Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[beki]

Hey beki, I have a lot of opinions on this divisive program, so long post ahead This is my favorite version of this performance.

For me, H&L is best viewed with an unobstructed view via fan footage, you get a real sense of the expanse and scope of his ice coverage, how massive his jumps are, how effortlessly he gains speed, and you don't get bogged down by details of facial expression (which is admittedly much more important for TV viewers, so it's still integral). You see the big picture, he's not doing two-footed, upright skating throwing his arms up periodically to obvious accents in the music in front of the judges, he's doing full body movement, getting low in the knees or stretching up high, using all levels of his body, twisting and turning his blades to the music.

Some people criticize him for not being balletic, but he's not telling a story through balletic gestures that happen to be on ice, he's using the language of figure skating. His crossovers match the music, his transitions match the music, his jumps match the music.

Look at the choctaw into a mohawk he does at the beginning before his 4S right on those low piano notes. The step sequence is lovely and ribbon-like, flowing and stopping in unexpected places but according to the music, which of course he transitions right out of into the flip: the excitement of the entry, the pick right on the change of music, and the gentle unraveling. It all seems natural, why wouldn't you save your 3rd jump for there instead of doing all 3 jumps one after the other? The sweeping flow out of the 2S+1Lo pop and the spread eagle with arms aloft that he doesn't even direct towards the judges, the way he releases his hands. The tensions building and then the cut to silence right as he does his 4T. How he changes directions from backwards to forwards and back with the music into a perfect 3A+3T that lands right on that high piano note. The successive flowing movements right after that. The flying entry into his sit spin out of a spread eagle that goes up and drops right as the music takes a lower tone, building tension. The ChSq that actually uses a lunge, a (tired ) spread eagle, hops and changes of direction, a hydroblade, and an inabauer when all his muscles must be on fire. It's probably one of the most taxing and substantial ChSq in the field, requiring him to go high and low and high and low, which of course he then goes straight into his final jump in the last 20 seconds of his program. Of course the final jump should be there! The music is so grand and driving, what other better way to punctuate the climax of the journey? And then transition using all the flow from his final jump to go into the tap entry he does into his combination spin that matches great with the music. And just a little thing, but how he actually uses a tap for his flying change of foot in that final combination spin. The tap is so important so that it visually separates the spin into two distinct halves to match the music. Spinning through music changes drives me bonkers and I don't recall him using the tap in any of his senior LPs. It's what he's doing that he's never done before, breaking up his first 3 jumping passes, the jump at the end of the program since 2011/12 season, the 4Lo!!!, and even little touches like that tap change-of-foot in his last spin and the way he gently brought down his Biellmann leg at the GPF that makes everything seems so organic and natural but new and challenging at the same time.

No element is shoehorned in a way that compromises the music because of an easier jump layout. He's the only one among the top 6 men that is doing a layout that doesn't start with 3-4 jumps and then does the rest of them in the second half one after the other (only Javi does a spin before his last jump). Yuzuru's layout is actually most similar to Jason Brown's FS, and I think many of the challenges they face are the same.

Like others have said, when his jumps fail, this program fails too because more-so than the other top skaters, the jumps are important highlights in the choreography (that 4S+3T). When people say "you can watch it without the jumps", what's the point of the jumps then? Why not integrate them into the choreography and make them important to the music? You should be missing out without the jumps, otherwise that's holistically not a very strong program. And I think this program shows that more than any other of his. I think even if you don't connect with the music emotionally yourself, there's so much to admire in how the program is constructed, the actually core of skating blade-ice vs body movements, the continuity and flow linking all the elements, and the challenge that this program presents.

This is PERFECT! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for your hard work putting this response together. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing it live!

 

[unico]

On the note of TSL, don't worry too much about them. Their opinions are not any more valid, knowledgeable, or important than your own, they just have a wide platform to broadcast it. Watch them if you want to, acknowledge their opinions, but don't get worked up about it. :yes: Everyone has their own biases and remember that they're also an American platform with a disposition towards stirring up drama. I mean I've never believed them when they've said they're fans anyway (including calling him an underwhelming Olympic Champion, someone without star quality, the list goes on ) and if you notice their only compliment since SEIMEI tends to be "he's a warrior!" and never about his skating beyond the obvious. I would say they sometimes acknowledges when he does well but otherwise he's great for advertisement in YouTube thumbnails and hashtags on twitter. Just think of them as other posters on GS or another twitter account and don't give them the time of day (or clicks) if you don't want to.

ETA:

This is PERFECT! Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for your hard work putting this response together. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing it live!

No problem, any excuse I have to talk about the subtleties of this program I'll take I hope you enjoy it live too!

Also, credits to Lambari for linking all of the fancam footage in this thread! I'm not sure I would have found all this great version without it. :hap85:

 

[narcissa]

On the note of TSL, don't worry too much about them. Their opinions are not any more valid, knowledgeable, or important than your own, they just have a wide platform to broadcast it. Watch them if you want to, acknowledge their opinions, but don't get worked up about it. :yes: Everyone has their own biases and remember that they're also an American platform with a disposition towards stirring up drama. I mean I've never believed them when they've said they're fans anyway (including calling him an underwhelming Olympic Champion, someone without star quality, the list goes on ) and if you notice their only compliment since SEIMEI tends to be "he's a warrior!" and never about his skating beyond the obvious. I would say they sometimes acknowledges when he does well but otherwise he's great for advertisement in YouTube thumbnails and hashtags on twitter. Just think of them as other posters on GS or another twitter account and don't give them the time of day (or clicks) if you don't want to.

holy crap i want to stab something

 

[YuzusHydroblade]

On the note of TSL, don't worry too much about them. Their opinions are not any more valid, knowledgeable, or important than your own, they just have a wide platform to broadcast it. Watch them if you want to, acknowledge their opinions, but don't get worked up about it. :yes: Everyone has their own biases and remember that they're also an American platform with a disposition towards stirring up drama. I mean I've never believed them when they've said they're fans anyway (including calling him an underwhelming Olympic Champion, someone without star quality, the list goes on ) and if you notice their only compliment since SEIMEI tends to be "he's a warrior!" and never about his skating beyond the obvious. I would say they sometimes acknowledges when he does well but otherwise he's great for advertisement in YouTube thumbnails and hashtags on twitter. Just think of them as other posters on GS or another twitter account and don't give them the time of day (or clicks) if you don't want to.

Meanwhile we have Planet Hanyu...
Are you sure they are talking about the same person?
I can't comprehend how anyone could say things like that about Yuzuru Hanyu, no matter how much you hate him.
Someone screen the number of views+posts this thread has... i doubt this could be possible if he was so underwhelming lol
i am shocked

 

[Fayruza]

Meanwhile we have Planet Hanyu...
Are you sure they are talking about the same person?
I can't comprehend how anyone could say things like that about Yuzuru Hanyu, no matter how much you hate him.
Someone screen the number of views+posts this thread has... i doubt this could be possible if he was so underwhelming lol
i am shocked

I wonder how these things could be said about any skater - after all, all top skaters work their socks off just to be where they are. They don't deserve this sort of condescending treatment by people who haven't done anything for the sport.

 

[narcissa]

i'm sure if yuzu wins in pyeongchang next year they'll call him the world's most underwhelming 2 time olympic champion........

 

[beki]

I always have mixed feelings about TSL. Because Yuzuru has improved, they have dropped some of their past criticisms of him. Like being floppy like a noodle (I actually understood what they meant by that). Now Dave says he looks down at the ice too much. But he is working on his audience connection with LGC. So he probably won't be able to say that in the future. I have to give it to Yuzu, Javi and Patrick Chan; they keep working on their weaknesses. It's way too early to tell if the younger skaters can make that kind of mark.

 

[moonkat]

On the note of TSL, don't worry too much about them. Their opinions are not any more valid, knowledgeable, or important than your own, they just have a wide platform to broadcast it. Watch them if you want to, acknowledge their opinions, but don't get worked up about it. :yes: Everyone has their own biases and remember that they're also an American platform with a disposition towards stirring up drama. I mean I've never believed them when they've said they're fans anyway (including calling him an underwhelming Olympic Champion, someone without star quality, the list goes on ) and if you notice their only compliment since SEIMEI tends to be "he's a warrior!" and never about his skating beyond the obvious. I would say they sometimes acknowledges when he does well but otherwise he's great for advertisement in YouTube thumbnails and hashtags on twitter. Just think of them as other posters on GS or another twitter account and don't give them the time of day (or clicks) if you don't want to.

ETA:


No problem, any excuse I have to talk about the subtleties of this program I'll take I hope you enjoy it live too!

Also, credits to Lambari for linking all of the fancam footage in this thread! I'm not sure I would have found all this great version without it. :hap85:

Can we get a warning about TSL on the first page of this fanfest?
Seems like a lot of Yuzu fans, myself included, are lured into watching their videos, only to discover how biased they are against Yuzu. TSL keeps popping up in this thread because fans who haven't watched them are unaware.

 

[Lys]

Hey beki, I have a lot of opinions on this divisive program, so long post ahead This is my favorite version of this performance.

For me, H&L is best viewed with an unobstructed view via fan footage, you get a real sense of the expanse and scope of his ice coverage, how massive his jumps are, how effortlessly he gains speed, and you don't get bogged down by details of facial expression (which is admittedly much more important for TV viewers, so it's still integral). You see the big picture, he's not doing two-footed, upright skating throwing his arms up periodically to obvious accents in the music in front of the judges, he's doing full body movement, getting low in the knees or stretching up high, using all levels of his body, twisting and turning his blades to the music.

Can I give you one thousand more of thumbs up?
You put down my thoughts on this program to a T.

Points wise there is little sense in some of those choices (that 3F that stays in the first half for a little more than couple of seconds or that final jumping pass just before the end are just two of the most glaring examples), but they are just perfect choices if you look at the program itself.
I find H&L to be a more complex program than Seimei - not only for its technical content but also in what requires to the audience to grasp it.
When I watched it live at Marseille I basically told everyone I know that first half was the best program I had ever seen - better even than Seimei or Chopin at Barcelona the previous year (and those were pretty special too ), then sadly it lost its magic in the second half after that fall, but that first half still takes my breath away. And I do agree that watching it on official TV recording doesn't make it feel half of what the program is.

 

[xeyra]

I don't really listen to TSL, haven't felt the need to, don't like the host much so haven't listened to it enough to make much of an impression, but when I found them a few months ago when I was checking Yuzu related videos, I came across their review of NHK 2015 (or was it GPF?). Apparently they couldn't really say much except great performance BUT he needs to point his goddamn toes. Because that's the only thing to talk about in relation to that performance, it's the lack of pointed toes.

 

[DiamondDust]

TBH, I could not believe my ears when listening to TSL, and doubted my listening ability in English. As far as reading your posts, it seems I caught what they said right. Oh, well, I don't want to call them, ah, armatures, but.....

I saw 4CC on J-Sport 4 the other day, and the commentator, Hideo Sugita, former ISU referee, was apparently disappointed with Yuzuru's score, saying Yuzuru should have evaluated much higher in PCS, because he was doing so much difficult things before and after jumps.

Noriko Shirota commented the same in Yomiuri Shimbun on Feb. 28th. She said it (not so much difference in PCS from Nathen) might be because of the music/theme Yuzuru has chosen this time, but he challenged the tougher way, not choosing classic or movie themes with dramatic tunes, in order to improve himself more.

Sadly at the current era, it seems the judging panel is willing to throw high marks to skaters who'd be doing more quads, and not to the skaters who do much difficulty while incorporating jumps. :dev2:

P.s. been reading the comments about TSL it's really laughable, even more so than the judges giving close scores for transitions to Nathan as Yuzu.

 

[Lambari]

On the note of TSL, don't worry too much about them. Their opinions are not any more valid, knowledgeable, or important than your own, they just have a wide platform to broadcast it. Watch them if you want to, acknowledge their opinions, but don't get worked up about it. :yes: Everyone has their own biases and remember that they're also an American platform with a disposition towards stirring up drama. I mean I've never believed them when they've said they're fans anyway (including calling him an underwhelming Olympic Champion, someone without star quality, the list goes on ) and if you notice their only compliment since SEIMEI tends to be "he's a warrior!" and never about his skating beyond the obvious. I would say they sometimes acknowledges when he does well but otherwise he's great for advertisement in YouTube thumbnails and hashtags on twitter. Just think of them as other posters on GS or another twitter account and don't give them the time of day (or clicks) if you don't want to.

ETA:


No problem, any excuse I have to talk about the subtleties of this program I'll take I hope you enjoy it live too!

Also, credits to Lambari for linking all of the fancam footage in this thread! I'm not sure I would have found all this great version without it. :hap85:

Oh, thanks. That's just my fancam obssession that I can't keep for myself.

If already at 4CC we have fancams being uploaded even almost 15 days after the event started I wonder just how many we will have during Olympics. Probably every angle available and I'm not complaining. Japanese audience is one of my favourite skating crowds but the policy of no-fancams during NHK and other competitions that take place there are a pain, although I understand that Japan is usually strict with broadcasting rights.

Olympics will be fancam paradise.

___________________________________________

About the 'underwhelming Olympic Champion' comment from TSL, I believe that was just right after Sochi after the anti-climatic men's event or during 2014-2015 when external factors didn't let him have a succesful season, I'm not sure. Which doesn't make it any less uncalled for though. I remember it was half understandable giving the context but other things they've said certainly not, some of them were posted as examples in this thread.

If anything, that statement right now couldn't be more innapropriate since, without citing any names, we've had some truly underwhelming Olympic champions before, giving their previous accomplishments before the games and/or their contribuition after they've won it. And I'm not condeming any of it, Olympics is based on who can get it done at that exact moment, I'm just talking about the general sentiment. Even if Yuzuru's skating isn't of someone's liking, it's easy to recognize how much he has given to the sport and certainly the audience he brings to it, which outweights any other skater at the moment. Olympics are usually where the 'stars' are made if I'm allowed to say something cheesy, but Yuzuru's accolade since them shows that Sochi wasn't his peak since his overall improvement in skating quality since 2014 is astounding.

 

[DiamondDust]

I've been meaning to ask—so far, I haven't connected with H&L either. Can you share your favorite musical moments and choreographic touches with me? Help me learn to love it. What do you love?

Nearly everyone's favorite SEIMEI has a clear story, Yuzu is playing a character and the program itself is projects strength and power. On the other hand, H&L is the opposite. But what I do like about this program is the fact that it's the opposite of SEIMEI. Favorite musical moments would be the spins, they give me the impression of tornadoes, the wind and the stsq / chsq at the final minute with the change in the music cue is like a turbulence from such a quiet piece and until now, I thought it's like the turbulence the sea (LOL! Am I making sense here? ). Well, the program itself is about Nature so I think it's fantastic enough.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

i'm sure if yuzu wins in pyeongchang next year they'll call him the world's most underwhelming 2 time olympic champion........

Very likely. And given how in FS he'd be only the second double OGM since Dick Button (I think?), meaning he's nearly be the only 2 time OGM... they'd be kind of right. He'd be the most underwhelming and overwhelming and generally whelming double OGM in FS since men are doing triples, by virtue of being the only one. That is the only way how even a (very) blind chicken like TSL finds a corn. If you think about it like that, it's pretty funny.

 

[liv]

Yuzu has so much in his skating... just rewatched sochi sp... 101 and change for a 4t program... nathan's 4cc sp with the harder quads just 103... so different.

All I want is a clean LGC, to see if wr will be broken, because the quality is just as high as Chopin... it is not like the elements are any different, other than new 4L. If he is clean as a whistle... and does not get the marks then, well, .... something is wrong in Denmark.

 

[beki]

I am disappointed the Olympic short program and free program are on consecutive days again, aren't they? It's so out of the ordinary not to have a rest day, and another LP splatfest wouldn't be surprising

 

[gladiolusc]

Everything everything everything!

I second the thousands thumbs up. Because this is what I've been saying to friends (except you have it all so much more eloquently put) and then some. Also because I've unconsciously been watching all the fancams instead of the original broadcast. Now I'm just directing them to your post

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You all are so well-spoken I wish I could be half that :luv17: instead of resorting to arm flails.

 

[YuzusHydroblade]

I second the thousands thumbs up. Because this is what I've been saying to friends (except you have it all so much more eloquently put) and then some. Also because I've unconsciously been watching all the fancams instead of the original broadcast. Now I'm just directing them to your post

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You all are so well-spoken I wish I could be half that :luv17: instead of resorting to arm flails.

I've accepted arm flailing as an integral part of my communication Yuzuru always makes me feel like i lack vocabulary to describe the feelings caused by him...

 

[dasani]

whole post

Thank you unico for sharing your wonderful notes on H&L, I just have to login to contribute to the 1000 thumbs up for your post. We should name today Hope&Legacy appreciation day

I remember seeing SEIMEI's debut in SCAC 2015 and thinking Yuzu surely had lots of guts to introduce a very Japanese centric program to the skating world. I think there were worries back then that the judges "would not get it". And looked how it turned out to be almost everyone's favourite. This is no doubt an iconic program in Yuzu's skating career.

But I would say picking H&L right after SEIMEI's huge success takes even more guts to do so! It is so opposite to everything SEIMEI is, and he could just go back to his usual dramatic style programs. And how wonderful for us to witness Yuzu's progress to conquer this challenge setup by himself. While H&L might not be everyone's cup of tea (including some of his fans), I am really glad this is the style of program he decided to explore in this very season. The different performance style that he has learnt to portray in this program will only add more richness to whatever type of program he plans to do in the Olympic season.

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Oh, thanks. That's just my fancam obssession that I can't keep for myself.

If already at 4CC we have fancams being uploaded even almost 15 days after the event started I wonder just how many we will have during Olympics. Probably every angle available and I'm not complaining. Japanese audience is one of my favourite skating crowds but the policy of no-fancams during NHK and other competitions that take place there are a pain, although I understand that Japan is usually strict with broadcasting rights.

Olympics will be fancam paradise.

Thanks Lambari for sharing all the fancams you discovered. I share the exact obsession as you do too I'm hoping at Helsinki the staff won't be too strict on the video policy (just like at Skate Canada the staff basically ignored the camera policy as long as we were disrupting other audience)

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ETA: Oh and regarding TSL, don't even bother clicking on their videos (if you wanted to give them a dislike or something like that). They earn money from the ads that were played before the video loads.
Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I never thought they were sincere in anyway when suddenly one day they just showed up holding the Pooh and gushing "Pooh this Pooh that". And all the Yuzu hashtags on the twitter to promote their own videos. It is not to say Yuzu should be immuned from any criticism. However, I would not invest my time or emotions to get hung up on some "experts" that can't even count properly #is zero the new hundred?#

 

[unico]

@Lys, dasani, gladiolusc, thank you : I agree, I'm always coming back to the fancams! I'm so thankful to everyone who has provided footage.

Yeah, the falls can really blemish a program like this one. It's such a monumentally challenging program disguised by how incredibly gentle it can be, it's a fascinating dichotomy. I think SEIMEI & H&L are two brilliantly different programs, the way I see it is almost like, SEIMEI is emotionally strong in such a straight-forward and undeniable way, you feel like you never doubt SEIMEI, but H&L is emotionally vulnerable, H&L needs you to allow it in so it can take you somewhere. Something like that. I really love the first half of the GPF version but the official camerawork was so disappointing.

About the 'underwhelming Olympic Champion' comment from TSL, I believe that was just right after Sochi after the anti-climatic men's event or during 2014-2015 when external factors didn't let him have a succesful season, I'm not sure. Which doesn't make it any less uncalled for though. I remember it was half understandable giving the context but other things they've said certainly not, some of them were posted as examples in this thread.

If anything, that statement right now couldn't be more innapropriate since, without citing any names, we've had some truly underwhelming Olympic champions before, giving their previous accomplishments before the games and/or their contribuition after they've won it. And I'm not condeming any of it, Olympics is based on who can get it done at that exact moment, I'm just talking about the general sentiment. Even if Yuzuru's skating isn't of someone's liking, it's easy to recognize how much he has given to the sport and certainly the audience he brings to it, which outweights any other skater at the moment. Olympics are usually where the 'stars' are made if I'm allowed to say something cheesy, but Yuzuru's accolade since them shows that Sochi wasn't his peak since his overall improvement in skating quality since 2014 is astounding.

Yeah I believe "underwhelming Olympic Champion" was in the 2014/15 season when he was suffering injury after injury after surgery after injury, etc. As if Olympic Champions should always be held to some super high standard and never be allowed to struggle or have to match your tastes. This is why so many Olympic Champions quit after the win to "go out on a high" (let alone compete a full season after the Olympics! he was the only one who has in a long time), but I found all his struggles to be (while unfortunate), so admirable in the challenge to never stop improving himself, to be hurt and fall and rise again.