Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season | Page 784 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

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I've been meaning to ask—so far, I haven't connected with H&L either. Can you share your favorite musical moments and choreographic touches with me? Help me learn to love it. What do you love?

Hi beki, I particularly like the improved step sequence (done at NHK and after).

I had a chance to see this program when Yuzu first debuted it at Autumn Classic and I think it's definitely improved a lot since then, although I wouldn't say this is my favorite program of his. I also wouldn't say that this program is divisive as it doesn't seem to be negatively received, I'd say more people are indifferent to the music. The music is quieter, softer, it's not 100% dramatic nor is it character or story driven which I think is what makes it a challenging piece.

I think one of the issues may be that this program is pieced together from two songs, Asian Dream Song and View of Silence, both of which have their own start and end that work well on their own, but comes off differently when the two pieces are combined. I think the way the music is cut and put together makes the individual pieces lose a bit of their original impact. For me the program feels like a quiet build up and release, build up and release, all the way up to the choreographic sequence at the end - in that way it's very similar to Seimei in which we have these moments within the program that build in intensity, then drops and builds again. Hope and Legacy is more abstract than a program like Seimei, and I think that may be a reason why some people don't connect to it immediately. I think this program is meant to be more of a stepping stone, so I'm VERY curious to know what they have in store for next season.
 
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I think we've touched that subject before, i don't think the problem is that we're from a different culture and that means we can't like it because how different it is to what we know. I think that the problem is that we don't know the right approach, H&L is subtle (actually, i am not sure, anyone japanese please correct me if i'm using the wrong term but honestly the word "iki" comes to my mind when watching H&L). If it was just a cultural difference then people wouldn't have liked Seimei.

Seimei and H&L is very different. Although people may consider both of them is Japanese style.
Seimei is a well-know historical character, a legend, Yuzu played the role from what he know about Seimei.
But H&L is an autobiography on ice. It's Yuzu's story, it's his life and his hometown and his dream.Fighting against destiny, being loved and being supported and leaving home for chasing his dream.
 
Hi beki, I particularly like the improved step sequence (done at NHK and after).

I had a chance to see this program when Yuzu first debuted it at Autumn Classic and I think it's definitely improved a lot since then, although I wouldn't say this is my favorite program of his. I also wouldn't say that this program is divisive as it doesn't seem to be negatively received, I'd say more people are indifferent to the music. The music is quieter, softer, it's not 100% dramatic nor is it character or story driven which I think is what makes it a challenging piece.

I think one of the issues may be that this program is pieced together from two songs, Asian Dream Song and View of Silence, both of which have their own start and end that work well on their own, but comes off differently when the two pieces are combined. I think the way the music is cut and put together makes the individual pieces lose a bit of their original impact. For me the program feels like a quiet build up and release, build up and release, all the way up to the choreographic sequence at the end - in that way it's very similar to Seimei in which we have these moments within the program that build in intensity, then drops and builds again. Hope and Legacy is more abstract than a program like Seimei, and I think that may be a reason why some people don't connect to it immediately. I think this program is meant to be more of a stepping stone, so I'm VERY curious to know what they have in store for next season.
Regardless of the opinion anyone might have about H&L, i think this is what we should be focusing on. I think that experimental could be a good word that applies to H&L.
Seimei and H&L is very different. Although people may consider both of them is Japanese style.
Seimei is a well-know historical character, a legend, Yuzu played the role from what he know about Seimei.
But H&L is an autobiography on ice. It's Yuzu's story, it's his life and his hometown and his dream.Fighting against destiny, being loved and being supported and leaving home for chasing his dream.

And i'm not saying they are the same. I know what they're supposed to represent. But like kiches said, H&L is more of an abstract program compared with Seimei. Add to that the subtetly of japanese music and of course there are some people who are going to be confused.
 
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i love H&L, its hauntingly beautiful in a way, and when its timed correctly, its outstanding but it's definitely not my favourite, purely because i love the more dramatic numbers such as Seimei and RJ1
 
I've been meaning to ask—so far, I haven't connected with H&L either. Can you share your favorite musical moments and choreographic touches with me? Help me learn to love it. What do you love?

It took me time to learn how to apreciate H&L, and I'm still learning. I hadn't connected with it before 4CC, tbh - but that performance at 4CC moved me. Now when I'm rewatching it I'm delighted to see how each element flows into the next one, as if the whole program was one continuous movement with only one breath in the middle... It's a bit like watching soft waves come and go on a seashore, it's beautiful and relaxing. I don't know if I make sense :laugh:
(and I particularly love how the triple flip happens when you don't expect it in the middle of steps)
 
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Add to that the subtetly of japanese music and of course there are some people who are going to be confused.
For me it's just the fact that it's two different pieces of music that tell different stories, create different feelings (which have nothing to do with Yuzu's story; I've played these pieces on the piano for a Very Long Time, I have my own ideas and images created by the music), and are suddenly put together. To me, putting parts of VoS and ADS into something new will never make sense. It's just not going to "feel" right. I've grown used to it now, I accept it to the point where the music changes don't throw me out of the program anymore, but love it, no.
Sometimes two different pieces of music works (the Planets & Leia's theme in Satoko Miyahara's program is a good example), sometimes it just... doesn't, for me. But that's what music is, it's such a personal thing.
 
Now I really want him to skate a clean H&L, so we can put it down in the history books as "that special performance to rewatch over and over" in case programs like that do go extinct.

Don't we all :laugh: I'm also in camp pretty. :o:

Actually in watching the fancam for LP practice (AC, 4CC) where he did hit 4S3T, I'm realizing how much of that climax is lost when he pops or falls. Because when it hits, it's on the beat and it's a perfect accent. When he doesn't, people are naturally distracted during what's supposed to be a climax.
 
For me it's just the fact that it's two different pieces of music that tell different stories, create different feelings (which have nothing to do with Yuzu's story; I've played these pieces on the piano for a Very Long Time, I have my own ideas and images created by the music), and are suddenly put together. To me, putting parts of VoS and ADS into something new will never make sense. It's just not going to "feel" right. I've grown used to it now, I accept it to the point where the music changes don't throw me out of the program anymore, but love it, no.
Sometimes two different pieces of music works (the Planets & Leia's theme in Satoko Miyahara's program is a good example), sometimes it just... doesn't, for me. But that's what music is, it's such a personal thing.

That's probably because you've known both pieces individually for a long time. I've heard both pieces individually and to me they do work well together :confused2:
 
And i'm not saying they are the same. I know what they're supposed to represent. But like kiches said, H&L is more of an abstract program compared with Seimei. Add to that the subtetly of japanese music and of course there are some people who are going to be confused.

Yeah, my point is about the abstract things.
 
Don't we all :laugh: I'm also in camp pretty. :o:

Actually in watching the fancam for LP practice (AC, 4CC) where he did hit 4S3T, I'm realizing how much of that climax is lost when he pops or falls. Because when it hits, it's on the beat and it's a perfect accent. When he doesn't, people are naturally distracted during what's supposed to be a climax.

Actually, up until his 3F or before that blasted jump, I think he has been on point. However, after he made that mistake on that jump you can see how he rushed and tried his best to refocus to get back into the program so that he can land the following 4T. A comparison would be how he did his Seimei at worlds, after he failed on the quad combo, the momentum is lost. I'd also suggest that for his next program, it might be better to put the Chsq after the last jump, so he can just go all out on it and not restrain himself because he subconsciously aware that he got 1 jump left. (ignore all those people who called his layout a jump fest. ha)
 
That's probably because you've known both pieces individually for a long time. I've heard both pieces individually and to me they do work well together :confused2:
Yup, very true. That's the problem. The more I hear it, the easier it gets, though. :-)
And anyway, it could be much much much worse. Could be not-Hisaishi or not-Japanese music! (off-topic: I'm a huge Miyazaki-Hisaishi collaboration fan, and a Japanese video game music fan. Sadly I won't be going to Hisaishi's concert in Paris in June, but I am going to a Japanese vgm concert in Paris in a few weeks. :yahoo:)
 
Oh dear can I just thumb up every word you wrote here because I 100% agree to each and every one of them. :ghug:

Agreed about the NDP RJ2 and POTO part. Just like PW was for me, I am (huh) at that program, but hey many actually become Yuzuru's fan because of that program and it was their fave. It's not a bad program too, i think the stsq was well-choreographed, it's just not my cup of tea.

Also agreed about the change of mood in his FS, I think it is a smart choice. It's good to see this side of him and he somehow experiment with a calmer program and not something dramatic. I consider RJ1&2 POTO and Seimei (even NDP) to be dramatic too tbh.

And yes about requiem. Same same same. For me I think I even got teary (no I am not crying you are) a bit at the end of that program at worlds. Just like you, I like lyrical programs too. Same with contemporary style programs. And I like goofy, pose-y or seductive program much less (which is why maybe I was never into Javi's or Plushy's skating lol). It's just preferences I guess. It is like asking me to like coffee when I like tea more, something like that? Lol. I don't think just because you are a fan of someone you have to like everything. :biggrin:

About LGC, I enjoy it much more than PW even from the first watch. I think it is a well-choreographed program (despite some cringey parts). But at the same time I doubt it will be in my top 10 list of a program. :biggrin:


We're soul-twins FS fans. :laugh:

I think programs like PW and Seimei, although vastly different, have in common the type of 'attention grabbing' quality that is able to generate the type of mass appeal that they achieved. Having a few programs like that is crucial to create interest, especially in a season like the Olympics one. Even with having japanese music, Seimei has a introduction-middle-dramatic ending structure that is very recognized by western and actually, since I don't want to categorize much anyone here, by everyone's ears. And this isn't related just to the music but to how the program is constructed. I think someone already said something similar about Seimei here, maybe you but I don't remember. Anyway, It's the type of 'in-you-face' characteristic that programs like Chopin or H&L will never have, being both of them appreciated by their own qualities. Chopin is maybe similar in impact to what H&L could be when skated cleanly but i'm speculating, even if some of this impact already happens when it's skated with errors to those who already favours this kind of floaty and quiet programs like myself.

I'm also not too fond of 'cheeky' and 'seductive' programs. I can see how some of them excel in their own way but I wont say more than "Well, that's was nice. I guess." most of the times. And you won't find me watching them on loop. Another type that I really can't bring myself to love is tangos except a select few, although I kind of prefer them over 'supposed-to-be-funny' programs which isn't saying much. I'm all for the drama and the pretty. basically the chanyu :dbana:
 
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I love H&L so much as much i love SEIMEI. It just got into my heart and even growing more.. The music and the choreography are so beautiful.. Makes me cry... If yuzuru do it clean at world, perhaps it will be my fav, more than SEIMEI.. I love dramatic music but the soft music that moved my heart are better
 
Any news of Yuzu's 4Lz? Is it still at 60%? And is that as a solo jump or in runthroughs? :( (worried)
 
I've been meaning to ask—so far, I haven't connected with H&L either. Can you share your favorite musical moments and choreographic touches with me? Help me learn to love it. What do you love?
Hey beki, I have a lot of opinions on this divisive program, so long post ahead :) This is my favorite version of this performance.

For me, H&L is best viewed with an unobstructed view via fan footage, you get a real sense of the expanse and scope of his ice coverage, how massive his jumps are, how effortlessly he gains speed, and you don't get bogged down by details of facial expression (which is admittedly much more important for TV viewers, so it's still integral). You see the big picture, he's not doing two-footed, upright skating throwing his arms up periodically to obvious accents in the music in front of the judges, he's doing full body movement, getting low in the knees or stretching up high, using all levels of his body, twisting and turning his blades to the music.

Some people criticize him for not being balletic, but he's not telling a story through balletic gestures that happen to be on ice, he's using the language of figure skating. :) His crossovers match the music, his transitions match the music, his jumps match the music.

Look at the choctaw into a mohawk he does at the beginning before his 4S right on those low piano notes. The step sequence is lovely and ribbon-like, flowing and stopping in unexpected places but according to the music, which of course he transitions right out of into the flip: the excitement of the entry, the pick right on the change of music, and the gentle unraveling with a RBO twizzle to the melody of the strings (watch the timing of his blades!). It all seems natural, why wouldn't you save your 3rd jump for there instead of doing all 3 jumps one after the other? The sweeping flow out of the 2S+1Lo pop :biggrin: and the spread eagle with arms aloft that he doesn't even direct towards the judges, the way he releases his hands. The tensions building and then the cut to silence right as he does his 4T. How he changes directions from backwards to forwards and back with the music into a perfect 3A+3T that lands right on that high piano note. The successive flowing movements right after that. The flying entry into his sit spin out of a spread eagle that goes up and drops right as the music takes a lower tone, building tension. The ChSq that actually uses a lunge, a (tired :biggrin:) spread eagle, hops and changes of direction, a hydroblade, and an inabauer when all his muscles must be on fire. It's probably one of the most taxing and substantial ChSq in the field, requiring him to go high and low and high and low, which of course he then goes straight into his final jump in the last 20 seconds of his program. Of course the final jump should be there! The music is so grand and driving, what other better way to punctuate the climax of the journey? And then transition using all the flow from his final jump to go into the tap entry he does into his combination spin that matches great with the music. And just a little thing, but how he actually uses a tap for his flying change of foot in that final combination spin. The tap is so important so that it visually separates the spin into two distinct halves to match the music. Spinning through music changes drives me bonkers :biggrin: and I don't recall him using the tap in any of his senior LPs. It's what he's doing that he's never done before, breaking up his first 3 jumping passes, the jump at the end of the program since 2011/12 season, the 4Lo!!!, and even little touches like that tap change-of-foot in his last spin and the way he gently brought down his Biellmann leg at the GPF that makes everything seems so organic and natural but new and challenging at the same time.

No element is shoehorned in a way that compromises the music because of an easier jump layout. He's the only one among the top 6 men that is doing a layout that doesn't start with 3-4 jumps and then does the rest of them in the second half one after the other (only Javi does a spin before his last jump). Yuzuru's layout is actually most similar to Jason Brown's FS, and I think many of the challenges they face are the same.

Like others have said, when his jumps fail, this program fails too because more-so than the other top skaters, the jumps are important highlights in the choreography (that 4S+3T:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::palmf::bang:). When people say "you can watch it without the jumps", what's the point of the jumps then? Why not integrate them into the choreography and make them important to the music? You should be missing out without the jumps, otherwise that's holistically not a very strong program. And I think this program shows that more than any other of his. I think even if you don't connect with the music emotionally yourself, there's so much to admire in how the program is constructed, the actually core of skating blade-ice vs body movements, the continuity and flow linking all the elements, and the challenge that this program presents.
 
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I might be completely clueless but, why not?

Now both Nathan and Boyang have two plans for their LP this season:four quads version, and five quads version(Nathan used it in US national while Boyang used it in 4CC).
Talking too much about Yuzu's immature 4Lz may stimulate the 5 quad battle, I don't think this will be good for him now.
 
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