Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Camillo]

We all know he has a really hot inner fire and intensity that people respond to easily, so how is it bad to hope his next program will showcase not only his skills, but more of that same emotion at the same time? We have now seen the controlled and serene yuzuru, and it was sublime, but now let's see another side of yuzuru.

Umm, but we saw that hot and intensive side of Yuzu in his Prince SP, didn't we?

 

[narcissa]

Didn't someone ask about Japan Opopenenenenennnnnn just now? I came across this recently...

Relevance to this thread: the paper has Yuzu's name on it. "Hanyu, the first ever quadruple loop; Uno, the more difficult quadruple flip!" that's the basic tone for certain newspaper articles for like more than a year now. No comment.

I don't even...

ETA: honestly this makes Shoma's jump looks super unflattering. I mean, it looks like he didn't even cover the distance of the words... Actually, he takes off (forward!) at the n, and lands before the O, so one word...

Totally off topic but why do newspapers always pick the most horrible pictures of Yuzuru, normally when he's mid-jump? Like they're not flattering at all and make him look like a troll or something. If you want a motion shot for your article please put on a photo from the back and then perhaps add a nicer photo in the article.

I know, right? Of all the earth shatteringly gorgeous photos of him out there

 

[Fayruza]

Didn't someone ask about Japan Opopenenenenennnnnn just now? I came across this recently...

Relevance to this thread: the paper has Yuzu's name on it. "Hanyu, the first ever quadruple loop; Uno, the more difficult quadruple flip!" that's the basic tone for certain newspaper articles for like more than a year now. No comment.

Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. That's an eye-opener indeed.

 

[xeyra]

Umm, but we saw that hot and intensive side of Yuzu in his Prince SP, didn't we?

Heck, he was so intense at Worlds he finished his step sequence with time to spare to the point he had to wait to go into his last spin! Sure, GPF is still my favorite LGC performance because I'm sure the other three times he performed it, he was frustrated during the rest of the program by his jump mistakes, but I don't think his inner fire was lacking in any of them, especially all those times he got 2.10 GOE on his step sequence by the judges. It was 4 times this season, by the way!

I feel like LGC expressed his fire and rockstar attitude perfectly well, and H&L his more subtle side, where the music guided the performance, more than the skater himself, which is why I think it needed to be clean for people to fall under its spell. Could he improve on his expression for H&L? Yes, of course, he himself believes so, so I'm not going to disagree with the man himself. And do I want him to go on a more 'bombastic' FS for next season? Yes, because it'll be another side of his versatility, it'll be a nice balance to this season, and it'll go better with judges and commentators, and I'd rather not have to hear any more people claim he's a cold performer.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I believe the answer is that we're all out somewhere having a drink so we're tipsy and we're seeing double. Er, triple. No, quadruple? Oh hold on ... undecuple! <--that's a legit word btw, neat, right?

Geez, now I can be drunk without realizing it myself. Do I need to get my life together or what?

whole post

:thumbsup:
And to repeat again, I'm not having any problem with Akiko wanting more emotion, or maybe not liking the program, or whatever. What I don't like are comments thrown in like "it will be more difficult for him to upgrade technically than for Shoma or Nathan" or "Shoma and Nathan aren't far off skating wise" that are IMO simply... wrong. And no, with the way Yuzu's season went, his upgrading compared to last, with what we know he does in practices, that first part is not 'her opinion', it is simply put a claim without any ground. One that his making him look 'weaker' than he is. And as was mentioned before, these kind of comments slowly but consistently influence the view of a lot of people, sometimes up until the general crowd. Or why exactly do people think newspapers do stupid stuff like editing Shomas jumps bigger? Because they have bored interns with too much time? And if it wouldn't be a repeatedly happening thing but the first article of it's kind, maybe people wouldn't react like that to Akikos article either.

Edit: because I can't English

 

[narcissa]

Heck, he was so intense at Worlds he finished his step sequence with time to spare to the point he had to wait to go into his last spin! Sure, GPF is still my favorite LGC performance because I'm sure the other three times he performed it, he was frustrated during the rest of the program by his jump mistakes, but I don't think his inner fire was lacking in any of them, especially all those times he got 2.10 GOE on his step sequence by the judges. It was 4 times this season, by the way!

I feel like LGC expressed his fire and rockstar attitude perfectly well, and H&L his more subtle side, where the music guided the performance, more than the skater himself, which is why I think it needed to be clean for people to fall under its spell. Could he improve on his expression for H&L? Yes, of course, he himself believes so, so I'm not going to disagree with the man himself. And do I want him to go on a more 'bombastic' FS for next season? Yes, because it'll be another side of his versatility, it'll be a nice balance to this season, and it'll go better with judges and commentators, and I'd rather not have to hear any more people claim he's a cold performer.

You know, I've noticed that since H&L is a completely different program than Seimei, people are all like "Boo, it's not Seimei!" And then Javi goes and skates an almost exact replica of his fabulous program last year and people are like "Boo, it's the same as last year, he has no versatility!" Some people just love to hate, really. Oh, and it's kind of :think: to think about the people criticizing how he became a colder performer this year, because most of them seem to conveniently forget about his short program. I guess he just lost all of his performance ability in between the short and the long at every competition?

 

[beki]

In terms of "the more difficult 4F," when I was transcribing Kurt's commentary, when he referred to it one time during Yuzu's skate he sounded garbled. I couldn't tell if he said quadruple or triple. It sounded like truple. I probably shouldn't bring it up :dev2: It's hard for me to imagine Kurt throwing shade, so I assume he misspoke.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Have I said that I thought I was right and they were wrong ??? Thanks for twisting my words :shocked:

Not my style to twist words, thanks. I was connecting my first sentence with this part of your post

Some people just assume the worse is always the truth, or just love drama, Idk. Even japanese. In western countries fans are very quick to misinterpret ords taken out of context without reading the sources, I don't see why japanese fans would be different, even if they are more calm and polite than others.

In other words, from the top, no, I don't see anything as twisted therefore no, I don't see those Japanese fans who have reacted as those who "love drama" or are misinterpreting what they have read. Therefore, again, I don't see a problem with them expressing their dissatisfaction with this because to them it is not about "loving drama" but not agreeing with what they have read.

Oh I am obviously talking about the Japanese fans who have reacted to this, not the whole fandom. And I have written that, several times.

But in this particular case I don't see it.

As I said, we'll agree to disagree. That is no problem at all.

 

[shiroKJ]

To be fair, a lot of what is said/published is filtered/not posted for us here so it might sound dubious (tin foil hat-ish?) when these things do pop up. If we were truly up to date on everything that's being said, we'd be at 10,000 pages by now with all the :hpull: things that go on...

 

[marlet]

Probably, photos of Shoma's quads frame by frame at Sponichi and other sources. Editors make it huuuge almost like Yuzu's jumps. But when you look closely at the ladies in the public being duplicated again and again you understand the real distance of that 4F.

http://i.imgur.com/rXrrxGW.jpg

Ohhh this photoshop is so hilarious, they could have made a better effort, can't stop laughing

 

[riminin]

I read the translation. Although there's no apparent mistranslation the English text sounds much more positive and complementary to Yuzu by putting extra adjectives and stronger expressions. Idk the translator thought it might sound more natural for English readers this way but I would have stuck to original sentences more strictly because it's sensitive and controversial. But remember it's an interview edited by a writer. So I wouldn't dwell too much on her exact wording. Japanese fans were mostly annoyed by her demand to "put more emotion" into H&L as they (me included) deem it totally unnecessary.

 

[xeyra]

I read the translation. Although there's no apparent mistranslation the English text sounds much more positive and complementary to Yuzu by putting extra adjectives and stronger expressions. Idk the translator thought it might sound more natural for English readers this way but I would have stuck to original sentences more strictly because it's sensitive and controversial. But remember it's an interview edited by a writer. So I wouldn't dwell too much on her exact wording. Japanese fans were mostly annoyed by her demand to "put more emotion" into H&L as they (me included) deem it totally unnecessary.

This is also a very important point. Reminds me of that article recently with Patrick Chan's thoughts on the new generation of quadsters, where he makes some comments and the writer fills in with a narrative that goes where he wants it to go.

 

[unico]

I'm not sure I agree completely with the translation posted before (I think it omitted a paragraph even), I'll try to take a stab at a very straightforward translation for just the parts about "more emotional". Maybe this will clear up some confusion:


　３種類の４回転ジャンプ（トーループ、サルコウ、ループ）がきっちり入るプログラムをノーミスで滑ることができれば、羽生選手は別格です。さらに何かを求めるとするならば、もっと感情を入れること。今回、パーフェクトな演技をした世界選手権でのフリーでも、ジャンプ以外をもっとエモーショナルにできるのではないかと思います。

To put three different kinds of quads (toe-loop, salchow, loop) firmly within a program and make no mistakes, to be able to do that, Hanyu is extraordinary. If I were to wish for something more, it's to put more emotions. This time, even though it was a perfect performance at the World Championships freeskate, outside of the jumps, I think he could do it more emotionally.

　これだけの４回転を入れることの難しさは理解しています。今回の世界選手権の演技もスタンディングオベーションをしたくなる、すばらしいものでした。しかし、もっともっと感情の入った羽生結弦を見たい。ジャンプの技術に表現者としてのエモーショナルな部分を加えてくれることを期待しています。

I understand/sympathize with the difficulty in including all these different quads. This World Championships performance is one that I also want to give a standing ovation too, it was truly wonderful. However, I want to see a Hanyu that put in more and more emotions. Adding his jump techniques with the emotional aspects as an expressive performer is something I anticipate/look forward to seeing.

 

[marlet]

They didn't even trying to cover up the changes also the entry is fascinating me

I read many beautiful words about H&L today (here and on tumblr) so I went over my pic collection and these photos reminded me how much I love this costume. I feel sorry for the person/people who apllied all the bling

Edit: this one too is great

I love yuzu all costumes, but from the time I first learn and knew who yuzu was, the one costume that impress me the most is Etude:luv17: is so beautiful, only yuzu could wear that and look amazing, that's my favourite costume of all time, I want him to wear something similar again and for my luck he got his H&L costume and I felt nostalgic and happy hehe

 

[Altie]

:thumbsup:
And to repeat again, I'm not having any problem with Akiko wanting more emotion, or maybe not liking the program, or whatever. What I don't like are comments thrown in like "it will be more difficult for him to upgrade technically than for Shoma or Nathan" or "Shoma and Nathan aren't far off skating wise" that is IMO simply... wrong. And no, with the way Yuzu's season went, his upgrading compared to last, with what we know he does in practices, that first part is not 'her opinion', it is simply put a claim without any ground. One that his making him look 'weaker' than he is. And as was mentioned before, these kind of comments slowly but consistently influence the few of a lot of people, sometimes up until the general crowd. Or why exactly to people think newspaper do stupid stuff like editing Shomas jumps bigger? Because they have bored interns with too much time? And if it wouldn't be a repeatedly happening thing but the first article of it's kind, maybe people wouldn't react like that to Akikos article either.

Well, what she said exactly was that Nathan and Shoma weren't far off PC wise, which is not wrong, and I understand her concern here.
As for upgrading the technical difficulty, well... Yuzu has stated several times on TV that he won't put the 4Lz in his program next year, that it wasn't ready. So I can understand where she comes from (even if I don't agree).

Does this article really paint Yuzu as weak ? That's not the impression I got, but I can see your point. For me there's a lot of praises in it. It's only expressing concern that his dominance will be harder to maintain next year... And, well, seeing how close Shoma's scores were from Yuzu's this year, I tend to agree.
And she wants more emotions. And why not ?

As for Shoma's photoshopped jumps... well it's both funny and scary :eekn:.
But... it's totally unrelated to Akiko's article, or am I missing something ?

 

[Yatagarasu]

And to repeat again, I'm not having any problem with Akiko wanting more emotion, or maybe not liking the program, or whatever. What I don't like are comments thrown in like "it will be more difficult for him to upgrade technically than for Shoma or Nathan" or "Shoma and Nathan aren't far off skating wise" that are IMO simply... wrong. And no, with the way Yuzu's season went, his upgrading compared to last, with what we know he does in practices, that first part is not 'her opinion', it is simply put a claim without any ground. One that his making him look 'weaker' than he is. And as was mentioned before, these kind of comments slowly but consistently influence the view of a lot of people, sometimes up until the general crowd. Or why exactly do people think newspapers do stupid stuff like editing Shomas jumps bigger? Because they have bored interns with too much time? And if it wouldn't be a repeatedly happening thing but the first article of it's kind, maybe people wouldn't react like that to Akikos article either.

Literally all of this.

And there have been "mistakes" even post-WTT, only corrected thanks to Japanese fans, but we just don't bring it here as it's not pretty. When all of this is put together, you get a really unpleasant picture that has consequences.

 

[Camillo]

And why would Akiko mention another skaters 'cheated jumps' or weaknesses at all?

Oh, but she mentioned those skaters and they are somewhat in better position than Yuzu according to the article
"...these other skaters started arming themselves with weapons Yuzuru doesn’t yet have".

"This will, in turn, heighten the resolve of skaters still in their teens like Shoma and Nathan to include even more technical content. Going by age, it would be tougher for Yuzuru to follow the same route."

"What’s scary about Shoma and Nathan is that they are not entirely outdone by Yuzuru in terms of PCS. They aren’t exactly slacking in the skating department either. "

 

[xeyra]

I'm not sure I agree completely with the translation posted before (I think it omitted a paragraph even), I'll try to take a stab at a very straight-forward translation for just the parts about "more emotional". Maybe this will clear up some confusion:


　３種類の４回転ジャンプ（トーループ、サルコウ、ループ）がきっちり入るプログラムをノーミスで滑ることができれば、羽生選手は別格です。さらに何かを求めるとするならば、もっと感情を入れること。今回、パーフェクトな演技をした世界選手権でのフリーでも、ジャンプ以外をもっとエモーショナルにできるのではないかと思います。

To put three different kinds of quads (toe-loop, salchow, loop) firmly within a program and make no mistakes, to be able to do that, Hanyu is extraordinary. If I were to wish for something more, it's to put more emotions. This time, even though it was a perfect performance at the World Championships freeskate, outside of the jumps, I think he could do it more emotionally.

　これだけの４回転を入れることの難しさは理解しています。今回の世界選手権の演技もスタンディングオベーションをしたくなる、すばらしいものでした。しかし、もっともっと感情の入った羽生結弦を見たい。ジャンプの技術に表現者としてのエモーショナルな部分を加えてくれることを期待しています。

I understand/sympathize with the difficulty in including all these different quads. This World Championships performance is one that I also want to give a standing ovation too, it was truly wonderful. However, I want to see a Hanyu that put in more and more emotions. Adding his jump techniques with the emotional aspects as an expressive performer is something I anticipate/look forward to seeing.

I do feel like Akiko is maybe a bit contradictory in a way because she did say earlier the Worlds FS was the best she'd ever seen. Except maybe not.

Anyways, I do know her sentiments are actually shared by others; I've seen some commentators express that same thing, that Yuzu seemed more focused and less engaged in the performance, even if I may not personally agree with it.

I read a comment on twitter that I think explains the divide on H&L. I'm not sure if I'm recalling it correctly but it sort of said H&L is the kind of program that is more understood by those who are already emotionally invested in Yuzu and his skating, because it's not a program that forcibly tells you to pay attention to it and LIKE IT, GODDAMN, like Seimei or RJ1 did. It's instead a more subtle, calm program, that the common denominator might find more boring or un-engaging.

 

[begin]

Oh, but she mentioned those skaters and they are somewhat in better position than Yuzu according to the article
"...these other skaters started arming themselves with weapons Yuzuru doesn’t yet have".

"This will, in turn, heighten the resolve of skaters still in their teens like Shoma and Nathan to include even more technical content. Going by age, it would be tougher for Yuzuru to follow the same route."

"What’s scary about Shoma and Nathan is that they are not entirely outdone by Yuzuru in terms of PCS. They aren’t exactly slacking in the skating department either. "

Bc she's talking about Yuzu's strategy. That's the entire premise of the article--talking about the challenges of the upcoming season. She mentioned Nathan and Shoma as possible threats to Yuzuru based on the results of this season. What's the problem here exactly? Is remarking on the reality of the situation taboo now?

 

[turquoiseblue]

Totally off topic but why do newspapers always pick the most horrible pictures of Yuzuru, normally when he's mid-jump? Like they're not flattering at all and make him look like a troll or something. If you want a motion shot for your article please put on a photo from the back and then perhaps add a nicer photo in the article.

I don't know about Japanese media, but I have asked professional photographers why they had to use those bad photos. Their answer was: "Figure skating is a hard sport. Skaters don't always show calm expressions on their faces and those faces during jumps can show people how hard the sport is."
I was like, "huh?"...