Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season | Page 910 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

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Since we were talking about 4A, I just thought to post Max Aaron's attempt and Tom Z's thought on it - thought it might be interesting

https://twitter.com/CoachTomZ/status/786729396145049600 --> it is quite underrotated though, right? I'm not very good at telling

https://coachtomz.com/quadruple-axel-4a-possible-heres/

It would be absolutely amazing if Yuzuru could do it, I don't think he has really practiced it though? When Brian talked about it he was referring to Yuzuru's attempt from that gala from a while ago right?

I used to be quite sceptical about anyone really managing to do it if I'm honest, I mean 4,5 is a lot of rotations (I don't think quints will be possible). Seeing Max has made me more optimistic though. And I used to be more sceptical as well cause... well no one seemed to be even close to doing it even with the huge points incentive. While with the other quads people have been close for a while, before they were ratified or done cleanly in competition. Though I guess it might have to do more with the difficulty of the technique of Axels than with the rotation perhaps?
 
My only fear is : once Yuzu trains 4A seriously, will he still be as consistent with his 3A ? Because that would be a shame...
 
xeyra said:
But then we wonder... would any of this progress in men's FS have happened if NHK/GPF 2015 hadn't happened, Boyang notwithstanding?
Click to expand...

The progress is about BV, not about GOE and PCS. But it doesn't surprise me at all, since BV is pure maths and you can count on it. Meanwhile GOE and PCS sometimes doesn't have any logic or just common sense.

Altie said:
My only fear is : once Yuzu trains 4A seriously, will he still be as consistent with his 3A ? Because that would be a shame...
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same. He can't afford losing 3A the way it happens with 3Lz. 4A is not worth it.
 
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NordEsque said:
Since we were talking about 4A, I just thought to post Max Aaron's attempt and Tom Z's thought on it - thought it might be interesting

https://twitter.com/CoachTomZ/status/786729396145049600 --> it is quite underrotated though, right? I'm not very good at telling

https://coachtomz.com/quadruple-axel-4a-possible-heres/

It would be absolutely amazing if Yuzuru could do it, I don't think he has really practiced it though? When Brian talked about it he was referring to Yuzuru's attempt from that gala from a while ago right?

I used to be quite sceptical about anyone really managing to do it if I'm honest, I mean 4,5 is a lot of rotations (I don't think quints will be possible). Seeing Max has made me more optimistic though. And I used to be more sceptical as well cause... well no one seemed to be even close to doing it even with the huge points incentive. While with the other quads people have been close for a while, before they were ratified or done cleanly in competition. Though I guess it might have to do more with the difficulty of the technique of Axels than with the rotation perhaps?
Click to expand...

I would downgrade this one actually, or at the very least give <. He actually look like he landed forward and rotate the rest on the ice. Anyway, the difference of 4Lz and 4A is only 1.4 pts, it is not worth it considering the injury risk and the fall/failure risk. I would assume if it is landed it would only be for the sake of landing it and be written in the history book. I highly doubt it would ever be a strategic choice in a layout to win, unless they reevaluate the BV of 4A. ;)
 
mcq said:
I would downgrade this one actually, or at the very least give <. He actually look like he landed forward and rotate the rest on the ice. Anyway, the difference of 4Lz and 4A is only 1.4 pts, it is not worth it considering the injury risk and the fall/failure risk. I would assume if it is landed it would only be for the sake of landing it and be written in the history book. I highly doubt it would ever be a strategic choice in a layout to win, unless they reevaluate the BV of 4A. ;)
Click to expand...

wouldn't the GOE be more valuable on a 4A than on a 4Lz, though (biggest factor) ?
 
Altie said:
wouldn't the GOE be more valuable on a 4A than on a 4Lz, though (biggest factor) ?
Click to expand...

Lol how would you do steps and funny entrance into a 4A though? It would already be difficult to get +2. Not mentioning the success rate would be abysmal.
 
mcq said:
Lol how would you do steps and funny entrance into a 4A though? It would already be difficult to get +2. Not mentioning the success rate would be abysmal.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was a good idea :)
That's why I said earlier I was worried about his 3A if he trained seriously the 4 A, because his 3A is one of the most beautiful things in the world :)
 
Altie said:
I didn't say it was a good idea :)
That's why I said earlier I was worried about his 3A if he trained seriously the 4 A, because his 3A is one of the most beautiful things in the world :)
Click to expand...

His 4Lo, 4S and 4T did not affect his 3Lo, 3S and 3T though. Arguably, I would also say had he do his 3Lz not as the last jump, he would not have had so much trouble with it post-sochi. :)
 
mcq said:
Lol how would you do steps and funny entrance into a 4A though? It would already be difficult to get +2. Not mentioning the success rate would be abysmal.
Click to expand...

So it will be nearly impossible to get positive GOE for 4A. 4Lo with +3 gives you the same points then. Or 4Lz with +1,4.
 
Floria said:
So it will be nearly impossible to get positive GOE for 4A. 4Lo with +3 gives you the same points then. Or 4Lz with +1,4.
Click to expand...

No, he can get the matching to the music and good height and distance point. Maybe with creative exit and effortless throughout/good flow he can get +2. But +3 is really hard to get without steps and entrance because the delayed rotation/variation in air position would be impossible for 4A. :biggrin:
 
mcq said:
His 4Lo, 4S and 4T did not affect his 3Lo, 3S and 3T though. Arguably, I would also say had he do his 3Lz not as the last jump, he would not have had so much trouble with it post-sochi. :)
Click to expand...

Floria said:
So it will be nearly impossible to get positive GOE for 4A. 4Lo with +3 gives you the same points then. Or 4Lz with +1,4.
Click to expand...

Perhaps he already lands the 4A but doesn't plan to include it (yet) because it doesn't have the "quality" he is adamant to put in his jumps, then... :)

Now I really want to see that 4Lz. The quads don't look as beautiful on other skaters than they do with him.
 
mcq said:
His 4Lo, 4S and 4T did not affect his 3Lo, 3S and 3T though. Arguably, I would also say had he do his 3Lz not as the last jump, he would not have had so much trouble with it post-sochi. :)
Click to expand...

I remember reading an interview with Maria Sotskova sometime ago and she was talking about quads and how difficult it was to switch back to triples once you start training quads.
But yes, it seems that Yuzuru don't have any problem with triples. It is just we are worried too much about his 3A :)

Source (in russian)
 
You are under-estimating the current system and how iffy it is. The second someone, hopefully Yuzuru, lands the Big Impossible that is the 4A? And if that someone is a "name" already? And if it just has good flow? Those GOEs will be dropping from the sky like Rudolph and elves are hopped up on some laced weed and are zig zagging across the sky causing candies to rain down on the anointed skater.
And then this will up the overall impression and the whole score. Just look at the fainting over 5 quads and how arguably little talk Yuzuru's 4 quads created.

BTW, I don't think his 3A would be negatively affected by the 4A at all.
 
Altie said:
Perhaps he already lands the 4A but doesn't plan to include it (yet) because it doesn't have the "quality" he is adamant to put in his jumps, then... :)

Now I really want to see that 4Lz. The quads don't look as beautiful on other skaters than they do with him.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see it too. :biggrin: But now no point in talking about 4Lz and 4A when his 4Lo is still not its top quality/consistency yet in competition. There is also that jump-who-must-not-be-named that he need to work on. So save the 4Lz for at least after worlds and 4A for after oly for the very least ;)

Yatagarasu said:
You are under-estimating the current system and how iffy it is. The second someone, hopefully Yuzuru, lands the Big Impossible that is the 4A? And if that someone is a "name" already? And if it just has good flow? Those GOEs will be dropping from the sky like Rudolph and elves are hopped up on some laced weed and are zig zagging across the sky causing candies to rain down on the anointed skater.
And then this will up the overall impression and the whole score. Just look at the fainting over 5 quads and how arguably little talk Yuzuru's 4 quads created.

BTW, I don't think his 3A would be negatively affected by the 4A at all.
Click to expand...

I did not disagree. It was like that for Boyang's 4Lz (it receives over +2) but it was a one time thing and it normalize since then (receive about +1 on average). The reality is for now, without steps and entrance, it is very difficult to get +3, but +2 is very fair and doable with good flow and good landing without entrance (4a would have good height and distance i mean come on it is a +1 by default once landed)
 
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