Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[gladiolusc]

With that interview do you mean the part where he talks about being in unison with the music? I think that's definitely the end goal but it's not completely there yet, which is what I meant by him still trying to match the music by catching up or slowing down. There's a bit of a mismatch at some points especially with his upper body but I like that this program (and Notte Stellata too) forces him to slow down and be more aware of his arm movements.

I've listened to the music so much that when I started hearing the background viola (?) part near the end that sounds like buzzing, I thought I was hearing things, haha.

Ahh. I see. For me, the main sense of mismatch is mostly in the beginning of the program. I'm not fully getting the opening choreo yet (the upper body looked like it was simply going through the motion a little bit. What you said about the discrepancy between the anxiety of competition and the gentle emotions HL meant to convey, I've thought that before - especially during the live streams. In addition to his own nerves (which he did a good job of concealing for the most part), it's also my nerves as a spectator/viewer watching his performance. I'm nervous and on edge watching him just because.

 

[stormblade]

An article looking at the tech content progression over one year. A good read that soothes the nerves (a little)

https://sportymags.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/yuzuru-hanyu-technical-content/

 

[gladiolusc]

https://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/is-the-quad-axel-the-next-frontier/

Some mentions of Yuzu here too =w= Kurt Browning and Brian praises Yuzu and commenting on his 3A.

 

[mcq]

https://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2017/02/11/is-the-quad-axel-the-next-frontier/

Some mentions of Yuzu here too =w= Kurt Browning and Brian praises Yuzu and commenting on his 3A.

Interesting article. I found many opinions about 3A, some say skidless axel is better, others said it is ok to skid and it is just natural. Seems Brian is the type who thinks both are fine. I found another article from B.smith regarding Chan. There is a part where Elvis Stojko mentioned about Hanyu and how he has to endure mistakes to stabilize his quad. Will quote it here

Hanyu has taken lots of falls. Stojko, a two-time Olympic silver medalist, can see how it’s all building to the 2018 Games.
He told Chan, since everyone is now working on quads, that he has one season only to get this right. He must add the quads now. “I told him, you are going to make mistakes, bro,” Stojko said. “You may have to give up competition and wins for it. Hanyu did. The last couple of years, he tried quads and fell. How many performances have you seen him just splat everywhere? And then all of a sudden, last year he does that almost perfect program. He’s starting to do it.

 

[gladiolusc]

Interesting article. I found many opinions about 3A, some say skidless axel is better, others said it is ok to skid and it is just natural. Seems Brian is the type who thinks both are fine. I found another article from B.smith regarding Chan. There is a part where Elvis Stojko mentioned about Hanyu and how he has to endure mistakes to stabilize his quad. Will quote it here

I was just wondering. What does "skidding into an axel" even mean?

 

[narcissa]

I was just wondering. What does "skidding into an axel" even mean?

Yeah. Sounds painful

 

[nekun]

people already mention a quint? crazy, I hope Yuzu will already retire when that era happen

 

[mcq]

I was just wondering. What does "skidding into an axel" even mean?

The meaning is quite literal, I think? You skid your takeoff edge when you takeoff during an axel jump (do I make sense? I don't know how to explain it well in English, maybe someone else can explain it better than me ). Apparently it is acceptable and natural, just like pre-rotation is, as long as you didn't take off backward (or forward for other jumps). But some also think jumping a skidless axel (like jumping with very minimum or no pre-rotation) is considered a superior technique, while some others said it is preferences and that both are just as fine; seems like Brian is one of those who thinks so. I also heard some who said skidding slightly is a preferred/better technique, because it gave you more control (?) during takeoff. I personally have no idea which one is better lol.

Will quote what Brian said here :

“There are different ways to do an Axel. You have those that go in off an edge. You have those who skid into an Axel. There is no way better than another. Javi [Fernandez] has a skid. Yuzuru has an edge. Stephen [Gogolev, 12, who has landed a quad Salchow this season] has an edge. I had a skid. Some coaches prefer to teach a skid, some prefer to teach an edge. There’s a lot of torque in the foot with a skid, and it kind of releases your rotation.”

 

[Meoima]

The meaning is quite literal, I think? You skid your takeoff edge when you takeoff during an axel jump (do I make sense? I don't know how to explain it well in English, maybe someone else can explain it better than me ). Apparently it is acceptable and natural, just like pre-rotation is, as long as you didn't take off backward (or forward for other jumps). But some also think jumping a skidless axel (like jumping with very minimum or no pre-rotation) is considered a superior technique, while some others said it is preferences and that both are just as fine; seems like Brian is one of those who thinks so. Will quote what Brian said here :

Yeap. Javi has quite a lot of skid before 3A, it's almost backward.
Yuzuru on the other hand, has no skid at all.

 

[mcq]

Yeap. Javi has quite a lot of skid before 3A, it's almost backward.
Yuzuru on the other hand, has no skid at all.

Yep. I personally don't know which one is a better technique though.

I heard some thinks skidding slightly is actually a preferred/better technique because it gave more control during takeoff and make the jumps more "secure". Though I am leaning to think taking off from a clean edge is the superior and more "pure" technique because you have no assistance from the skid. Apparently even coaches are divided on this. Lol.

 

[Raomina]

Does having a skid mean that you rotate on the ice during takeoff? I notice that Yuzuru digs his edge into the ice and snap up really cleanly when he takes off, which is why he can do his 3A from a standstill. Some skaters slow down a lot before take off (e.g. Nam and Junhwan come to mind). Do they also take off by going off on the edge? I would think that skidding would require more speed and momentum into the jump since there's no 'grip', so to say, on the ice during takeoff.

I'd also think that Yuzuru's technique is why he can do back counter 3A. Skidders probably cannot do that?

 

[mcq]

Does having a skid mean that you rotate on the ice during takeoff? I notice that Yuzuru digs his edge into the ice and snap up really cleanly when he takes off, which is why he can do his 3A from a standstill. Some skaters slow down a lot before take off (e.g. Nam and Junhwan come to mind). Do they also take off by going off on the edge? I would think that skidding would require more speed and momentum into the jump since there's no 'grip', so to say, on the ice during takeoff.

I'd also think that Yuzuru's technique is why he can do back counter 3A. Skidders probably cannot do that?

Lol no idea really. I actually heard some say that skidding actually helps "gripping" the ice more, which is why some think it makes your jump more secure and controlled. So I am not so sure. Yuzuru takes off from a clean edge with almost no skid mostly, just like Brian said, but I don't think that is the main reason why he can do back-counter 3A easily? :think:

 

[Meoima]

Does having a skid mean that you rotate on the ice during takeoff? I notice that Yuzuru digs his edge into the ice and snap up really cleanly when he takes off, which is why he can do his 3A from a standstill. Some skaters slow down a lot before take off (e.g. Nam and Junhwan come to mind). Do they also take off by going off on the edge? I would think that skidding would require more speed and momentum into the jump since there's no 'grip', so to say, on the ice during takeoff.
I'd also think that Yuzuru's technique is why he can do back counter 3A. Skidders probably cannot do that?

Yuzuru is the only one who does counter into 3A so... I am not sure if because of his technique or because of his confidence in this jump.
I remember Mishin style doesn't like skid before 3A.
And this is one reason why I don't think Yuzuru's 3A is from Mao's at all. Yeah he might said he took some tips from Mao's 3A but his 3A is vastly different from her 3A.

 

[Raomina]

Lol no idea really. I actually heard some say that skidding actually helps "gripping" the ice more, which is why some think it makes your jump more secure and controlled. So I am not so sure. Yuzuru takes off from a clean edge with almost no skid mostly, just like Brian said, but I don't think that is the main reason why he can do back-counter 3A easily? :think:

Yuzuru is the only one who does counter into 3A so... I am not sure if because of his technique or because of his confidence in this jump.
I remember Mishin style doesn't like skid before 3A.
And this is one reason why I don't think Yuzuru's 3A is from Mao's at all. Yeah he might said he took some tips from Mao's 3A but his 3A is vastly different from her 3A.

I think I'm still having trouble visualizing how you can skid into the jump. Do you know of any other skaters who do that and have videos that showcase it clearly? Is Javier the best example? I'd have to look up videos of his 3A since I only really have a good impression of Yuzuru's and it's just kinda 'duh' like that's how it should be done.

I'm sure you not only need the technique to do back counter 3A but would skaters without the same non-skid technique not be able to do that just due to the physics of it? Like, from my basic knowledge of what skidding means, how would skidding and back counter work together? Can you skid out of a back counter?

Maybe what he took from Mao was the way to swing the right leg forward to get enough power rather than the edge takeoff technique? No idea about that.

Also, the general consensus is that his back counter 3A is the hardest entry, but I always thought his entry into his 2nd 3A in R&J2 (the backwards spread-eagle?) seemed more difficult?

 

[mcq]

Also, the general consensus is that his back counter 3A is the hardest entry, but I always thought his entry into his 2nd 3A in R&J2 (the backwards spread-eagle?) seemed more difficult?

His second 3A from RJ2 is also a back-counter entry but it was preceded by spread eagle, if my memory doesn't fail me.

You can check Javi's 3A, he skids quite visibly and compare it to Yuzuru's, who takes off from an almost clean edge.

 

[Pika]

I think I'm still having trouble visualizing how you can skid into the jump. Do you know of any other skaters who do that and have videos that showcase it clearly? Is Javier the best example? I'd have to look up videos of his 3A since I only really have a good impression of Yuzuru's and it's just kinda 'duh' like that's how it should be done.

I think the slo-mo here shows it pretty well.
https://youtu.be/Q-C4tfa5szk?t=5m27s

 

[FTnoona]

When I think of skidded axels, the first that pop into my mind is Evan Lysacek. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku79GDD24fU
I feel like when a skater skids into an axel it's almost like they hockey stop for a brief seconds before jumping up.

 

[gladiolusc]

When I think of skidded axels, the first that pop into my mind is Evan Lysacek. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku79GDD24fU
I feel like when a skater skids into an axel it's almost like they hockey stop for a brief seconds before jumping up.

The meaning is quite literal, I think? You skid your takeoff edge when you takeoff during an axel jump (do I make sense? I don't know how to explain it well in English, maybe someone else can explain it better than me ). Apparently it is acceptable and natural, just like pre-rotation is, as long as you didn't take off backward (or forward for other jumps). But some also think jumping a skidless axel (like jumping with very minimum or no pre-rotation) is considered a superior technique, while some others said it is preferences and that both are just as fine; seems like Brian is one of those who thinks so. I also heard some who said skidding slightly is a preferred/better technique, because it gave you more control (?) during takeoff. I personally have no idea which one is better lol.

Thanks FTnoona, Pika for the visuals and mcq for explaining. It's clear for me now.

Haha, when I saw mcq's explanation I was still grasping at straws and not really visualizing. But then I saw the videos, and I caught myself thinking "oh literally skidding to an almost stop" which is exactly what mcq said

 

[Pika]

About skidding the one that pops into my mind currently is Misha Ge.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Isn't skidding a lot more common than the clear edge take off? I think Nathan Chen is another clear example of someone skidding into his 3A. I'd have to check, but I think Patrick Chan also has more of an edge take off... Adelina Sotnikova did too, while Mao for example skids.