Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

[Spiral]

Fernandez's LP at WC is scored higher than Yuzuru's NHK LP already. I have no faith in any of the judges being fair. All the judges are selected by their federations. No federations will choose their most honest and fair judge to high level competitions to help foreign skaters win. There is no punishment for cheating either. There is no incentive or reward for any of the judges to be honest and fair. With the way the judging system is set up and the way judges are selected, we are guaranteed to see cheating and biased judging.

I don’t generally compare scores from different competitions, because there seems to be a tendency for scores to get inflated as the season progresses. Hanyu got more than 3 points more for his LP at GPF than for his LP at NHK, despite the same content skated cleanly at both events. I think if he’d delivered a similar LP skate in Boston, he’d have gotten even more there.

Federations may select judges who’ll promote their own athletes, but since there can be no more than one compatriot judge per skater, I don’t think Hanyu would have lost to anybody if he had skated cleanly.

Well, he needs to have the highest base value, who knows what will happen in the oly season honestly. Like if we look back at midway oly cycle (2011/2012) bet majority of people did not seriously think Hanyu would get the OGM and beat Chan, 2 seasons is a long time for someone to improve. Both Boyang and Shoma have higher BV than him, and Chan also plans to up his BV by adding 4S. Boyang's PCS might be 30 pts below Yuzu, but Shoma already scored 42 (SP) and 89 (FP) in his debut senior year, and by oly season we will never know. Yuzuru doesn't have as much lead as some people think, Javi is virtually scored the same way when clean. If Yuzu wants to up his tech content, this season is his only chance, if he doesn't make it work, he could always revert back to what he is comfortable with nearing the Olympics.

Yeah but everyone got +3 GOEs now. Even without that scenario, 2 years are a long time. I doubt the young ones like Shoma and Boyang, also Chan or even Fernandez just want to stay stagnant and too comfortable or not improving. Besides looking at his character I highly doubt he won't increase his tech content, push himself and improving. He already mentioned in his post-WC interview that he will anyway. Hanyu is unbeatable when clean, now. It may not be the same case in Olympic season. Getting too comfortable is never a good thing when you are an athlete or competitor.

World may not be a good choice considering that Hanyu, Chan and Uno were a disaster there. Chan and Javi are capable of getting +3s, even the current Shoma has already getting over +2 GOEs on his elements, now. Who knows where these guys will be 2 yrs from now. Hanyu is an athlete who add a quad in his SP, mid-season, when he doesn't need to. I highly doubt he will stick with the same layout for the next season and oly season. Also, did people forget what happen to Chan? He gets a bit too comfortable due to his PCS cushion, now he is in a position where he has to grind himself in doing 3 quad in the long and 2 in the Short.

Well, he already increased the difficulty of his tech content between GPF and Worlds, putting two triple axels into his LP instead of one triple axel and a triple flip, and opting for two quad salchows and a quad toe-loop instead of two toe-loops and one salchow. What else can he do? Do four quads in the LP? Learn a more difficult quad jump? I think it’s very risky if he’s plagued with injuries already. He may end up missing the Olympics altogether due to injury or unable to do the content he does now. Mounting injuries can take an unpredictable toll, and it can happen quite suddenly.

He may very well wish to up his tech content this season, but he’ll have to wait till he recuperates before he can train properly, then he’ll need time to get back into competitive shape, and then it’ll be time for competitions. It’s one thing to put a quad salchow into his SP or a second triple axel into his LP mid-season when he already knew how to do these jumps, and a very different thing to learn a new quad mid-season.

I don’t think Boyang’s component scores will come to rival Hanyu’s in the coming season, and I don’t see how Shoma can have a higher base value than Hanyu already – he does one quad toe-loop in SP and two in LP. It looks like it’s Shoma who has to catch up with Hanyu, and Chan even more so. Fernandez does have the same tech content, but he was also injured recently, and I don’t think he’d risk it all to win another Worlds or Olympics. He made it clear in interviews before Worlds that he didn’t expect to win again, and he said afterwards that his goal is to medal at Olympics. I think Hanyu can afford to wait another season and let himself heal properly, especially since otherwise his future seems unpredictable. But that’s just my opinion, of course. I’m not a doctor, I’m just hoping Yuzuru is listening to his. He’s very young, and it’ll be a great pity if his sport career were suddenly over. Better even a second place in Korea – at least he’ll leave a legacy – than a career cut short at such a young age.

 

[mcq]

Well, he already increased the difficulty of his tech content between GPF and Worlds, putting two triple axels into his LP instead of one triple axel and a triple flip, and opting for two quad salchows and a quad toe-loop instead of two toe-loops and one salchow. What else can he do? Do four quads in the LP? Learn a more difficult quad jump? I think it’s very risky if he’s plagued with injuries already. He may end up missing the Olympics altogether due to injury or unable to do the content he does now. Mounting injuries can take an unpredictable toll, and it can happen quite suddenly.

I don’t think Boyang’s component scores will come to rival Hanyu’s in the coming season, and I don’t see how Shoma can have a higher base value than Hanyu already – he does one quad toe-loop in SP and two in LP. It looks like it’s Shoma who has to catch up with Hanyu, and Chan even more so. Fernandez does have the same tech content, but he was also injured recently, and I don’t think he’d risk it all to win another Worlds or Olympics. He made it clear in interviews before Worlds that he didn’t expect to win again, and he said afterwards that his goal is to medal at Olympics. I think Hanyu can afford to wait another season and let himself heal properly, especially since otherwise his future seems unpredictable. But that’s just my opinion, of course. I’m not a doctor, I’m just hoping Yuzuru is listening to his. He’s very young, and it’ll be a great pity if his sport career were suddenly over. Better even a second place in Korea – at least he’ll leave a legacy – than a career cut short at such a young age.

I think he knows he needs to heal completely, which is why he is going under the radar and skipping all ice shows. But he himself knows what is at stake and the direction of the sport is progressing. He mentioned in his post-WC interview and i quote : "First, I’d like to increase the difficulty of my programs. I WILL increase the difficulty of my programs. Half-way through the season, I was able to do most of the things I set out to achieve. This is why I have to aim higher. It made me want to become stronger than ever." (from yuzusorbet trans,skipped some part).
I assumed it is out of the question that he will increase his tech content? Plus, he had trouble with his toepick jump due to his injury, doing an edge jump like a 4Lo probably would be an option for him to lessen the stress on his injured toepick foot. Brian also said in his interview about a plan to add 4Lo and move one quad to the 2nd half. It's not like yuzuru never landed 4Lo before, he has already landed it multiple times in practice and shows, he just needs to get used to it. (though 4Lo means... poor hip)
I doubt he will do 4 quads, especially after his injury, but reading his interview, he himself feel that he needs to keep progressing otherwise he won't feel challenged.

Also there are some inaccurate things that you mentioned:
-Yuzuru did not add his 2nd triple axel in between GPF and world. That is javier. Yuzuru literally always have 2 planned 3As in the LP in almost his entire senior career. The only change he made in this season planned LP was the 4S, and that was because he already had problem with his midfoot for the toepick jump, so he did less 4T.
-Shoma had already have higher BV than yuzuru since TCC. He did a 4F+4T in SP and 4F+2 4T in the LP. Also, looking at his new layout in his FaOI ice shows, it does seem like he is setting for a 4-quad LP. His problem is not the quad though, he has quite bad jump landings and lack of transitions, keeping him from getting max GOEs and high TR component score. But you know what will happen when he fix this, he will also be rewarded. Though this layout seems highly injury-prone.

 

[gsyzf]

I'm not sure why he withdrew from DOI. There are lots of possibilities.
Anyway, he's always very nervous/uncomfortable/shy to be back in competitions when he's away for a few months. 15wc and 16wc are good examples. If he'll be away from the public eye for 6 months, I bet he'll be super nervous in his first GP next season.

He is always more nervous after coming back to competition after a break. It's the same every season. That happens to everyone too, to different extent. I don't think it will be any different next season. That's why it's not good to compete at WC after such a long break after national.

 

[gsyzf]

Ah, same premises? So ice rink test- then yeah, Yuzu might wanna go.:dev2: Poor foot.

I think he is more likely to get more severe injuries by having a long break between national and WC. 4CC doesn't have much prestige. Almost all top skaters skip 4CC. So GPF is the 2nd most important competition in a non-Olympic season. If at the beginning of the season, he knew he will have 5 competitions in the 1st half of the season and only 1 competition after national with a 3 months break, he will end up pushing himself a lot more before national because he knows he can rest and recover after national. If he plans to attend 4CC right from the beginning of the season, he won't push himself as hard in the 1st half of the season because he knows he has a long season ahead. He will still get injuries, but his injuries would not be as bad as the injuries he gets when he doesn't plan to go to 4CC right from the beginning of the season. His injuries in 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 seasons are more severe than his injuries in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 season when he did 4CC and Olympics between national and WC.

 

[Interspectator]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBkx2G53ec Watched this EX today from 2013 TEB to make myself happy.

 

[ranran]

Hi guys!

I'm so busy to keep up with the thread but I just wanted to share that I had a weird vivid dream where Yuzuru skip the whole GP Series and attend Japanese Nationals, won there and got send to 4CC and World then won at both events qualifying 3 spots for Japan. The funny thing is before all the events, I was even at the cricket club and Brian told me (which is weird I mean who am I for Brian to tell such thing ) that due to Yuzu's injury they decided to try a new tactic to make sure Yuzu peak at World and since he got 4 GPF title so its ok to skip and also it give a chance for Yuzuru to heal fully. I'm like no! why! make him go to GP Series!

So thats roughly that, although there are some other bits that is weird and puzzling (like I'm missing my skate uniform and I cried at cricket club XD) but this dream is just funny in a way its so feel so close to reality as in it is something that could happen but~ I don't want Yuzuru to skip GP Series!

Kinda embarrassing to share my dreams publicly : but the excitement of Yuzuru winning world in my dream feels real lol

 

[sweetwater]

Tono Risoku De Gozaru international Premiere in Toronto

The cutest K in the world photo by Mikhail Sharov

 

[xibsuarz]

The cutest K in the world photo by Mikhail Sharov

One of the reasons why Yuzu skipping the GP series would make me sad is how happy he always looks at the GPF. He was smiling so much the last few years at that competition and seeing him so cheerful is priceless. Although well, if it's best to avoid another injury or peak for Worlds it would be understandable.

 

[gsyzf]

One of the reasons why Yuzu skipping the GP series would make me sad is how happy he always looks at the GPF. He was smiling so much the last few years at that competition and seeing him so cheerful is priceless. Although well, if it's best to avoid another injury or peak for Worlds it would be understandable.

I don't think it's a good idea to skip the GPs. He won't have enough competition to practice his layouts in competition. We can't expect him to execute a new harder layout perfectly by skipping competitions. It took him 15-20 competitions to stabilize his 4S. Skipping GPs is only a good idea if he doesn't plan to up his tech and only tries to stick to the safe layout until the Olympics (Doing a safe layout at the Olympics means he is pretty much guaranteed to lose unless everybody bombs. Judges will not give the gold to a defending champ who doesn't have harder layout than his rivals. All of his rivals are upping their tech. He can't stay stagnant.) or if his summer schedule is too over-loaded like in the summer after the Olympics.

 

[alia jackson]

I remember there was a TV crip where Noto-san talked about that photo. In my memory, to see that face of yuzu, he was certainly sure that yuzu would keep skating. At that time, yuzu lost his way whether he should continue skating in that situation or not.

Agree with you that photo was really powerful, and Nato-san always take beautiful photos of Yuzu :agree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBkx2G53ec Watched this EX today from 2013 TEB to make myself happy.

Thanks for the link Specs, this is the first time I'm seeing another angle of this wonderful NDP ex. Based on his gorgeous Requeim at Worlds, imagine if he perform this NDP again :luv17:

 

[Sorrento]

Hi guys!

I'm so busy to keep up with the thread but I just wanted to share that I had a weird vivid dream where Yuzuru skip the whole GP Series and attend Japanese Nationals, won there and got send to 4CC and World then won at both events qualifying 3 spots for Japan. The funny thing is before all the events, I was even at the cricket club and Brian told me (which is weird I mean who am I for Brian to tell such thing ) that due to Yuzu's injury they decided to try a new tactic to make sure Yuzu peak at World and since he got 4 GPF title so its ok to skip and also it give a chance for Yuzuru to heal fully. I'm like no! why! make him go to GP Series!

So thats roughly that, although there are some other bits that is weird and puzzling (like I'm missing my skate uniform and I cried at cricket club XD) but this dream is just funny in a way its so feel so close to reality as in it is something that could happen but~ I don't want Yuzuru to skip GP Series!

Kinda embarrassing to share my dreams publicly : but the excitement of Yuzuru winning world in my dream feels real lol

I loved your dream, please share more if Yuzu related.:2thumbs:

 

[Sorrento]

His injuries in 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 seasons are more severe than his injuries in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 season when he did 4CC and Olympics between national and WC.

You can't possibly compare the injuries of a gifted youngster with a different content and BV with what he had went through during the latter seasons, eh? Being Olympic Champion is a great honor and a huge responsability magnified with a strong belief that if you were chosen to win Olympic gold then you have to be a true leader of figure skating men. He did not see any limitations before, he had to learn those during the last season and at the end of it.

You know what am I curious about: is the person who treats him now the one who refused to medically support him last season, the one who told him what the risks are if he neglects his pain and continues to struggle through the entire season with a greater BV put on that foot. If yes- wouldn't it be ironic?

 

[JustRozy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBkx2G53ec Watched this EX today from 2013 TEB to make myself happy.

When in doubt or despair, watch Yuzu. As well as when joyful! Thank you!

 

[Hanmgse]

Hi guys!

I'm so busy to keep up with the thread but I just wanted to share that I had a weird vivid dream where Yuzuru skip the whole GP Series and attend Japanese Nationals, won there and got send to 4CC and World then won at both events qualifying 3 spots for Japan. The funny thing is before all the events, I was even at the cricket club and Brian told me (which is weird I mean who am I for Brian to tell such thing ) that due to Yuzu's injury they decided to try a new tactic to make sure Yuzu peak at World and since he got 4 GPF title so its ok to skip and also it give a chance for Yuzuru to heal fully. I'm like no! why! make him go to GP Series!

So thats roughly that, although there are some other bits that is weird and puzzling (like I'm missing my skate uniform and I cried at cricket club XD) but this dream is just funny in a way its so feel so close to reality as in it is something that could happen but~ I don't want Yuzuru to skip GP Series!

Kinda embarrassing to share my dreams publicly : but the excitement of Yuzuru winning world in my dream feels real lol

 

[alia jackson]

When in doubt or despair, watch Yuzu. As well as when joyful! Thank you!

Fans playing Yuzu's picture card game: the cards, game start, someone is winning :2thumbs:

Kottymarusan cutest fanart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5

 

[hamaguri]

Fans playing Yuzu's picture card game: the cards, game start, someone is winning :2thumbs:

Kottymarusan cutest fanart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5

Beautiful spiral, gold medal parade, warmup...what memorable scenes...

BTW, does anyone know the sourse of the photo #4? He had a cap and black outfits.

 

[Nontama0817]

You know what am I curious about: is the person who treats him now the one who refused to medically support him last season, the one who told him what the risks are if he neglects his pain and continues to struggle through the entire season with a greater BV put on that foot. If yes- wouldn't it be ironic?

Could you elaborate on that episode? I don't recall it at all. My memory is not good.

 

[gsyzf]

You can't possibly compare the injuries of a gifted youngster with a different content and BV with what he had went through during the latter seasons, eh? Being Olympic Champion is a great honor and a huge responsability magnified with a strong belief that if you were chosen to win Olympic gold then you have to be a true leader of figure skating men. He did not see any limitations before, he had to learn those during the last season and at the end of it.

He tried easier tech when he was younger and physically weaker. He tried harder tech when he is older. But he also physically grew stronger. So the amount of risk he takes is proportional to his physical strength.

You know what am I curious about: is the person who treats him now the one who refused to medically support him last season, the one who told him what the risks are if he neglects his pain and continues to struggle through the entire season with a greater BV put on that foot. If yes- wouldn't it be ironic?

Every athlete knows he has to take risk to win medals. No pain, no gain. He already knew before he practiced those layouts, that's the outcome he would get when he attempts those difficult tech and trains intensively. Unless he regrets the medals he received and have regrets about his WR performances, I don't think there is anything ironic about it.

It's normal he feels pain. That's the price he pays if he wants to win. If a person wins major championship by taking little risk, he will pay later (in some other ways). There is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Sorrento]

Every athlete knows he has to take risk to win medals. No pain, no gain. He already knew before he practiced those layouts, that's the outcome he would get when he attempts those difficult tech and trains intensively. Unless he regrets the medals he received and have regrets about his WR performances, I don't think there is anything ironic about it.

It's normal he feels pain. That's the price he pays if he wants to win. If a person wins major championship by taking little risk, he will pay later (in some other ways). There is no such thing as a free lunch.

From what you've written it seems like you think I blame Yuzu for the choice he has made. Well, you did not get my point at all. I know he's a warrior. I wonder who actually treats him this time.

 

[gsyzf]

I don’t generally compare scores from different competitions, because there seems to be a tendency for scores to get inflated as the season progresses. Hanyu got more than 3 points more for his LP at GPF than for his LP at NHK, despite the same content skated cleanly at both events. I think if he’d delivered a similar LP skate in Boston, he’d have gotten even more there.

Federations may select judges who’ll promote their own athletes, but since there can be no more than one compatriot judge per skater, I don’t think Hanyu would have lost to anybody if he had skated cleanly.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?59728-ISU-votes-to-abolish-anonymous-judging/page6

Someone found a series academic papers that studied subjectively judged sports. The bias and collusion in judging is statistically significant to change the final placements. The compatriot judge is not just one person. Federations form voting blocs and trade votes. So whoever has more connection and long term partnerships will receive more generous judging.

I tried to think that the abnormal judging is just one outlier at one particular competition. But the judging just got worse and worse towards the end of the season. After this season, I don't believe in the judges any more. The judges simply don't care about fairness. They didn't even try to be fair. They just gave out scores however they like to boost the skaters they are told to favor. Who can be sure that these judges will actually follow the rules/guidelines? They are not rewarded for following the rules and they are not punished for violating the rules. How can Yuzuru leave his fate to these judges' hand and rely on judges' mercy to give the scores he and his rivals deserve?