Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

[danni]

A nice fan video, thanks to Annalyn Molina! :luv17:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNjSG_s-LjE
I hope you like it !

 

[Katie J]

Just my opinion but I think it will depend on his health. Yuzuru with just a 4T and 4S got higher points that Shoma with a 4F who also had a level 4 step sequence (Yuzuru never went beyond level 3 except at Autumn Classic and NHK). So he doesn't need it. But he'll be fired up to put a 4Lo and 4S in his SP. It will come down to how well he has recovered. If he's healthy enough - expect to see new quads from Yuzuru in the SP and FS. Especially the FS.

4 F of Uno : Its badly prerotated, sometimes half rotation like this one from 16.4., in Spokane still more prerotated, and it didnt look as a 4 rotation jump in Spokane. I see that the judges honour these kind of jumps even in fun events like this team challenge, I hope.....I pray.... that in real events there will be a big deduction in GOE for Uno. Hanyu doesn' t cheat on the entry on his 4 rotation jumps, and Jin with his 4 L doesn' t cheat either !
I can' t explain why judges on prerotation are so extremely tolerant. Has one of you an explanation ?

 

[chameleon]

All quads are prerotated, some amount is necessary to perform it, same with triples. Some prerotate less than others but everyone does it. As long as it's less than 180 degrees it's fine according to the rules. Shoma's 4F looked fine to me.

Anyway, I expect this will fire Yuzuru up, but I hope he takes care of himself. I expect to see 4Lo at the very least, if not 4L too, but hopefully he will be fully recovered first.

 

[Hanmgse]

Until now I hadn't considered the possibility of 4L in the short too since in the free is a given but I think now it's very possible.

 

[mcq]

All quads are prerotated, some amount is necessary to perform it, same with triples. Some prerotate less than others but everyone does it. As long as it's less than 180 degrees it's fine according to the rules. Shoma's 4F looked fine to me.

Anyway, I expect this will fire Yuzuru up, but I hope he takes care of himself. I expect to see 4Lo at the very least, if not 4L too, but hopefully he will be fully recovered first.

But yuzuru has yet to properly land the 4Lz right? I think in one of his recent interview he mentioned he only landed 4Lz once and it was a fluke according to him. I doubt we will see any 4Lz anytime soon for him, though looking at his 4Lz attempt there seems to be no rotation issue? But yeah I do think at this point 4Lo is something he will definitely do. Although i doubt he would include it in the SP early in the season and will just put it at his 1st jump in the LP. Maybe he will probably just shift the combo in his SP after the 2nd half for more points?

 

[Pika]

Has one of you an explanation ?

Because it's not THAT pre-rotated. It is, but as all quads are, just as chameleon said. There was a quarter of prerotation.
Yuzuru doesn't cheat on easier quads, but take a look at his 4Lo and tell me there's no pre-rotation. There is, because needed, but not more than a quarter. I would be curious to see how Yuzuru would do with a quad flip.

 

[ysy94]

Because it's not THAT pre-rotated. It is, but as all quads are, just as chameleon said. There was a quarter of prerotation.
Yuzuru doesn't cheat on easier quads, but take a look at his 4Lo and tell me there's no pre-rotation. There is, because needed, but not more than a quarter. I would be curious to see how Yuzuru would do with a quad flip.

Yuzu 4lo is Pre rotated 90 degree in FaOI with blue shirt. His 4s some times up to 165 degree pre rotated. But remember edge jump is pre rotate because of momentum. While toe jump expect the blade take off ice when the other blade kick the ice. Its the difference. And Yuzu 3lz 3f not pre rotate at all.

Now compare to Shoma, pre rotate 270 degree. His blade havent take off at this moment.

http://i.imgur.com/wkBO432.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0If35Hm.png

His pre rotate 270 is from 3f3t, no one can change technique in just few month lol

The vid quality is too low of frame, I'm not sure about his landing.


As you said, quad is allowed pre rotate, but 270 degree pre rotate is another story.

PS: my eyes is not good, so I check by program, slow it down check frame by frame. Technology is there . If the vid can get 60fps, then his landing will be clear.

 

[Pika]

Yuzu 4lo is Pre rotated 90 degree in FaOI with blue shirt. His 4s some times up to 165 degree pre rotated. But remember edge jump is pre rotate because of momentum. While toe jump expect the blade take off ice when the other blade kick the ice. Its the difference. And Yuzu 3lz 3f not pre rotate at all.

Now compare to Shoma, pre rotate 270 degree. His blade havent take off at this moment.

http://i.imgur.com/wkBO432.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0If35Hm.png

His pre rotate 270 is from 3f3t, no one can change technique in just few month lol

The vid quality is too low of frame, I'm not sure about his landing.


As you said, quad is allowed pre rotate, but 270 degree pre rotate is another story.

PS: my eyes is not good, so I check by program, slow it down check frame by frame. Technology is there . If the vid can get 60fps, then his landing will be clear.

Hm in fact it's 180° max, I was a bit generous with the quarter, but I don't know how you see 270.
But then I agree with chameleon.
And in fact the take off of a toe jump is not when the toe pick hits the ice. There's a delay, the ground leg moving closer to the toe pick, and then the take-off, resulting in an almost automatic pre-rotation due to speed and edge.

I will stop hi-jacking the thread here. My apologizes

 

[ysy94]

Hm in fact it's 180° max, I was a bit generous with the quarter, but I don't know how you see 270.
But then I agree with chameleon.
And in fact the take off of a toe jump is not when the toe pick hits the ice. There's a delay, the ground leg moving closer to the toe pick, and then the take-off, resulting in an almost automatic pre-rotation due to speed and edge.

I will stop hi-jacking the thread here. My apologizes

This pic is clear 270, he havent take off at that time, you can slow down the vid frame by frame and you will see. Im not disagree with pre rotate in quad, but how much is acceptable (pretty sure 270 is not) is the real the question

 

[Meoima]

Because it's not THAT pre-rotated. It is, but as all quads are, just as chameleon said. There was a quarter of prerotation.
Yuzuru doesn't cheat on easier quads, but take a look at his 4Lo and tell me there's no pre-rotation. There is, because needed, but not more than a quarter. I would be curious to see how Yuzuru would do with a quad flip.

Yuzuru's 4Lo is around the least pre-rotated I have ever seen if we compared it to other guys. Here are the screenshots.

When the blade hasn't left the ice https://goo.gl/tkFXYI
When the blade completely leaves the ice https://goo.gl/A6v9VX

Another take off:

When the blade hasn't left the ice https://goo.gl/5ZMunw
When the blade completely leaves the ice https://goo.gl/ORc4FQ

Video: https://youtu.be/x_Y2L6E6DDI

His 4Loop is a true beauty. :luv17: You can see he completely leaves the ice by the time some skaters are still pivoting on the ice. And this is an edge jump.

As for his other jumps like Lutz and Flip, I am sure he almost has no pre-rotation at all. I know this because there was one time I made videos of his jumps with my friend and we slowed down his take off and landing at max. I was surprised that his lutz and flip have no pre-rotation compared to other skaters. Blade of Passion said the same about his lutz, and that this is why Yuzuru had issue with his lutz from time to time because he does much more work for this jump even though he doesn't need to.

Sometimes I still wondered why Brian Orser doesn't tell Yuzuru to "pre-rotate" a bit more so it will be easier to him. But then when I look at Javi's 3lz take off for years... (major face-palm insert) I guess maybe it's their habits and they feel better that way? But anyways, it's not like Yuzuru gets no benefits from having the least and sometime no prerotation, because jumps with least prerotation always look more impressive and bigger and thus should get better GOE.

However, as I see it now, judges have the tendency to give you +2 and +3 all the way regardless of quality so actually having even the biggest pre-rotation is not a problem because they will ratify it anyways.

 

[seimei]

As alia said, I recommend the edge board to discuss the matters.. but these days there is a tendency that judge don't be strict on pre rotation and goe. So we'll know how the quad will be judged in official competition next season. And we haven't seen other's 4F, so we don't know ideal gif of 4F. I think Uno is good at acquisition and very talented,competitive like yuzu, but very different style. As yuzu said the top men's level is so high, and various personality of each skaters. It's unpredictable to imagine from now to 2018 like from 2010 to 2014. Many man will challenge other quads and somebody will raise, somebody will fall... cruel but reality. Yuzu has a own dream that not only gold medals but also challenging difficult stuffs,records. Sometimes, it doesn't happen at same times sadly. But I believe his pride for challenging mind. He has said many times.. "this is not my limit, I can still progress." Personally I think anything can happen in men's figure. So yuzu's mind that everyone do challenge for win is very good value on this sports. At least, there'll be no regret not to challenge. (but I will feel a bit sad when his world record will be broken, if not himself) In any way, I already miss him..so much and I hope he rests well now. I read a sentence on sportiva magazine. His injury at January was very serious to consider withdraw to world.. His health after National is always not good. May be he has worked off too much to half season.. And next season's schedule is also crazy.. <nhk to GPF to national> they are all biweekly.. so I want he won't go nhk at least like 14 season, but very unlikely.

 

[Meoima]

As alia said, I recommend the edge board to discuss the matters.. but these days there is a tendency that judge don't be strict on pre rotation and goe.

I feel a bit sad that jumps with so much pre-rotation are treated the same as jumps with much less pre-rotation but who am I to judge that. It's the same when I see that some tiny jumps these days are getting the same GOE like Yuna's huge jumps in the old day. But oh well... We have to accept that no matter what.

In any way, I already miss him..so much and I hope he rests well now. I read a sentence on sportiva magazine. His injury at January was very serious to consider withdraw to world. His health after National is always not good. May be he has worked off too much to half season.. And next season's schedule is also crazy.. <nhk to GPF to national> they are all biweekly.. so I want he won't go nhk at least like 14 season, but very unlikely.

Do you have the link of the magazine on Amazon? I wonder about his leg, does he need surgery?
At this rate I hope he will skip GPs. Or maybe he only goes to NHK and National, then 4CC and WC. I think this way it might be better for his health.

 

[daisy616]

Do you have the link of the magazine on Amazon? I wonder about his leg, does he need surgery?
At this rate I hope he will skip GPs. Or maybe he only goes to NHK and National, then 4CC and WC. I think this way it might be better for his health.

I'm not seimei, but the magazine is Sportiva and the Amazon link is http://www.amazon.co.jp/Sportiva-%E7%BE%BD%E7%94%9F%E7%B5%90%E5%BC%A6-%E7%95%B0%E6%AC%A1%E5%85%83%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%83%B3To-Next-%E9%9B%86%E8%8B%B1%E7%A4%BE%E3%83%A0%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF/dp/4081022143/ref=pd_sim_14_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51nAPzJvzNL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR125%2C160_&refRID=0V9G8KGMAHBBVQQNCHV2
I read that article and I was also shocked to know the injury was that bad. According to Ms.Shirota, his left leg was swollen very badly
after Yuzu performed the short program.

The radio interview of Noguchi Yoshie who is an author of King's Method:http://www.tfm.co.jp/beat/index.php?itemid=108726&catid=2263

The interesting parts for me is something like:
"Most Japanese often say, Let's go out and eat something tasty, but Hanyu-senshu is not interested in food at all."
"He practices、concentrating a lot, and when the practice is done, he just plays games or　ぼーっとしてる（does nothing? daydreaming? I don't know how to translate）escaping reality,
so it's difficult to talk to him anyway(laugh)"

 

[seimei]

I feel a bit sad that jumps with so much pre-rotation are treated the same as jumps with much less pre-rotation but who am I to judge that. It's the same when I see that some tiny jumps these days are getting the same GOE like Yuna's huge jumps in the old day. But oh well... We have to accept that no matter what.

Do you have the link of the magazine on Amazon? I wonder about his leg, does he need surgery?
At this rate I hope he will skip GPs. Or maybe he only goes to NHK and National, then 4CC and WC. I think this way it might be better for his health.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/Sportiva-%E7%BE%BD%E7%94%9F%E7%B5%90%E5%BC%A6-%E7%95%B0%E6%AC%A1%E5%85%83%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%83%B3To-Next-%E9%9B%86%E8%8B%B1%E7%A4%BE%E3%83%A0%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF/dp/4081022143/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461414640&sr=8-1&keywords=sportiva I saw the information using google translate for reading review of readers. I have to correct word not withdraw but unclearity to compete. It seems that he had to each three days rest after one day practice at Toronto. And his legs were swollen too. Of course, he didn't use injury for excuse himself, it's inevitable to injury for top male skaters. And sometimes players with injury do a skate of their life ( yuzu 2012 world javi 2016world etc).. I think these case are some special moment for skaters not to be described as reasonable words.
But personally I think his schedule from nhk to national was not ideal.. but it's difficult to change schedule, circumstance. I don't think he will not skip GPs, he has always developed and adapted to his programs through first half season. And pcs is also influenced by participation many competition. I just have a hope he'll skip national and participate 4cc but skipping national is very unlikely to him and JSF.
sigh
AND about judge tendency of your feeling, I agree bit with your opinion, but on the other hand, understand this situation a bit. It's difficult not to give goe at that well landed, good landing flow jumps, consistency regardless of lacking height, rotation for judge. and casual viewer's perspective. Figure skating is subjective sports and there are always somebody to agree or disagree. SO I think that my personal judgement is more important to my self than judge's judgement. And also fans are not always objective to all ways.

edit. daisy616 beat me haha

 

[daisy616]

edit. daisy616 beat me haha

Just a few minutes difference:agree:
And I'm surprised your understanding is very precise from Google translation of reading reviews!

Ms. Shirota also says "Perhaps we should have made him skip the practice during the competition (for a rest)."

 

[Meoima]

Just a few minutes difference:agree:
And I'm surprised your understanding is very precise from Google translation of reading reviews!
Ms. Shirota also says "Perhaps we should have made him skip the practice during the competition (for a rest)."

My friend has this magazine but both of us don't have Japanese understanding. Do you mind telling me which page has the interview about his injury?
Thank you a lot.

 

[daisy616]

My friend has this magazine but both of us don't have Japanese understanding. Do you mind telling me which page has the interview about his injury?
Thank you a lot.

No problem.
p.12 and 13. "Special Essay" by Utsunomiya Naoko.
It's a a column, and the author Utsunomiya Naoko quotes many words of Ms.Shirota.

 

[SuzyQ]

The interesting parts for me is something like:
"Most Japanese often say, Let's go out and eat something tasty, but Hanyu-senshu is not interested in food at all."
"He practices、concentrating a lot, and when the practice is done, he just plays games or　ぼーっとしてる（does nothing? daydreaming? I don't know how to translate）escaping reality,
so it's difficult to talk to him anyway(laugh)"

Non-chan translated it "zone out" for ぼーっとしてる bohtto shiteru in "Johnetsu Tairiku", which expression was very new to me. My dictionary also says "space out" for that, and this was also new to me. Maybe I need more efforts in studying English :dumb:

Anyway it's good to know Yuzuru can have time to escape from reality listening to music or playing games :agree2:

 

[Hanmgse]

I'm not seimei, but the magazine is Sportiva and the Amazon link is http://www.amazon.co.jp/Sportiva-%E7%BE%BD%E7%94%9F%E7%B5%90%E5%BC%A6-%E7%95%B0%E6%AC%A1%E5%85%83%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA%E3%83%B3To-Next-%E9%9B%86%E8%8B%B1%E7%A4%BE%E3%83%A0%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF/dp/4081022143/ref=pd_sim_14_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51nAPzJvzNL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR125%2C160_&refRID=0V9G8KGMAHBBVQQNCHV2
I read that article and I was also shocked to know the injury was that bad. According to Ms.Shirota, his left leg was swollen very badly
after Yuzu performed the short program.

The radio interview of Noguchi Yoshie who is an author of King's Method:http://www.tfm.co.jp/beat/index.php?itemid=108726&catid=2263

The interesting parts for me is something like:
"Most Japanese often say, Let's go out and eat something tasty, but Hanyu-senshu is not interested in food at all."
"He practices、concentrating a lot, and when the practice is done, he just plays games or　ぼーっとしてる（does nothing? daydreaming? I don't know how to translate）escaping reality,
so it's difficult to talk to him anyway(laugh)"

I really hope we can have more information soon :hopelessness:

 

[Sydney Rose]

"He practices、concentrating a lot, and when the practice is done, he just plays games or　ぼーっとしてる（does nothing? daydreaming? I don't know how to translate）escaping reality,
so it's difficult to talk to him anyway(laugh)"

Yuzuru is an introvert and so he needs to get away from people periodically to "recharge" himself. We introverts totally get this.

And speaking as a fellow introvert, I've wondered if this is one reason he spends so much time training in Japan, where he gets to have an ice rink completely to himself.