Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

[Sorrento]

Sorry I don't watch every fan made video that is posted in here, have you seen this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jizWMwOzn0&feature=youtu.be The first costume is just :luv17: on Yuzu.
This one: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgVCqReVIAUYSUf.jpg:large

 

[gsyzf]

I think this is the season he delivered the most "clean" performances? Compared to previous seasons i meant. He used to barely performed clean free before. If anything i still see him making tremendous improvement this season.

Yuzu's clean performances in past seasons:
2014-2015: 1 LP (if we count his LP at WTT as clean, he had one pop.)
2013-2014: 5 SP, 1 LP (Even though his WC LP was clean, the execution quality wasn't great.)
2012-2013; 3 SP, 1 LP (if we count his GPF LP as clean, he had one pop.)
2011-2012: none
2010-2011: 4 SP

In general, he can give 3-4 clean SPs each season if he doesn't struggle with any jump. (He gave 5 clean SPs in the Olympic season because there was an extra team competition.) He couldn't give any clean SP in 2011-2012 and 2014-2015 seasons because he struggled with 4t3t in 2011-2012 season and 3lz3t in 2014-2015 season.

The biggest improvement is the number of clean LPs he gives. In the past, he rarely had any clean LPs. Even the clean LPs he gave were not really clean with good quality.

 

[giulia95]

That's why he needs to go for even harder layout. If he can do 10, he should aim for 11 or 12, not 9 or 10. If he can do clean LPs so often, then the difficulty of the program is only at the level of 9 or 10. It's not hard enough to challenge him any more. People's expectations are pressure.

This is exactly what he decided to do after SC SP and proved his coach and the the whole world he was right. To set the bar higher and higher is what he used to do in his young days, like performing counter-3A at 16. After 5 years he's still the only one who is able to do it in competition.

 

[mcq]

It depends on what you mean by "clean". Clean meaning absolutely clean? Or not falling nor popping jumps? Shoma had clean a FS at SA and the GPF (you could even count JO). If you go by the second criteria, Javier had a clean FS at the GPF (he had a turn out on his 4T) and a clean SP at Euros (slight turn out on his combo). And Shoma had a clean SP at TEB.
But I agree, no one had as many clean performances this season as Yuzu did that could balance insane tech, performance, SS, etc. And he was absolutely clean. It's not easy by any means, even for him. But it was only natural that people would have higher expectations for him, given that he showed what he's capable of....twice. And now everyone is upping their game to catch up to him next season, but he always wants to be a step ahead, so perhaps he might consider a 4 quad FS. Though I think that would depend on his injury for the 4T and the general consistency of his 4Lo.

Yuzu's clean performances in past seasons:
2014-2015: 1 LP (if we count his LP at WTT as clean, he had one pop.)
2013-2014: 5 SP, 1 LP (Even though his WC LP was clean, the execution quality wasn't great.)
2012-2013; 3 SP, 1 LP (if we count his GPF LP as clean, he had one pop.)
2011-2012: none
2010-2011: 4 SP

In general, he can give 3-4 clean SPs each season if he doesn't struggle with any jump. (He gave 5 clean SPs in the Olympic season because there was an extra team competition.) He couldn't give any clean SP in 2011-2012 and 2014-2015 seasons because he struggled with 4t3t in 2011-2012 season and 3lz3t in 2014-2015 season.

The biggest improvement is the number of clean LPs he gives. In the past, he rarely had any clean LPs. Even the clean LPs he gave were not really clean with good quality.

True. He seems to struggle more with his LP. Even the clean LP at his WC 2014 he hung on to his 4S iirc. The other cleanish LP you mentioned had a pop. Hope he can increase his clean program hit rate next season

 

[Fayruza]

True. He seems to struggle more with his LP. Even the clean LP at his WC 2014 he hung on to his 4S iirc. The other cleanish LP you mentioned had a pop. Hope he can increase his clean program hit rate next season

given his stamina issues, it's understandable why he had problems with his LP. In fact, he only got rid of it last season. Or even this season...

 

[gsyzf]

given his stamina issues, it's understandable why he had problems with his LP. In fact, he only got rid of it last season. Or even this season...

I actually don't mind him struggle with his LP a bit through out the season. Too many clean LPs will lead to huge pressure on him. He needs to have good SP performance so he is still in medal contention, so I don't hope to see him struggle with his SP too much.

 

[kiches]

You know I often wondered what Yuzu's FS layout would've been this year if the collision and surgery hadn't happened in the 2014-2015 season. Given how he skated at the 2014 GPF, I think without these difficulties he would've performed Phantom of the Opera cleanly at least once with the 3 quads and 2 triple axels in the second half and probably would've upped his tech content in the FS for 2015-2016. I wonder if 4 quads or the 4L would've made it into SEIMEI if things had gone closer to planned during the post Olympic season.

 

[Fayruza]

You know I often wondered what Yuzu's FS layout would've been this year if the collision and surgery hadn't happened in the 2014-2015 season. Given how he skated at the 2014 GPF, I think without these difficulties he would've performed Phantom of the Opera cleanly at least once with the 3 quads and 2 triple axels in the second half and probably would've upped his tech content in the FS for 2015-2016. I wonder if 4 quads or the 4L would've made it into SEIMEI if things had gone closer to planned during the post Olympic season.

I keep wondering about the same things. What would have happened if that collision had never taken place...

 

[Lambari]

A 4 quad LP is just shooting himself on the foot, I don't know why people are even considering it for Hanyu. If he comes up with this I'll be certainly suprised, for sure, he doesn't need that and he knows it, I've never read anything from him even suggesting this. That's why his next step seems to be using the 4Loop as a substitute for the first quad, and/or moving another quad to the second half of the program, this is what I've read in a recent interview of his a couple of days ago I think. He doesn't "need either strategy in order to win, he just needs to focus on execute what he does best cleanly and keep his head together when it matter the most, but we know he doesn't want to stand still technically, it's a risky move but it's just in his character as an athlete, we'll see how this will evolve. Javier seems to be capable of both 4loop and 4Lz, he doesn't add because it's not in his character and he knows he's capable of beating Hanyu any day with his current layout as we know. Boyang is an exception and it's no surprise for me that his 4 quad LP is lacking as program (hopefully he will improve in this area). Hanyu seems to focus more on being a technically sound and ambitious skater yes, but a complete one and I'm glad for this. He expressed his desire to achieve level 4 step sequence the whole season and said that he will be focusing even more on skating skills if I remember correctly.

 

[Meoima]

A 4 quad LP is just shooting himself on the foot, I don't know why people are even considering it for Hanyu. If he comes up with this I'll be certainly suprised, for sure, he doesn't need that and he knows it, I've never read anything from him even suggesting this. That's why his next step seems to be using the 4Loop as a substitute for the first quad, and/or more quad at the second half of the program. He doesn't "need either strategy in order to win, he just needs to focus on execute what he does best cleanly and keep his head together when it matter the most, but we know he doesn't want to stand still technically, it's a risky move but it's just in his character as an athlete, we'll see how this will evolve. Javier seems to be capable of both 4loop and 4Lz, he doesn't add because it's not in his character and he knows he's capable of beating Hanyu any day with his current layout as we know. Boyang is an exception and it's no surprise for me that his 4 quad LP is lacking as program (hopefully he will improve in this area). Hanyu seems to focus more on being a technically sound and ambitious skater yes, but a complete one and I'm glad for this. He expressed his desire to achieve level 4 step sequence the whole season and said that he will be focusing even more on skating skills if I remember correctly.

After freezing Javi's 3Lz over and over again (I have done this from last season). I am sure that Javi can never do a true 4lz. As for why... His lutz technique might be the worst I have ever seen from top men. His none pick foot practically shift down to the back side of the blade once he took off with some big pre rotation. If Javi wants to take risk, he might go for a 4F, not 4lz because the 3lz cost him so much to do. Had he not been a strong man, I don't think he can jump a lutz that way (because the technique is just wrong). Javi does have a good 3Lo so maybe he can try 4lo. But I have to say Javi's other triples in general are not as good as his quads (4T and 4S).

Yuzuru will definitely do 4lo in competition because he said so. And I am sure he will do at least 4 quads in Olympic because he intends to do 2 quads in second half. There is a reason for 2 quads in the second half and that might lead to 4 quads LP overall. I am not sure about 4lz from Yuzuru but given the fact that his lutz issue come from no pre rotation at all, he does have a strong and pure lutz edge, so maybe he can do 4lz eventually, who knows.

 

[Lambari]

After freezing Javi's 3Lz over and over again (I have done this from last season). I am sure that Javi can never do a true 4lz. As for why... His lutz technique might be the worst I have ever seen from top men. His none pick foot practically shift down to the back side of the blade once he took off with some big pre rotation. If Javi wants to take risk, he might go for a 4F, not 4lz because the 3lz cost him so much to do. Had he not been a strong man, I don't think he can jump a lutz that way (because the technique is just wrong). Javi does have a good 3Lo so maybe he can try 4lo. But I have to say Javi's other triples in general are not as good as his quads (4T and 4S).

Yuzuru will definitely do 4lo in competition because he said so. And I am sure he will do at least 4 quads in Olympic because he intends to do 2 quads in second half. There is a reason for 2 quads in the second half and that might lead to 4 quads LP overall. I am not sure about 4lz from Yuzuru but given the fact that his lutz issue come from no pre rotation at all, he does have a strong and pure lutz edge, so maybe he can do 4lz eventually, who knows.

My comment is based on what I've read from his interviews at the moment and what I've also read about Javier's quad abilities, of course I don't know if it's true, none of us is training with him in order to know it. What I understood is that Hanyu will just move another quad to the second half while keeping 3 quads in total, not add another one and move it to the second half. I'm speaking about his plans for the 2016-2017 season, seems reasonable to assume that this is the plan that he will stick for the Olympics, since the Olympic season is not one to take much risks, in my opinion I don't think this will lead to a 4 quad LP. But the plans for 2017-2018 are just pure speculation from everyone here including myself in this comment, I don't remember any word from him addresing this. In my opinion his biggest shortcoming until the Olympics will be dealing with the pressure and learning to skate his best independent of the LP draw and that's something even more difficult than any quad in my opinion because it's mental. If the pressure coming to this Worlds championship was big, the one at the Olympics will be 10x bigger. Yuzuru seems to be already thinking about those issues.

 

[Meoima]

My comment is based on what I've read from his interviews at the moment and what I've also read about Javier's quad abilities, of course I doesn't know if it's true, none of us is training with him in order to know it, What I understood is that he will just move another quad to the second half while keeping 3 quads in total, not add another one and move it to the second half. I'm speaking about his plans for the 2016-2017 season, seems reasonable to assume that this is the plan that he will stick for the Olympics, since the Olympic season is not one to take much risks, in my opinion I don't think this will lead to a 4 quad LP. But the plans for 2017-2018 are just pure speculation from everyone here including myself in this comment, I don't remember any word from him addresing this. In my opinion his biggest shortcoming until the Olympics will be dealing with the pressure and learning to skate his best independent of the LP draw. If the pressure coming to this Worlds championship was big, the one at the Olympics will be 10x bigger. Yuzuru seems to be already thinking about those issues.

My comment is from what I actually have seen and judged from slow motion and frozen frames. I'm sure if anyone can do 4lz, it should be a man with pure lutz technique, not someone with flawed lutz. This has to do with technical issue. For I am sure Evegnia will never jump a true 3A because her 2A is bad.
And Yuzuru must have known what happened to Yuna at Sochi when she didn't upgrade her jump layout. And what happened to Patrick when he upgraded his layout too late.
I'm saying this as a fan, Yuzuru must have 4 quads at least in the next Olympic. And he should be the one with highest BV (or if not highest, maybe second highest and the margin shouldn't be too big) in the next Olympic.
Because by Olympic, PCS will not be there to save any of the top contenders. Whoever will win is by the BV (and how clean they're) mostly.
And he said he will do 4Lo (for sure) and there will be 2nd quad in second half of the LP. That doesn't mean he will only do 3 quads for the whole season.
If he only bring 3 quads to the next Olympic, the chance is that judges will drop him even if he were clean. Keyword: Yuna at Sochi.

 

[Lambari]

My comment is from what I actually have seen and judged from slow motion and frozen frames. I'm sure if anyone can do 4lz, it should be a man with pure lutz technique, not someone with flawed lutz. This has to do with technical issue. For I am sure Evegnia will never jump a true 3A because her 2A is bad.
And Yuzuru must have known what happened to Yuna at Sochi when she didn't upgrade her jump layout. And what happened to Patrick when he upgraded his layout too late.
I'm saying this as a fan, Yuzuru must have 4 quads at least in the next Olympic. And he should be the one with highest BV (or if not highest, maybe second highest) in the next Olympic.
Because by Olympic, PCS will not be there to save any of the top contenders. Whoever will win is by the BV (and how clean they're) mostly.
If he only bring 3 quads to the next Olympic, the chance is that judges will drop him even if he were clean. Keyword: Yuna at Sochi.

Yuzuru himself said that he's terrible at the 2A yet he has one of the if not the best 3A with the most difficult entrances of the world, just to give you a (quite extreme) example. Yuna (and Patrick) received the highest PCS in Sochi, even with the bump on Adelina's PCS but I don't want to enter in this tired discussion. I just don't think that just by freeze framing Javier's 3Lz we can assume that all of the talk from his coaches, from Javier and Yuzuru himself were just not true, I prefer to believe their claims since we're all just airmchair especialists. Yuzuru will be the reigning Olympic champion, hopefully a record holder and one the best skaters in the history of the sport, any talk about him possibly being "dumped" is just pure speculation. I prefer to work with the present and by now the judges seems to like Yuzuru just fine as we've seen. I prefer to believe that Yuzuru is a smart athlete and like to plan his layouts and career according to his real capabilities and step by step, not by what PCS he might or might not receive in the Olympics.

 

[alia jackson]

Look at this costume and the back....Yuzu's

 

[Meoima]

Yuzuru himself said that he's terrible at the 2A yet he has one of the if not the best 3A with the most difficult entrances of the world, just to give you a (quite extreme) example. Yuna (and Patrick) received the highest PCS in Sochi, even with the bump on Adelina's PCS but I don't want to enter in this tired discussion. I just don't think that just by freeze framing Javier's 3Lz we can assume that all of the talk from his coaches, from Javier and Yuzuru himself were just not true, I prefer to believe their claims since we're all just airmchair especialists. Yuzuru will be the reigning Olympic champion, hopefully a record holder and one the best skaters in the history of the sport, any talk about him possibly being "dumped" is just pure speculation. I prefer to work with the present and by now the judges seems to like Yuzuru just fine as we've seen. I prefer to believe that Yuzuru is a smart athlete and like to plain his layouts and career according to his real capabilities and step by step, not by what PCS he might or might not receive in the Olympics.

Yuzuru's 2A wasn't bad by any means. When he still had to jump it, it was good. He just doesn't jump 2A anymore. I think you should take into account that he is a great axel jumper. When he said he wasn't good at 2A, it doesn't mean his Axel technique is bad. I'm sure he can do 2A very well if he tries.
And please I have never seen Orser saying that Javi will do 4lz. And with that 3lz technique (which is almost a flutz) I am not surprised he will never do it.

And Yuna was the record holder, reigning Olympic and WC champion at Sochi. And we all know what happened. Judges won't drop Yuzuru once he skates well. But they will give other skaters with higher BV huge scores same as him. Patrick and Yuna did get highest PCS at Sochi but the gap between them and others wasn't as big as before that.

I am sure by the time of Olympic, all top skaters' PCS will be inflated as high as other to the point you almost don't see the difference between their PCS at all.

Yuzuru only has one way to overcome this, to have the highest or 2nd highest BV (and it shouldn't be too much of a gap).

 

[Pamigena]

Look at this costume and the back....Yuzu's

he now inspires costume malfunctions? some of those fanboys are just too much

 

[Lambari]

Yuzuru's 2A wasn't bad by any means. When he still had to jump it, it was good. He just doesn't jump 2A anymore. I think you should take into account that he is a great axel jumper. When he said he wasn't good at 2A, it doesn't mean his Axel technique is bad. I'm sure he can do 2A very well if he tries.
And please I have never seen Orser saying that Javi will do 4lz. And with that 3lz technique (which is almost a flutz) I am not surprised he will never do it.

And Yuna was the record holder, reigning Olympic and WC champion at Sochi. And we all know what happened. Judges won't drop Yuzuru once he skates well. But they will give other skaters with higher BV huge scores same as him. Patrick and Yuna did get highest PCS at Sochi but the gap between them and others wasn't as big as before that.

I am sure by the time of Olympic, all top skaters' PCS will be inflated as high as other to the point you almost don't see the difference between their PCS at all.

Yuzuru only has one way to overcome this, to have the highest or 2nd highest BV (and it shouldn't be too much of a gap).

Of course it wasn't as big but Yuna and Patrick weren't "dumped" by any means they still received extremely high PCS, it was just that other skaters received judges-love in order to become contenders while being more technically ambitious, quite a different situation, but this always happens, what's new? It's just stating the obvious. Yuzuru himself received a bump on the PCS at GPF to (rightfully) beat Patrick anyway, and only then became a contender for the Olympic gold which seemed to be just a one man Patrick show before that. I just don't think it's worth for Yuzuru to ocupy his mind with this, he of course knows it happens, all skaters know. Just concentrate on his own skating, he's already upping his content at his own rythm. Throughout these 2 years Yuzuru will probably be a technically sound skater barring injury, so he'll have a BV worth of the top, he just needs to draw the line. Any BV of the world won't be enough if he doesn't skate his best anyway. For his standards of course since I doubt he wants to win Olympics again with a flawed performance. Conclusion: Mental and preparation is the key when there are things (judging) you can't control. Peace.

 

[Lambari]

Look at this costume and the back....Yuzu's

Lol, What is the name of the skater?

 

[Meoima]

Of course it wasn't as big but Yuna and Patrick weren't "bumped" by any means they still received extremely high PCS, it was just that other skaters received judges-love in order to become contenders while being more technically ambitious, quite a different situation, but this always happens, what's new? Let's not pretend that Yuzuru didn't receive a bump on the PCS at GPF to (rightfully) beat Patrick, and only then became a contender for the Olympic gold which seemed to be just a one man Patrick show before that. I just don't think it's worth for Yuzuru to ocupy his mind with this, just concentrate on his own skating, he's already upping his content at his own rythm. Throughout these 2 years Yuzuru will probably be a technically sound skater barring injury, so he'll have a BV worth of the top, he just needs to draw the line. Any BV of the world won't be enough if he doesn't skate his best anyway. For his standards of course since I doubt he wants to win Olympics again with a flawed performances. Conclusion: Mental and preparation is the key when there are things (judging) you can't control. Peace.

Oh please you don't get it don't you? Did Yuna skate clean at Olympic? Wasn't her mental so amazing? What happened?
Yuzuru needs to develop strong mentality, for sure. But it's only 50%. Along with that mentality he must get highest BV or if not the highest BV, it shouldn't be a huge gap between his Bv and others. If the highest BV is 105, then his Bv should be equal or 104.
Because by Olympic they won't give him 10 or even just 5 gap in PCS compared to the rest. They might still give him highest PCS but the rest will get like just less than 2 points difference or maybe not even 1. My point is, he needs both the highest BV and best mentality.

 

[Lambari]

Oh please you don't get it don't you? Did Yuna skate clean at Olympic? Wasn't her mental so amazing? What happened?
Yuzuru needs to develop strong mentality, for sure. But it's only 50%. Along with that mentality he must get highest BV or if not the highest BV, it shouldn't be a huge gap between his Bv and others. If the highest BV is 105, then his Bv should be equal or 104.
Because by Olympic they won't give him 10 or even just 5 gap in PCS compared to the rest. They might still give him highest PCS but the rest will get like just less than 2 points difference or maybe not even 1. My point is, he needs both the highest BV and best mentality.

Sochi was Sochi. Pyeongchang will be Pyeonchang. Yuna and Hanyu have extremely different strategies, not to mention that those are different disciplines with different rates of technnical advance. Of course highest BV and strong mentality would be the dream, I agree, for any skater actually. Don't worry Meoima, he's taking care of that, isn't he already upping his content for the delight or some and the worry of others? Only he knows what's best for him and he will take the consequences of whatever he chooses, the rest are only outside opinions, including mine. I suggest we should concentrate on the off season and what costumes he will wear. :yay: