Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

[nagini]

I've been thinking: is the layout of SEIMEI too easy for Yuzu? He skated that program clean in the 2nd GP and had clean run through almost every day.

In 2012-2013 and 2013-2014, he struggled with his LP throughout the seasons and only skated his LP somewhat clean until the end of the season. That makes his LPs in those two season awkward to watch, but they keep him challenged until the end of the season. So the layouts of those two LPs are good challenges for him given his skills at that time.

SEIMEI is technically the most difficult program ever, but if he could execute that program in his 2nd GP and had clean run-through every day, then that layout is too easy given Yuzu's skill now. He was not challenged by that layout after GPF any more. (I was a bit surprised he had a clean LP in the 2nd GP already. I was expecting him to somewhat struggle with the LP throughout the season and only skates clean at the end of the season.)

Once he skates his LP clean, everyone's expectation is that he should skate perfect in the future too. Given his personality, it's much easier for him to attack than to defend. (I actually it's very difficulty for him to defend given his personality. POTO's layout is also too easy for him since he watered down the tech.) Once everyone has the expectation he should be perfect, he also became cautious in upgrading his layout.

I think he needs a layout that can keep him challenged until the end of the season (like 4 quad), so he can attack in every competition without feeling the pressure to defend.

I think SEIMEI had a good layout for Yuzu. It gave him the possibility to understand what he is capable of. I don't think any layout is easy as every performance is different every time. As for actors it depends on the mood, emotion, the place and the crowd's energy. Therefore no matter how well one knows the lyrics, the script or the step sequence the performance will be challenging anyway.

You're right once someone reaches their best the expectations for them are rising as well. Knowing Yuzu he will challenge himself and add some crazy stuff to his new programs. All we have to do is just wait and see.

 

[Lys]

And how many guys out there would have 5 quads with quality and difficulty (almost every jump in second half, difficult transitions in and out of jumps, difficult positions in spins etc.) that Yuzu has now? Two? Maybe three? I know we all see Yuzuru as a huge talent that happens once in years (if not decades) but let's be realistic here....2 quads in SP (one in second half) and 3 quads (two in second half with two 3A) executed with Yuzu's quality is going to be more than enough to win next Olympics.

That if quality is rewarded as it shoud.
As we have seen from this year GOE crazyness, you land the jump you got the bonus (the more you land clean, the more bonus you get) Who cares about the actual quality? Not judges, it seems.

That said, I don't know if Yuzu will go for 4 quads next year or the Olympic one, but I do know his layout next year will be harder than this year because this is the way he has always worked. Upgrading his tech content and his goals.
There are skaters who feel more comfortable with certain routines and need a push from the outside to put on the table new things (Javi, Patrick), there are skaters who feel more comfortable pushing themselves up and up (Yuzu, I think Shoma is the same). To each, each own. They are the ones out there, they are the ones who need to feel comfortable in what they are doing

(but please no David Wilson choreo next year, please no )

 

[Meoima]

That if quality is rewarded as it shoud.
As we have seen from this year GOE crazyness, you land the jump you got the bonus (the more you land clean, the more bonus you get) Who cares about the actual quality? Not judges, it seems.

That's my point. At one time I don't even know which is the criteria for +3 GOE at all because everyone is getting it. Does that mean everyone has the same quality? (Ok not everyone but all top contenders)

That said, I don't know if Yuzu will go for 4 quads next year or the Olympic one, but I do know his layout next year will be harder than this year because this is the way he has always worked. Upgrading his tech content and his goals.

he will do 2 quads in the second half. And his 3F is not likely to change. So I think it's safe to assume he will eventually bring 4 quads. 2 in the first half, then 3F, then 2 in the second half.

but please no David Wilson choreo next year, please no )

David Wilson doing an SP is ok I think. It's the Lp the issue.

 

[danni]

Cause yuzuru needs to be toned down while javier needs to be challenged?
Brian did say in an interview that in the beginning he suggested yuzu to reduce his training hours and javi to increase it? (I forgot where I read this, maybe someone can remind me)

I believe in an interview on Tumblr Angelic Yuzuru.
I found this programme and I ask you : at 14 years who was the Japan Champion in 2008 ? :luv17:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyrKPs9U-Zs&list=PLXtQYbae27_52cStgbsfgaM-RUev_v0nk&index=33
With the same FP but with two 3A he won the World Junior in 2009.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2ldzvTGgw
And another great FP, in 2013 when he was ill before Worlds and he was in 4 th place after a great fight in FP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A2Fk32p_K0
Great memories, aren't they ?

edit: a better quality for 2010 WJC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6bTUsWZ8PA

 

[JuliettaG]

I've been translating a interview of Javi on a spanish radio. The interviewer asked about Yuzu this:

Q: Other thing that surprises me about your sport. You train with your biggest rival, don’t you? How Brian Orser can handle to train both of you? I guess he trains you in the same way, he says that he’s like a father for you. How is it to train with your rival, at the same ice rink, the same hours?
A: Figure skating is a sport which we don’t have to compete face to face, you compete against yourself, and then the judges decide who wins. We use our way of training together as benefit for our trainings. Yuzuru learns things from me, I learn things from him, if he strives more then I try too. We use this situation as something positive to improve even more.

In Spain everything is football and then football, and there the rivalry is huge. I think it's for that reason that the interviewer doesn't understand that Javi and Yuzu can train together. But reading this I think is a good thing for both of them. They push each other.

 

[gsyzf]

That said, I don't know if Yuzu will go for 4 quads next year or the Olympic one, but I do know his layout next year will be harder than this year because this is the way he has always worked. Upgrading his tech content and his goals.

It doesn't make much sense to do 3 quads with 2 quads in the 2nd half. He won't gain any extra points for doing that because although he gets 10% bonus for the 2nd half, he would very likely get lower GOE for the 2nd quad in the 2nd half. The risk is not worth the reward. 2 quads in the 2nd half is more likely a preparation for a 4 quad LP.

He plans to add 4Lo and do 2 quads in the 2nd half. That's two major changes already. If he does 4 quads, it means 3 major changes to the LP. (He might change the layout of his SP too.) So he might not make 3 changes all at once. I think once he is more comfortable with 4Lo and 2 quads in the 2nd half, he will add one extra quad in the 1st half. (I think he is more likely to start doing 4 quads in the 2nd half of 2016-2017 season than in the Olympic season.)

 

[Marin]

It doesn't make much sense to do 3 quads with 2 quads in the 2nd half. He won't gain any extra points for doing that because although he gets 10% bonus for the 2nd half, he would very likely get lower GOE for the 2nd quad in the 2nd half. The risk is not worth the reward. 2 quads in the 2nd half is more likely a preparation for a 4 quad LP.

He plans to add 4Lo and do 2 quads in the 2nd half. That's two major changes already. If he does 4 quads, it means 3 major changes to the LP. (He might change the layout of his SP too.) So he might not make 3 changes all at once. I think once he is more comfortable with 4Lo and 2 quads in the 2nd half, he will add one extra quad in the 1st half. (I think he is more likely to start doing 4 quads in the 2nd half of 2016-2017 season than in the Olympic season.)

Yeah I think so too, there is no way that he will stick current layout .

 

[Sorrento]

Watever happens I hope Yuzuru never leaves Brian. No matter what Brian said during Worlds 2016 Javier success Brian and Yuzu have so much more in common as individuals. They have same work ethic, same vision, same spirit. And when Biran says that Yuzu is still a mystery to him I guess what he means is that Yuzu surprises Brian each time with his will to succeed, learn, perform, develop and win. You think you know someonw who you work with every day and you learn their limitations until you see a result that surpasses even your secret expectations. My guess this is the meaning of mystery behind Brian's words. Don't think that when he says this should not be done at this day and time it is wrong or stops Yuzu in his achievements, he can only give a piece of advise based on his experience. But it's the athlete who decides if he wants to risk or he does not.

 

[skatefan22]

Watever happens I hope Yuzuru never leaves Brian. No matter what Brian said during Worlds 2016 Javier success Brian and Yuzu have so much more in common as individuals. They have same work ethic, same vision, same spirit. And when Biran says that Yuzu is still a mystery to him I guess what he means is that Yuzu surprises Brian each time with his will to succeed, learn, perform, develop and win. You think you know someonw who you work with every day and you learn their limitations until you see a result that surpasses even your secret expectations. My guess this is the meaning of mystery behind Brian's words. Don't think that when he says this should not be done at this day and time it is wrong or stops Yuzu in his achievements, he can only give a piece of advise based on his experience. But it's the athlete who decides if he wants to risk or he does not.

About mystery, here is the original quote:
"It's not like we're going out, and we have dinner," Fernández continued. "We have a good relationship, but we have totally different lives."
Fernández has lived on his own since moving to Toronto. Hanyu lives with his mother.
"Even to me, Yuzu is a mystery," Orser said.
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/03/21/167742446

So I think mystery here referring to the fact that Orser doesn't feel that he knows about Yuzu's private life, like his hobbies, where he usually goes in leisure time, his friends, etc.

 

[Meoima]

About mystery, here is the original quote:
"It's not like we're going out, and we have dinner," Fernández continued. "We have a good relationship, but we have totally different lives."
Fernández has lived on his own since moving to Toronto. Hanyu lives with his mother.
"Even to me, Yuzu is a mystery," Orser said.
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/03/21/167742446
So I think mystery here referring to the fact that Orser doesn't feel that he knows about Yuzu's private life, like his hobbies, where he usually goes in leisure time, his friends, etc.

I don't care about whatever my coworkers do in their private time, as long as the work goes smoothly. They're all mysteries to me.
To me, coach - student relationship is strictly business, especially at this level. I don't even think they should be close like some people think.
As long as Brian Orser teaches Yuzuru what he wants, it doesn't matter if Brian favors whoever more. It's his personal opinion. It doesn't matter in work.
I just don't find it comfortable after WC and some of the remarks that Brian has said because to me they're not professional remarks. But if Yuzuru decides to accept it, then I am fine.
I hope Yuzuru will do 4Lo and eventually 4 quad Lp (if that's what he wants) and no one will stop him because they think it's not safe. Even if there's mistakes, so what, his fate is in his hand. It's better than staying safe and wait for the judges to not giving everyone else maximum scores they can give. Judges will find a way to give some weak jump +3 all the way anyway (look at the ladies...).

 

[Lambari]

Maybe it would be even more productive to train in Toronto during more weeks, especially after I saw Tracy Wilson mention the importance of a 5 week plan going to Worlds. Yuzuru seems to have tendencies to overtrain sometimes leading to foot injuries, but this is just a suggestion. He must have his reasons to stay in Japan and if it's working until now that's fine. Orser of course spends more time with Javier since he's training in Toronto full time it's just natural that they would develop a closer relationship in work than a long distance coach-student relationship that happens right now between Orser and Hanyu, even if it should be a strictly "work relationship", we're all just human. I don't see anything unprofessional about Orser's remarks after Worlds. It's a fact that Yuzuru seldom mention anything about his private life.
There's also a difference between staying safe and having a more consistent and reasonable plan, and it's not like Yuzuru will change his character anyway, he will continue to upgrade the layout as always, apparently he doesn't do it only for points or wins as some may think, I remember the outcry for his old "planned" 4S fall, people reacted as if he was doing on purpose just for points and then he worked and worked until his new found 4S consistency. Same for the 4Lo and then he had to explain in an interview that he's not doing it for the sole purpose of being the first to do it and that he has no big interest in that idea. Of course he does it because he has a competitive nature but he's doing it since the juniors, it's just in him. He's just ambitious and quite optimistic with his technical. He's very much aware of himself and in charge of his career plans, in my opinion there's no need for too much worry or speculation, Yuzuru is a subject of questionable or inconsistent judging sometimes as much as any other skater. I would just wait to see how things will develop.

 

[Rissa]

(but please no David Wilson choreo next year, please no )

He could have David Wilson choreo the upcoming season, we could see how it'd work out, and if it wasn't a great success, Yuzu could go back to Shae Lynn Bourne the Olympic season. Better David now than later!

 

[Poice]

I don't think that choreographer is such a decisive matter for Yuzuru. He's not a child, he knows what music he likes, which accents goes well with his timing on jumps. He's well aware of his limitations and perspective of judges. I'm pretty sure that whoever is his choreographer we'll see masterpieces again

 

[Hanmgse]

I don't think that choreographer is such a decisive matter for Yuzuru. He's not a child, he knows what music he likes, which accents goes well with his timing on jumps. He's well aware of his limitations and perspective of judges. I'm pretty sure that whoever is his choreographer we'll see masterpieces again

I like your optimism

 

[hamaguri]

Oh but I don't trust Brian's and David's "Olympic" music choice anymore not after Romeo and Juliet at Sochi But I do hope they prove me wrong for Yuzuru's sake...
I know Yuzuru suggest Phantom of the opera first and David rejected before Sochi... and thats why Yuzuru then ask to do R&J but Yuzuru kind of R&J and David kind of R&J is different and it shows...The classic one just don't fit Yuzuru but he has to settle with that one because he couldn't possibly repeat the 2012 one.
I really hope their music choice for Yuzuru can prove how wrong I am.

& :agree:

edit: a better quality for 2010 WJC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6bTUsWZ8PA

Oh, thanks. I love this video. Beautiful performance... His reaction after the performance… Pure joy and surprise at KC with Nanami… All of them are memorable moments and some has gone…

 

[alia jackson]

Look at his lines and that deep edge :luv17:

 

[Hanmgse]

Look at his lines and that deep edge :luv17:

majestic

 

[hamaguri]

Has it been already posted?

Boston Worlds
Insideskating by Florentina Tone
http://www.insideskating.net/2016/0...nd-the-little-but-relevant-stories-among-them

"Let’s start with that: close your eyes for a couple of seconds – and think about the biggest moments of this year’s edition of the Worlds. What do you see? I see (and almost hear) Yuzuru Hanyu’s roar before the step sequence in his Chopin short program, and then again, I hear him yelling once the routine has ended, relieved, exhaling pressure – "

 

[ranran]

But it was Yuzuru who insisted on having R&J for the Olympics. David said he didn't want to do it because he has done some many R&J and then Yuzu wrote him a beautiful letter where he explained his passion towards the program so David gave up. You can't blaim David.

Not really blame David but more like don't trust his judgement of "Olympic" song choice because it seems to limit perspective when they are thinking like that. He could have agreed with Phantom of the Opera when Yuzu first rejected it, why did he reject it? is it because of warhorse?.... because Yuzuru seems to be the type that need a Character to potray at that time to express his skating but David rejected that so it sort of cornered Yuzu into choosing R&J because thats the other character that he can see himself potraying and hence his beautiful letter because if that was rejected as well.... oh well its in the past

But considering Yuzuru's development as a skater now and how mature his skating has gotten it should be less worrying, I hope IF they decided to go with David as the choreographer then it will be a good choice of music that Yuzuru feel comfortable with and can relate to rather than choosing it because it is "Olympic" friendly music.

I love David but I just think his style of choreography isn't suited with Yuzuru. But who knows~ we might be surprise. I hope its a good kind of surprise.

 

[ranran]

Look at his lines and that deep edge :luv17:

It certainly amazing to see how far he has improved.
I was watching all his skating since he was 6 years old until now and gosh the feeling of watching the development of his skating is just wonderful. That I felt no longer care about his placement and just thankful to be able be a fan in time to appreciate his beautiful skating.