Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[alia jackson]

Yuzu's previous FP WR was 219.48, new one is 223.20. Only 3.72 point different with added 4lo. His SP WR 110.95.

I am thinking with the way the judges scored Yuzu compared to Shoma and Javi at Worlds..
(1) Javi with clean SP but travelling spin and slip received 109.05. If he were to skate like Boston FP, I think judges will award him 223.50 WR (is this possible with his BV?) and total WR.
(2) If Yuzu was to wobble slightly on only one of his FP landing, I think the judges will penalise him and award the gold to Shoma (assuming Javi skated like he did).

The possibility of the above scenarios is where that underscored GOEs would make the difference

this is going to be my happy place for a very long time :luv17:

He was looking right at you kid :agree:

 

[Danibellerika]

Someone is comparing his GOE at GPF 2015 and WC 2017
4S https://twitter.com/joyneco/status/851144664262426624
4T https://twitter.com/joyneco/status/851145751635742720
3A2T https://twitter.com/joyneco/status/851146504119099392
3A1lo3s https://twitter.com/joyneco/status/851148066342060032

I'm really trying not to be salty but http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/103/149/50e.jpg

Plus add that since Boston momentum was gone from him, that is why they underscored him, with this win he got it. I believe it was the most important of all his wins, he needed this gold medal as an oxigen, for his self confidence.

Well Brian himself said that Yuzu needed this. I think on some level we could all sense that he needed this.

If skated last more benefit for a skater to get huge +GOE.. I hope yuzu would be the last skater ..especially in the major events like worlds and Olympic.. If he is really ON, the judges can't hold him down..

As long as whatever Yuzu could do would secure a win. Even though he was lowballed, I think starting order HELPED him here. I don't know if he would have won if Javi skated even "okay" due to skating earlier based on all the candies he got. I mean, he still over 300 with his efforts here. I don't dislike Javi (I was happy to see him have the skate of his life in Boston), but I'm trying to think of who else could get over 300 with that content and execution. I dunno, the SP just seems so crucial.

 

[nihil]

this is going to be my happy place for a very long time :luv17:

:2thumbs:

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

GOE is subjective though.

Yuzu's previous FP WR was 219.48, new one is 223.20. Only 3.72 point different with added 4lo. His SP WR 110.95.

I am thinking with the way the judges scored Yuzu compared to Shoma and Javi at Worlds..
(1) Javi with clean SP but travelling spin and slip received 109.05. If he were to skate like Boston FP, I think judges will award him 223.50 WR (is this possible with his BV?) and total WR.
(2) If Yuzu was to wobble slightly on only one of his FP landing, I think the judges will penalise him and award the gold to Shoma (assuming Javi skated like he did).

The possibility of the above scenarios is where that underscored GOEs would make the difference

I also think that even with this season's track record, if he had skated to Seimei, the GOEs would have been higher. Judges are subjective, and their overall GOEs may be less high if they're not too enthusiastic about the program itself. H&L probably wasn't very popular among them, thus they weren't in a disposition to throw GOEs at him

 

[Floria]

As long as whatever Yuzu could do would secure a win. Even though he was lowballed, I think starting order HELPED him here. I don't know if he would have won if Javi skated even "okay" due to skating earlier based on all the candies he got. I mean, he still over 300 with his efforts here. I don't dislike Javi (I was happy to see him have the skate of his life in Boston), but I'm trying to think of who else could get over 300 with that content and execution. I dunno, the SP just seems so crucial.

I believe skating first this time really helped him. He had nothing to lose and he skated the best he could. He wasn't thinking about the other's scores. And his WR affected in negative way some of his rivals :dev3: (at least Javi recognized it).

 

[mcq]

I also think that even with this season's track record, if he had skated to Seimei, the GOEs would have been higher. Judges are subjective, and their overall GOEs may be less high if they're not too enthusiastic about the program itself. H&L probably wasn't very popular among them, thus they weren't in a disposition to throw GOEs at him

I doubt it. He actually received HIGH goe (and PCS) from 5-6 judges at worlds (3-4 judges gave over 25+ pts in GOE in fact, others are 22-23), despite Yuzuru skating early too. YET, the GOE he received from SPN, CAN, CHN judge were just 19 pts. It did not matter what he was going to skate to, these 3 judges have a skater they need to push up so they HAVE to hold him down to give their skaters a chance to medal/win. And there was no JPN judge to prep up his score to "balance" things out. So it is in a way kind of unfair to other judges who judged more "correctly" because these judges with conflict of interest were the one who held him down and made it look like the entire judging panel are against him.

If you think this is bad, imagine what it would be like with a US judge in the mix. A mix of SPN, CAN, CHN and US judge would maybe hold down his score even more than what we saw at worlds.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

I doubt it. He actually received HIGH goe (and PCS) from 5-6 judges at worlds (3-4 judges gave over 25+ pts in GOE in fact, others are 22-23), despite Yuzuru skating early too. YET, the GOE he received from SPN, CAN, CHN judge were just 19 pts. It did not matter what he was going to skate to, these 3 judges have a skater they need to push up so they HAVE to hold him down to give their skaters a chance to medal/win. And there was no JPN judge to prep up his score to "balance" things out. So it is in a way kind of unfair to other judges who judged more "correctly" because these judges with conflict of interest were the one who held him down and made it look like the entire judging panel are against him.

If you think this is bad, imagine what it would be like with a US judge in the mix. A mix of SPN, CAN, CHN and US judge would maybe hold down his score even more than what we saw at worlds.

Ah I see thank you for the detail. It seems a bit unjust that there were no US and JPN judge to even things out, considering everybody knows, the judges will prop up their skaters and hold down the rivals

Edit : sorry for the quote mess

 

[Floria]

I doubt it. He actually received HIGH goe (and PCS) from 5-6 judges at worlds (3-4 judges gave over 25+ pts in GOE in fact, others are 22-23), despite Yuzuru skating early too. YET, the GOE he received from SPN, CAN, CHN judge were just 19 pts. It did not matter what he was going to skate to, these 3 judges have a skater they need to push up so they HAVE to hold him down to give their skaters a chance to medal/win. And there was no JPN judge to prep up his score to "balance" things out. So it is in a way kind of unfair to other judges who judged more "correctly" because these judges with conflict of interest were the one who held him down and made it look like the entire judging panel are against him.

If you think this is bad, imagine what it would be like with a US judge in the mix. A mix of SPN, CAN, CHN and US judge would maybe hold down his score even more than what we saw at worlds.

Then it is a little bit unfair how the judging panel is selected. Three skaters from the last group had a judge from their country, meanwhile the other three didn't. The judges are supposed to be impartial of course, but the reality is different.
Yes, with US judge the things could have gone much worse

 

[Danibellerika]

Then it is a little bit unfair how the judging panel is selected. Three skaters from the last group had a judge from their country, meanwhile the other three didn't. The judges are supposed to be impartial of course, but the reality is different.
Yes, with US judge the things could have gone much worse

Not if *I* were a judge . I would give him all the candies he deserved. Objectively when Yuzu jumps well he is the best.

 

[sallycinnamon]

Then it is a little bit unfair how the judging panel is selected. Three skaters from the last group had a judge from their country, meanwhile the other three didn't. The judges are supposed to be impartial of course, but the reality is different.
Yes, with US judge the things could have gone much worse

With an US judge Shoma might have won the gold medal...

 

[mcq]

Then it is a little bit unfair how the judging panel is selected. Three skaters from the last group had a judge from their country, meanwhile the other three didn't. The judges are supposed to be impartial of course, but the reality is different.
Yes, with US judge the things could have gone much worse

Which is why cross all your fingers and toe that the draw for the judging panel would be beneficial for Yuzuru

Anyway, from my observation, it is not nationality only, sometimes taste play a part too. I remembered a CAN/US/SPN judges who gave Yuzu reaaaaallly high mark at some other competitions (was it NHK/GPF/4CC? don't remember). ISR judge adore him here at worlds but I saw other ISR judge who despised him at other competition (same with AUS and CHN judge, some love him some detested him). KOR judge generally like him (surprisingly), most RUS judge too. For other nations, I don't really pay attention because they don't have top skaters or rarely judge to even notice a "pattern". It is luck really, getting judging panel who generally like you, so just cross your fingers and toes

 

[alia jackson]

What is the result of un-anonymous judging? Is there a review panel looking at the judges and how they scored? Is there any consequences to these judges...for example they need more training on judging, ethic class or a reprimand?

 

[Floria]

With an US judge Shoma might have won the gold medal...

:noshake: Fortunately it didn't happen.

Which is why cross all your fingers and toe that the draw for the judging panel would be beneficial for Yuzuru

Anyway, from my observation, it is not nationality only, sometimes taste play a part too. I remembered a CAN/US/SPN judges who gave Yuzu reaaaaallly high mark at some other competitions (was it NHK/GPF/4CC? don't remember). ISR judge adore him here at worlds but I saw other ISR judge who despised him at other competition (same with AUS and CHN judge, some love him some detested him). KOR judge generally like him (surprisingly), most RUS judge too. For other nations, I don't really pay attention because they don't have top skaters or rarely judge to even notice a "pattern". It is luck really, getting judging panel who generally like you, so just cross your fingers and toes

It seems that CAN/SPN/US judges like him when there is no Chan/Javi/Chen around .
Hoping for lucky judging panel for Olympics...

 

[Danibellerika]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSstTTIBOdc/

Did someone post that already? I'm . He would introduce himself and his first comment would be about the hair. I guess better than than the obvious emphasis on his prominent crotch area, ROFL. We can't miss it, so I don't know how he can.

 

[mcq]

What is the result of un-anonymous judging? Is there a review panel looking at the judges and how they scored? And training these judges or reprimanded them?

From what I know, after the competition there is always a meeting between ISU/judging and technical panel, to review if there is any unjust deviation of score that does not follow what the general perception is (even before un-anonymous judging). They were supposed to justify why they gave such scores though (again from what I know), and they were supposed to be reprimanded and/or sanctioned when there are "findings". But it is ISU, so, LOL.

However, I see that it actually might take effect in some competitions. If you remember, there is this AUS judge who gave Yuzuru 7 and 8 on PCS during Autumn Classic SP this season (even lower PCS than skaters like Keegan messing, for example). But then she change it to 8 and 9 in the FS (probably get reprimanded and scolded by other judges after the SP). There is also this one judge who got banned from judging (for a period of time, I guess, not forever) because he talked to other judges during competition, recently.

Other famous ones would be how they changed the score after they released it in Ice dance. Was it during Europeans? Capellini/Lanotte was doing illegal elements or something, I don't know, don't follow dance that close, but it was a RUCKUS back then.

 

[beki]

Yesterday I was on a cross-country flight with satellite TV. NBC was showing Worlds, and for the men's free they only showed Yuzu, Nathan, Shoma and Javi (poor Boyang was overlooked, and also Jason and Patrick). Rewatching, Shoma's score stood out the most. He had a lot of wonky landings. Looks to me like the judges might put a clean Shoma above a clean Yuzu?!

I wonder if Brian is really so sanguine that Yuzu and Javi don't need to increase their base value, or if that's his public face.

 

[xibsuarz]

Yuzu's previous FP WR was 219.48, new one is 223.20. Only 3.72 point different with added 4lo. His SP WR 110.95.

I am thinking with the way the judges scored Yuzu compared to Shoma and Javi at Worlds..
(1) Javi with clean SP but travelling spin and slip received 109.05. If he were to skate like Boston FP, I think judges will award him 223.50 WR (is this possible with his BV?) and total WR.
:

Highly doubtful. Yuzuru's absolutely perfect score with last season's BV was 225 and change. And that was with 100 PCS and perfect GOE on every element (which won't happen atm, the system has never awarded anything like that). And his BV was still higher than Javier's.
I know many of you are upset about the scoring , but this season is over and Yuzu came out on top and although the field is deep and wild, he is still perceived as the one with the best chance for the OGM. We have to wait and see what the judges make of it next season

 

[alia jackson]

Thanks mcq. Do you by any chance know where we can usually find the names and nationalities of judges vs their # on protocol?

Highly doubtful. Yuzuru's absolutely perfect score with last season's BV was 225 and change. And that was with 100 PCS and perfect GOE on every element (which won't happen atm, the system has never awarded anything like that). And his BV was still higher than Javier's.

Thanks Xib, you mean Yuzu BV last season is higher than Javi BV this season is it?

 

[mcq]

Yesterday I was on a cross-country flight with satellite TV. NBC was showing Worlds, and for the men's free they only showed Yuzu, Nathan, Shoma and Javi (poor Boyang was overlooked, and also Jason and Patrick). Rewatching, Shoma's score stood out the most. He had a lot of wonky landings. Looks to me like the judges might put a clean Shoma above a clean Yuzu?!

I wonder if Brian is really so sanguine that Yuzu and Javi don't need to increase their base value, or if that's his public face.

Lol nope. I think he genuinely and sincerely believe a clean Yuzuru would still win and a clean Javi would still medal at OG no matter what. It is not just public face, imo. Again, both of them were not "clean" here, so he expected more score when they are actually clean, foot-perfect back-to-back. He seems to believe it is more important to be consistent and clean rather than do all the quads in the oly season and splat all over.

Thanks mcq. Do you by any chance know where we can usually find the names and nationalities of judges vs their # on protocol?

this is the panel for SP
this is the panel for FS. You can find their nationality on ISU website, I think? I remember someone listed it here.

 

[gladiolusc]

Thanks mcq. Do you by any chance know where we can usually find the names and nationalities of judges vs their # on protocol?

They no longer show nationality on the judges list but it's on the same isuresults.com page for each event where they link to starting order and protocols.