Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[itiahs]

This thread is as extra as Yuzuru sometimes but at the end of the day I know we're all united in the common goal of supporting spacepooh.
I got a little bit offended on Yuzuru's behalf this morning when I read the article too. There've been a lot of things that are unfair this season (scores, judges, scores), but even though intellectually I understand the reception to Hope & Legacy it's still unfair.

To put it this way, people say that the young quadsters are getting higher PCS & GOEs because they're challenging the harder jumps and therefore deserve them. But Yuzuru is also challenging a new jump, and also bringing new programs that demand showing new sides of himself. He's challenging the expression side as well and he's not getting the rewards for it. Fair enough, Yuzuru has his intrinsic motivators.

I think part of what Akiko is saying that if he gets the performance side even more engaged he can beat the other guys overwhelmingly, like he wants to. But yeah, I disagree about injecting "emotion" into H&L, it isn't a program that demands it. What is emotion anyways? Does ISU give a definition?

In any case I expect to be inundated with "emotional" programs next season

 

[omurice]

Words of other people DO influence our perception, actually it's a great self-deception to think our opinions are totally independent . You may find at Youtube videos of social experiments on that matter, for example Asch conformity experiment.

When trustworthy professionals keep telling "This skater is great at PCS" (even though he's not really that great) or "That skater's LP was lacking emotions" (even though it's not true), sooner or later it will become common opinion that yes, no doubt, this skater is great at PCS and that skater has problems with expressing emotions. :sarcasm:

That's true :/ I wonder how much influence this has on judges, but I guess it's impossible for them not to be exposed to public opinion at some point.

 

[lilsailor]

Just to lighten the mood, interviews post WTT with new english translations can be found here


ETA : Ah, sorry, it had already been posted.

so he does look at scores, i was always under the impression he completely isolated himself from everyone's scores, and just concentrated on his own, i don't knw how many figure skaters do that, but i know alot of the competetive gymnasts do

 

[beki]

Plus, a lot of Japanese is implication and suggestion, so things are up to interpretation.

It's fascinating to me. When we are speaking different languages, we are thinking differently as well.

I write English poetry, and I like to read poetry in translation, especially Japanese, because those residual differences help me to be more original and unexpected in my own expression. Actually, reading about Yuzuru's eloquent word choices inspires me in that same way. Learning the language would be even better... I'm thinking of trying (but it would be a long process).

 

[Meoima]

Words of other people DO influence our perception, actually it's a great self-deception to think our opinions are totally independent . You may find at Youtube videos of social experiments on that matter, for example Asch conformity experiment.

When trustworthy professionals keep telling "This skater is great at PCS" (even though he's not really that great) or "That skater's LP was lacking emotions" (even though it's not true), sooner or later it will become common opinion that yes, no doubt, this skater is great at PCS and that skater has problems with expressing emotions. :sarcasm:

Yeap. Tech specialist once told me Mao Asada never had a true 3A. Reputation matters a lot in this world.

With the great technique he has Yuzuru still has no advantage. It's funny but true.

The whole skating world is already preparing for Yuzuru to retire because they want someone new. I guess once he retires they will be happy indeed, especially Nagoya group. I will be happy with them honestly, because once Yuzuru retires, I will happily watch competions without worry.

But once Yuzuru retires, they will have to face the Russian fed and USFA and maybe even Skate Canada, these federations all have better political power. So... good luck with that.

 

[narcissa]

Once he retires, the popularity of figure skating live events will go down. One just needs to look at the events he attends versus ones he doesn't.

 

[vadrouille]

Over 1 million views https://youtu.be/yZxDCfgVfTc

What a pity that Fuji tivi blocked this video in the first 2-3 days. Or else it could have been 3 millions by now.

:luv17:

I am very lucky to see Live his programs Let's go crazy and Hope and Legacy at World in Helsinki, as I have also seen Live in Autumn Classics Montreal, in Skate Canada, in GPF Marseille. I have met many fans of Yuzuru who came from different countries in the world, especially from Japan, China, USA, Italia, France...The atmosphere at the arena in Helsinki is unbelievable. We are all crazy. My husband and I we stayed at Hotel Sokos in Pasila, where I can walked to the Hartwall Arena. Almost all rooms at the Hotel are occupied by skating fans.
I am lucky that I am an old lady and retired person, so I have more free time and liberty to travel to see Yuzuru skating.
I have to say that I will not travel like that just to see Skating, only for competitions of Yuzuru, even if I like many skaters.

 

[YuzusHydroblade]

Oh guys no please no, this thread is already in a dark place because of the article please don't start with the r word

 

[Rissa]

Yeap. Tech specialist once told me Mao Asada never had a true 3A. Reputation matters a lot in this world.

With the great technique he has Yuzuru still has no advantage. It's funny but true.

The whole skating world is already preparing for Yuzuru to retire because they want someone new. I guess once he retires they will be happy indeed, especially Nagoya group. I will be happy with them honestly, because once Yuzuru retires, I will happily watch competions without worry.

But once Yuzuru retires, they will have to face the Russian fed and USFA and maybe even Skate Canada, these federations all have better political power. So... good luck with that.

... aren't we getting carried away a bit here? When I was at Worlds, sitting in the audience amongst the Japanese fans, there was no doubt who they really came for. Sure, they cheered for Shoma, so did I, but their reaction to Shoma was nothing compared to the reaction to Yuzu. Yuzu still leads all the competition prediction games here, 90% of commentators seem to adore Yuzu. Nagoya group does not the entire figure skating workd make, I get an impression the FS world as a whole is nowhere near to let Yuzuru go or want him to go.

 

[YuzusHydroblade]

So you basically didn't bother to read a big part of the posts here (because yes that translation was posted pages ago and has been discussed for as long), yet you feel the need to preach? The irony that you try to call out people here for over-dramatizing and then over-dramatize a whole post is A+ though.
You are free to use the ignore list btw, just as everyone else. I just reminded myself of that too.



I don't think it sounds concerned? And Nathan is still pretty far off on PCS. If I or you or Akiko thinks far enough or not is another matter, but he's still in another 'tier' PCS wise. Additionally, Yuzu might have said no 4Lz, but I don't think that is what she is referring too, as she never mentions that (he said it not too long ago too, would she have heard that before this interview was done?). We don't have any confirmation if Nathan or Shoma will upgrade at all (though I also assume they will, we just don't know), and IMO she's more focused on talking about potential than any exact plans that where mentioned. Her interpretation of how much potential anyone has, that is IMO, well, off.
And for the overall tone, I can only tell you that 2 different friends who read it and translated parts of it for me had a pretty different impression overall than what the English translation gives me. Basically, what different Japanese speakers here said now too, the original is very... open to interpretation in quite a few instances, the English translation seems to make it a lot more positive.

Re the edited pics of Shomas jumps: it's related to the overall topic of "politics". Honest question - do you not think that's weird? The article mentions Yuzus first ever 4Lo - and needs to follow it up immediately with Shoma doing a harder jump. Added with a pic to make Shomas jumps look more impressive then they are. To me, that looks like trying to prop up Shoma in expense of Yuzu. And it is coming from the same "region" as Akikos article (though maybe that exact one isn't, but there are edits like that definitely too).

This. I think this is the whole problem with the article
(and with japanese in general, imo)
English or japanese, there's just too much in there that could be interpreted in not so nice ways.

She doesn't know Yuzu's strategy, she's not from his team. So she can only assume, that's why she has to very carefully evaluate weaknesses and strenghts of all mentioned competitors.

However, Yuzu is pictured like:
- not quite emotional at H&L at Helsinki, obviously compared to Shoma and Chen or other competitors. First question: what MORE does she want from H&L? Second question: how does she know Shoma or Chen or Boyang would do H&L more emotionally and preserving the character of the program?

- almost on the same level of SS, TR and other PCS with Shoma and Chen (and she talked not about the score).

- too old (LOL) to keep up with technical abilities of his rivals (and here she just HAD to talk in details about Yuzu's own abilities and great qualities, had to compare his jumps and others' jumps, like "Yes, he doesn't jump 4Lz and 4F, but look at GOE and his creativity when he fights for his content and does YOLO jumps".)

Sorry but for me the article is on the same level with those papers with faked Shoma's 4F photos, which have "Hanyu" at the title but are focused mainly on "4F is more expensive than 4Lo".


Anyway, can't wait to read Akiko's comments about Shoma's strategy for Olympics

I find that completely impossible to believe, since Yuzu himself said something along the lines of age not being something that makes it difficult to keep up with his rivals. It seemed to me like he changed the way he adds new things? I might be dead wrong, but that's the impression i got. I felt he was very sincere when he said that and if he was really concerned i don't think he would have answered in the way he did. I can think of a dozen ways to answer that if he was concerned, and Yuzu is clearly more intelligent than me.
It was even easier because facial expressions. That's why i'm inclined to believe it wasn't just PR talk
Like i said, i don't think we should take it too serious. It hurts when they say not so nice things about Yuzu, but he's in a place where someone will always have something bad to say about him.

ETA: Yes, the post #70100 is me trying to be rational!!

 

[fishheadanon]

... aren't we getting carried away a bit here? When I was at Worlds, sitting in the audience amongst the Japanese fans, there was no doubt who they really came for. Sure, they cheered for Shoma, so did I, but their reaction to Shoma was nothing compared to the reaction to Yuzu. Yuzu still leads all the competition prediction games here, 90% of commentators seem to adore Yuzu. Nagoya group does not the entire figure skating workd make, I get an impression the FS world as a whole is nowhere near to let Yuzuru go or want him to go.

I guess Meoima may be referring to the esteemed organizations knowsn as the ISU and the JSF? Their attitudes can be reflected in scoring. And also maybe the fact that he is so loved just encourages that attitude. Who knows what the people on the clouds think?

 

[alia jackson]

I kept replaying these (i'm suppose to go to sleep ).....
Helsinki practice clip, the way he moved to the beat of the song is awesome :luv17:...the same here the hands and head flick to the beat of the music such rockstar

I truly love Yuzu musicality and style which is not only when he performing his SP/LP but every time when he is on the ice.

Some skaters are musical during their SP/LP but when they are in a gala or ice shows dancing to random music they are not dancing to the music and look awkward.

 

[Rissa]

I guess Meoima may be referring to the esteemed organizations knowsn as the ISU and the JSF? Their attitudes can be reflected in scoring. And also maybe the fact that he is so loved just encourages that attitude. Who knows what the people on the clouds think?

Ah, ok, I see.

How can the fact that Yuzuru is super-loved overall be to the disadvantage of ISU or JSF though? He's bringing in the fans, the younger demo, fills media, spreads the popularity of the sport?

 

[Yatagarasu]

Like i said, i don't think we should take it too serious. It hurts when they say not so nice things about Yuzu, but he's in a place where someone will always have something bad to say about him.

I didn't have the impression that people did take it seriously, in fact, there was a lot of amusement about the whole thing. Then it got as it did because of the English translation.

In general, I really don't care if some here don't believe that there is a concentrated effort to push another, at the expense of Yuzuru because whether they do or not, it won't change what's happening. But the reason that we can't change it, is also why some of us never bring this stuff into this thread. There's more than that, there has been for a very, very long time so when some people who have watched this for years react, it's possible that they are seeing different things because their perspective is different.

I mean I suppose everyone's welcome to call photoshopped jumps as 'accidents', ratings that are fudged as 'accidents', articles as 'accidents' ... but you know.

 

[Fayruza]

*show head uncertainly to this thread*
I... guess I pick the wrongest day to join.
...

Anyway, hi!
Just want you all to know I've been lurking for awhile now, and finally conjure enough courage (and time) to post anything.
Thank you for all the pictures!! May I save them? Promise, I'm not making profit or even sharing them without permission.

Hello, we don't bite and rarely bark, in fact.

 

[Yatagarasu]

*show head uncertainly to this thread*
I... guess I pick the wrongest day to join.
...

Anyway, hi!
Just want you all to know I've been lurking for awhile now, and finally conjure enough courage (and time) to post anything.
Thank you for all the pictures!! May I save them? Promise, I'm not making profit or even sharing them without permission.

You could say you picked the best day to join! You just saw how unbelievably extra Yuzuru Hanyu fans are, which is very apropos as he is unbelievably extra you won't be surprised later on.

Please join the madness and welcome!

 

[Li'Kitsu]

This. I think this is the whole problem with the article
(and with japanese in general, imo)
English or japanese, there's just too much in there that could be interpreted in not so nice ways.

Well, basically, my friend (who doesn't watch FS at all btw) said she constantly went like "oh, so this guy is great!... uhm, or... not?" while reading it. So she said at the end, she didn't know what she was supposed to think and felt kind of irritated. But she also said she felt it was done like this on purpose, and that's not really a complimentary way to write an article.

I find that completely impossible to believe, since Yuzu himself said something along the lines of age not being something that makes it difficult to keep up with his rivals.

It's nonsense. Yuzu just included a new quad. Last time he did that (2012-13), he only did it in one program, now he even did it in both. He raised the number of quads in the LP. Last time he went from 2 to 3, he didn't do that with an additionally completely new jump. if that's not enough, look at him after his LP in 2014 and now at WC. Difference of day and night.
Men don't tend to peak in their teens anyway I think. So I'm really puzzled were this "Yuzu is not progressing as much technically" is coming from


PS: @Alia, yes, seeing who thumbs up what in this thread is super fun

 

[fishheadanon]

Ah, ok, I see.

How can the fact that Yuzuru is super-loved overall be to the disadvantage of ISU or JSF though? He's bringing in the fans, the younger demo, fills media, spreads the popularity of the sport?

I'm just wildly guessing here, but maybe they're not happy that it's this person being super-loved right now and not their chosen person, a person who could be better controlled and monetized? Maybe...maybe... they are under the impression that if he goes the love piles on to someone else? A wild and irresponsible maybe?

 

[beki]

Every criticism can do damage and plant niggling seeds of doubt, but "too old" is one of the less effective ones. It's factually wrong, and he can prove it wrong. If Yuzuru puts his mind and body to mastering the 4Lz, of course I'm confident he can do it. I won't judge him if it doesn't happen for some reason, but with his talent and personality, I expect him to be able to succeed at what he tries. It won't surprise me if he goes straight to the 4A. Then his critics will look like total fools.

 

[sweetwater]

Totally off topic but why do newspapers always pick the most horrible pictures of Yuzuru, normally when he's mid-jump? Like they're not flattering at all and make him look like a troll or something. If you want a motion shot for your article please put on a photo from the back and then perhaps add a nicer photo in the article.

I went to a Sunao Noto’s sports photography seminar few weeks ago and in Q&A section someone asked the same question. According to Noto san, newspapers are the media for recording what happened (result-wise,) so they use photos of the elements in the program which was the key to the victory/defeat of the skater, which often is a difficult jump. Magazines on the other hand don’t have to report what happened that way, so he seldom takes pictures during jumps and spins.

On Akiko’s article I can hardly agree with anything in it. In my opinion H&L was very emotional program and Yuzu conveyed the emotion in every part of his performance especially in Helsinki. I have objections about technical analysis in this article too. But it’s my opinion and she has hers.

But I’m confused about Kozuka. I’ve read his comments in Number Plus in which he praised everyone including Yuzu and made suggestions for skaters to improve their skating (which can be seen as nitpicking) but he never criticized Yuzu alone and push a skater from Nagoya. He actually criticized the other skater from N as well. I wonder if this article is one of the causes of this discussion or there is another article in which he just criticized Yuzu to push someone. If such article exists I would be very sad because I believe Kozuka is as sincere as Nobu even if they have different approach toward talking about figure skating and helping fellow skaters.