Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Rissa]

Yuzuru was already aware of what was ahead of him. He is very wise. He sees everything around him. I trust and believe that we will see in 4CC and WC a stronger, stronger and unbeatable Yuzuru. This game is just beginning and our Yuzuru has the weapons and strategies that are milimetrically designed to beat him. It was the first time I've seen Yuzu stay so long in Canada. He is building his path with much dedication and focus on his goals. He is a boy genius and determined to win. I believe he will reap the fruits of your effort in the coming days. I BELIEVE.

Lol.

That sounds like some freaky political or cult speech.


After seeing Nathan I'm super excited and super nervous for the 4CCs. Oddly, I think Yuzuru has better chances of being in top form at Worlds than Nathan. I'm finding Yuzuru's late start this season encouraging.

 

[mcq]

Well, another way for him to max his BV without doing/including new jump is doing a -3lo combo. Like doing 3A3Lo or 3Lz3Lo instead of 3A2T. It will give him 4 points extra BV. BUT with the 4Lo alone I am already crying for his hips so this is unlikely a good idea.

 

[beki]

Has he done loop combos in the past? Any videos? Now I want to see it

 

[Yatagarasu]

Well, another way for him to max his BV without doing/including new jump is doing a -3lo combo. Like doing 3A3Lo or 3Lz3Lo instead of 3A2T. It will give him 4 points extra BV. BUT with the 4Lo alone I am already crying for his hips so this is unlikely a good idea.

I hadn't read your last sentence and my hips were already experiencing painful twitches just from the suggestion :hopelessness: 4S-1Lo-4S? He still has a 4Lz, 4Lo and 4T then, plus 2 3As to do

 

[mcq]

I hadn't read your last sentence and my hips were already experiencing painful twitches just from the suggestion :hopelessness: 4S-1Lo-4S? He still has a 4Lz, 4Lo and 4T then, plus 2 3As to do

Lol nope I meant if 4Lz is unlikely, short term strategy could be to do a 3Lo combo. Like : 4Lo 4S 3F / 4S3T 4T 3A3Lo 3Alo3S 3Lz OR 4Lo 4S 3F / 4S3T 4T 3Lz3Lo 3Alo3S 3A OR 4Lo 4S 3F3Lo / 4S3T 4T 3A 3Alo3S 3Lz. It will give 4 points increase to his current BV (103 ---> 107) without having to do 4Lz or disrupting his layout and program so much. We have seen him training 3Lo combo so this looks more "doable" than including 4Lz in this short term for me. But again, HIPS! his HIPS! :hopelessness:

 

[seimei]

Has he done loop combos in the past? Any videos? Now I want to see it

only 3lo1lo3s in AC15.
I saw 3lz2lo from him at practice. but 3a3lo is possible thing? I haven't seen that from anyone. 3lo combo for men is rare.

 

[liv]

Yes, a 3A/3loop is possible. You will have to look back into the 90's for it: Alexander Abt of Russia. Now there was a man who could gallop around an ice rink and should have done much better internationally.... except for those dang injuries. I think someone else could do it too, but I forget who.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Lol nope I meant if 4Lz is unlikely, short term strategy could be to do a 3Lo combo. Like : 4Lo 4S 3F / 4S3T 4T 3A3Lo 3Alo3S 3Lz OR 4Lo 4S 3F / 4S3T 4T 3Lz3Lo 3Alo3S 3A OR 4Lo 4S 3F3Lo / 4S3T 4T 3A 3Alo3S 3Lz. It will give 4 points increase to his current BV (103 ---> 107) without having to do 4Lz or disrupting his layout and program so much. We have seen him training 3Lo combo so this looks more "doable" than including 4Lz in this short term for me. But again, HIPS! his HIPS! :hopelessness:

Oh short term! I'd rather he loses those 4 points to be honest! Yes we have seen 3A-3T-3Lo, 4T-3T-3Lo and 4S-3T-3Lo, so I am sure without the first jumps he can properly rotate the 3Lo, unlike at that practice, but still, yes hips! So no. At least nobody suggest that to him.

So what is left really? Just Meoima's suggestion of 4Lo-3T?

 

[mcq]

only 3lo1lo3s in AC15.
I saw 3lz2lo from him at practice. but 3a3lo is possible thing? I haven't seen that from anyone. 3lo combo for men is rare.

Not in competition yet. We saw him doing 3A3T3Lo and 4S3T3Lo in practice at GPF. It is not landed well and looks UR but he was just playing around then. 3A3Lo is possible, much more possible than a 4A Anyway, he already got plenty on his plate so if he wants to max his BV without including new quad, 3Lo combo is a great alternate.

Oh short term! I'd rather he loses those 4 points to be honest! Yes we have seen 3A-3T-3Lo, 4T-3T-3Lo and 4S-3T-3Lo, so I am sure without the first jumps he can properly rotate the 3Lo, unlike at that practice, but still, yes hips! So no. At least nobody suggest that to him.

So what is left really? Just Meoima's suggestion of 4Lo-3T?

Doing 2 4Lo looks just as :noshake: for the hips as doing 4Lo + 3-3Lo combo, no? And the BV increase is only ~2 pts. Anywho, Chen's BV for his Nats FS is 106, his max BV if all lvl 4 is 108-ish. Yuzu's current BV is 103.3-ish so it is not like he is far behind in BV. But if he wants to max his BV without including 4Lz he still has several alternate. Which is why I said 4Lz is not necessary for now.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Doing 2 4Lo looks just as :noshake: for the hips as doing 4Lo + 3-3Lo combo, no? And the BV increase is only ~2 pts. Anywho, Chen's BV for his Nats FS is 106, his max BV if all lvl 4 is 108-ish. Yuzu's current BV is 103.3-ish so it is not like he is far behind in BV. But if he wants to max his BV without including 4Lz he still has several alternate. Which is why I said 4Lz is not necessary for now.

You know, that's an interesting question. Is the 4Lo as a first jump a bigger problem than a -3Lo? I am not that good with jump mechanics but would there be added pressure to an already unstable hip position; once a skater lands the first jump in the combination and has to lock in and then twist in place to get the -3Lo? Just guessing but in that case, -3Lo as a combination seems pretty stressful. Though of course, there's technique and Yuzuru has excellent one and probably just how individual bodies are. This really is curious.

But maybe, just maybe, if it is a very temporary thing he could do a -3Lo for the rest of this season? I mean there were certainly skaters who still did them and I wonder if the men have perhaps less of an issue than the ladies due to build.

 

[gladiolusc]

Not that I would know, but sometimes I have the feeling 4A would be a better jump for Hanyu than 4Lz. 3A is easier for him than 3Lz.

The 4A is actually a much bigger risk for him because his 3A is super consistent in addition to being the best. He risks messing up his 3A in training 4A. Otherwise I feel like he'd want to work on it...

 

[mcq]

You know, that's an interesting question. Is the 4Lo as a first jump a bigger problem than a -3Lo? I am not that good with jump mechanics but would there be added pressure to an already unstable hip position; once a skater lands the first jump in the combination and has to lock in and then twist in place to get the -3Lo? Just guessing but in that case, -3Lo as a combination seems pretty stressful. Though of course, there's technique and Yuzuru has excellent one and probably just how individual bodies are. This really is curious.

But maybe, just maybe, if it is a very temporary thing he could do a -3Lo for the rest of this season? I mean there were certainly skaters who still did them and I wonder if the men have perhaps less of an issue than the ladies due to build.

Lol, I don't know but both seems just as bad. Mao is still doing a 3Lo combo from what I know but her rotation is often dinged. This is all just a big IF and I was just stating an alternate about how he can max his BV without having to add 4Lz. Frankly, if he is clean with his current layout, I still think noone would beat him, and his biggest homework is still finishing what is in his current plate, especially making sure that he lands that 4S3T because he can't really afford throwing points away anymore.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Lol, I don't know but both seems just as bad. Mao is still doing a 3Lo combo from what I know but her rotation is often dinged. This is all just a big IF and I was just stating an alternate about how he can max his BV without having to add 4Lz. Frankly, if he is clean with his current layout, I still think noone would beat him, and his biggest homework is still finishing what is in his current plate, especially making sure that he lands that 4S3T because he can't really afford throwing points away anymore.

I almost want to make a new thread in the edge now it's because I keep thinking about all that momentum that a skater has once they land. It seems like it'd exacerbate the issue of the instability in a -3Lo even more than usual but I am not sure. We need Mishin here.
He really should skate clean what he has now, true (nightmares, I have nightmares from the 4S combo), SP too because that's not ideal so far either, never mind the FS. There's no more room for error. But you know, this is Yuzuru and if he wants to up his BV...

 

[mcq]

I almost want to make a new thread in the edge now it's because I keep thinking about all that momentum that a skater has once they land. It seems like it'd exacerbate the issue of the instability in a -3Lo even more than usual but I am not sure. We need Mishin here.
He really should skate clean what he has now, true (nightmares, I have nightmares from the 4S combo), SP too because that's not ideal so far either, never mind the FS. There's no more room for error. But you know, this is Yuzuru and if he wants to up his BV...

I think there was already a thread about that. I am sure I commented on that before.

Yeah. I wonder how he will respond to all these. He added a 4S on his SP back then because he lost to Patrick in SC, when people least expect it. But when people expect him to do 4Lo at 2016 worlds, he didn't do it. I think he is still someone who move at his own pace and ideals, regardless of how crazy and stubborn some might think he is.

About the 4S combo, he has been having problems landing quad combo in the second half even when it was still a 4T3T. He fell at AC, Japan Nats and 2016 worlds (4S3T), hands down at SC, though he landed it clean at NHK and GPF. But even when he landed it, the quality was just meh. I initially thought it was because of his lisfranc injury, but even when he changed it to 4S combo he has yet to land it. I can't help but beginning to think if it is just a jump that was not meant to be. There still has to be a point when and where he should decide if it was just not going to happen, like when he dropped the 3lz3t in his SP to do a quad combo.

 

[LeeJiHye19]

Wow, Nathan's consistency is shocking, especially when Yuzuru hasn't skated a clean 4-quad LP ever yet.

I am scared that because of this Yuzu will push himself harder :sad46:

 

[HanDomi]

I am quite sure if Hanyu would go throw quad to quad at beginning he would nail easily his planned quads, but he spreads them trough program a lot, doing a lot stuff between, that's very tiring and hard to keep conentration

 

[Meoima]

You know, that's an interesting question. Is the 4Lo as a first jump a bigger problem than a -3Lo?

I think 4Lo as the first jump is less than 3lo as the second jump.

I am quite sure if Hanyu would go throw quad to quad at beginning he would nail easily his planned quads, but he spreads them trough program a lot, doing a lot stuff between, that's very tiring and hard to keep conentration

I still think putting 4-3 in the second half of the program is unwise. He was injured in the left foot because he did 4T3T in the second half. I don't think 4S3T is anything better, not to mention the repeat ding. I don't get why he wants 4-3 in the second half. No men does that just for fraction of bonus. Maybe he will become wiser and do combo in the first half?

 

[alia jackson]

^^^ Maybe for Yuzu it is a matter of principle like Mao

 

[narcissa]

^^^ Maybe for Yuzu it is a matter of principle like Mao

Well, that's not good. Mao's stubbornness may have helped her get where she is now, but it's also cost her a lot, and I'd hate to see Yuzu lose competitions because of things that he can so easily change...

 

[seimei]

I am quite sure if Hanyu would go throw quad to quad at beginning he would nail easily his planned quads, but he spreads them trough program a lot, doing a lot stuff between, that's very tiring and hard to keep conentration

But he will not... many other skaters including yuzu don't and can't this. Because there are ways they have done and can't build their programs without 4types of quad. chen unlike boyang, he has quite good ss and good team. So of course, he will effort for his pcs. But as if he keeps and hits his tech from now, regardless of pcs, he will win. except for when yuzu javi chan clean original layout. but latters might be more difficult..

maybe when chen starts win everything and 3 or 4 quad fs is going to general, the thing you said will be trend among skaters like girl's backloading . But there will be many skaters still add choreo, turns ..etc between jumps,also.

Although I started post with mixed feeling after watching USnats short. but still think It's not time to chill yet. And even if he can't clean and lose to young quadsters or other skaters
, it will be cruel to see but I can't help it..it's just sports. He had some bright moments, so others have..I think.
I might be a less competitive fan. I hope this thread keep positive and focus yuzu.