don't even like him. Jason's is good too (even though I don't understand his fall on it in the team comp- did he step out and then fall?)

Yuzu's breaking the mould with the two jump passes and 3A in second half in the SP; and apparently leading the way in it: I wonder how Joshua will do with it this season.

Guess which other Japanese figure skating star had a great axel-1Lo-3S combination!!

I'm sure many coaches/skaters took notice of how Hanyu's axels were significant in his victories last season. (I guess it must help that Farris says that Hanyu's one of his favourite skaters. And they're skating at both CoC and NHK!)

 

[ayarose]

Guess which other Japanese figure skating star had a great axel-1Lo-3S combination!!

Thanks for that, it make sense. The best 3A in ladies also had the same combo as Yuzu. Daredevils!

 

[HanDomi]

Guess which other Japanese figure skating star had a great axel-1Lo-3S combination!!

I'm sure many coaches/skaters took notice of how Hanyu's axels were significant in his victories last season. (I guess it must help that Farris says that Hanyu's one of his favourite skaters. And they're skating at both CoC and NHK!)

I think everyone knows that but it is just easy to say. 3A is very hard jump for most of the skaters and then plan 2x 3A combinations in 2nd half of long program. It is not so easy to do. If it would be then everyone would be doing that : ) . Yuzuru seems to have special connection with 3A because it just looks the easiest jump for him to do




Re: Finlandia 2013 . I am sure he was planning 3A-3T, but he had bad landing on 3A with hand down , that's why he had to put somewhere else combination

 

[SuzyQ]

I meant that there was no reason to try 3Lo-X in Finlandia 2013- so it must have been the mistake on the 3A that led him to do the Lo combo (i.e. I agree 3A-X is more stable)

I can't remember what happened in 2012 Finlandia- 2 3Lz combos you say? I should go watch it...later(I still haven't watched either Finlandia SP). That's interesting though, and certainly likely that BOrser (and Yuzu) uses early competitions to strategize/work things out.
Yuzu certainly seemed to learn a lot from the GP events. I think your right about that:yes:

Question: why did the 3S at olys get completely discounted and not just get 0.8 for a sequence? He didn't zayak afterall... is it because the 3S counted as a separate jumping pass? therefore he had too many jumping passes? if so, why did they cut the 3S and not the 3Lz is there something in the rules about that? All the commentators noticed the stumble, though Johnny seemed to think Yuzu had saved it (probably thought he'd get some points for it)

I could find the explanation about Yuzuru's sequence in Sochi only in Japanese.

http://mansiontokyo.blog9.fc2.com/blog-entry-2354.html

This blogger says she could not find this in ISU's rule book, that is, in English. (I think it should be somewhere though.)

・ジャンプコンビネーション：着氷した足でそのまま次のジャンプを跳ぶ2連続または3連続ジャンプ、もしくは1つ目のジャンプの後にハーフループを挟んだ3連続ジャンプ。基礎点は跳んだそれぞれのジャンプの合計。（ただし、ハーフループはシングルループの基礎点をもらえる。）

・ジャンプシークエンス：ジャンプのリズムを保ったままホップや表外ジャンプ（基礎点のないジャンプ）でつないだ連続ジャンプ。ステップやターンでつないではいけない。コンビネーションの基礎点はそれぞれのジャンプの合計なのに対し、シークエンスはそれぞれのジャンプのうち、もっとも基礎点の高いジャンプ2つの基礎点の合計に0.8を掛けた数字が基礎点となる。

ジャンプコンビネーションは着氷の足でそのまま次のジャンプを跳ぶか、ハーフループを挟んですぐに次のジャンプを跳ぶ3連続ジャンプでなければいけません。が、羽生選手はハーフループの後、すぐに3つ目のジャンプを跳べませんでした。

このため、この3連続ジャンプがジャンプコンビネーションと見なされませんでした。

ジャンプコンビネーションと見なされないとジャンプシークエンス扱いになってしまうのです。

さらに、ジャンプシークエンスには「ジャンプのリズムを保ったままホップや表外ジャンプ（基礎点のないジャンプ）でつないだ連続ジャンプ」という決まりがあります。

ハーフループの後の3回転サルコウへの流れが悪かったため、「ジャンプのリズムを保った」と判断されませんでした。

ジャンプシークエンスの場合、ジャンプのリズムを保ってつなぐことができなかったそのあとのジャンプはすべて無視されてしまいます。

よって、このジャンプシークエンスは「3回転ルッツ＋ハーフループ＋3回転サルコウ」のシークエンスではなく、「3回転ルッツ＋ハーフループ」の2連続のシークエンスとして扱われてしまいました。

ジャンプコンビネーションまたはジャンプシークエンスの中で跳んだハーフループは1回転ループとして扱われるので、基礎点は0.5点。3回転ルッツの基礎点は6.0で、3回転サルコウは4.2点です。

It is difficult for me to translate the whole instantly. Could anyone give a try, please?

The conclusion is, for a sequence, two jumps of the highest marks x 0.8 is the point the skater can usually get. (He could have received 3Lz+3S x 0.8 in this case.) And also, the sequence needs a certain jumping rhythm to proceed to the next jump. But, Yuzuru's sequence was without a proper rhythm in connecting to 3S, and in that case, the jump after that is omitted. So, he could get 3Lz+1Lo x 0.8.

Protocol of Sochi LP:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Men_FS_Scores.pdf


Protocol of GPF:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1314/gpf1314_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

 

[seabm7]

In a jump considered as a sequence, the jump(s) before it become a sequence are the only one given points. That's what can I make out of the protocols so if anyone knows better feel free to correct or add info. I haven't really read the technical guidelines word for word.

My understanding is that the way to calculate points for a planned sequence and for a failed-combination-became-sequence are different. For a planned sequence, they sum up the points of two highest-value jumps out of all the jumps used in the sequence, then multiply by 80%.

Here is the corresponding sentence from the rulebook (The 2012-2013 version I found from the wikipedia entry).
https://web.archive.org/web/2013051...11040,4844-197593-214816-125742-0-file,00.pdf

Fall/step out or touch down with free foot with weight transfer after a jump plus another jump

If a skater falls or steps out on a jump and immediately after that executes another jump, the element does not remain a jump combination and will be called as follows:

Short Program: “First Jump + Combo”; the continuation will be ignored by the Technical Panel.

Free Skating: “First Jump + Sequence” (or “First Jump + Second Jump + Sequence” if the definition of a sequence is still fulfilled). The same applies to a jump combination of 3 jumps.

According to his olympic FS protocol, he got 3Lz+1Lo+Seq in the second half of the program. So the base value is (6.0 + 0.5) * 0.8 * 1.1 = 5.72

 

[SuzyQ]

According to his olympic FS protocol, he got 3Lz+1Lo+Seq in the second half of the program. So the base value is (6.0 + 0.5) * 0.8 * 1.1 = 5.72

Oh, you are right. Then, his sequence in Sochi was 3Lz+1Lo+sequence in any case.

Edit:

I found this :

http://static.isu.org/media/79156/2012_specialregulations_technicalrules_singleandpair_icedance.pdf

Page 18, Rule 353 Determination and publication of results
1. Basic Principles of Calculation:

h) In Single and Pair Skating:
i) Jump combinations are evaluated as one unit by adding the base values of the jumps included and applying the GOE with the numerical value of the most difficult jump.
ii) Jump sequences are evaluated as one unit by adding the base values of the two highest value jumps, multiplying the result by 0.8 and after that applying the GOE with the numerical value of the most difficult jump. The factored base value of the jump sequence will be rounded to two decimal places.

After all, what I have got is;
:scratch: :scratch:

But as it is a failed combination jump, what you referred is applied, I think.