Yuzuru Hanyu: 2017-2018

[beki]

which one is it? is he playing it safe or taking a risk? cause you cant do both at the same time :think:

I know it seems like a paradox, but I think I understand what padme21 is getting at.

I'm sure this is an oversimplification, but I can imagine two scenarios:

1) He repeats or exceeds the quality of GPF15 and is instantly catapulted to ultimate legend GOAT status

2) He makes mistakes so his skates feel anticlimactic, possibly more so than Sochi (with different medal outcomes possible)

He is playing it safe by using programs he's comfortable with. He is minimizing risk by avoiding new programs that might not work as well as the old ones. However, there is actually no escape from risk, and no 100% guarantee that he can skate familiar programs clean at the Olympics.

If he falls short of his past performances, he will probably be criticized more harshly than if he made mistakes with new material. His gamble on not gambling wouldn't have paid off. :scratch3: (However, for him, falling short would be equally disappointing no matter which program he performs.) Evan Lysacek can be brought up in this instance too. He won the gold, but has he won in the court of public opinion? Well, it's complicated. I hope we won't have much reason to compare Yuzu to Lysacek, and that he will glow far, far brighter.

Of course, the third scenario is that he isn't perfect but still does very well. (He'll forever nitpick his own mistakes though.) The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to tune out all outside opinions. He's going to have critics no matter what happens. And if he doesn't get the result he wants (I don't want to be more specific because I don't want to jinx it), I doubt he will second guess his decision to repeat programs. Instead he will second guess his execution of them. It's more that other people would point to his decision as a wrong one. It would become permanent chat fodder like Brian losing, Michelle losing, Sotnikova winning, etc. But that isn't his problem.

Strategically, I think his decision is sound, although it doesn't suit my personal preferences.

 

[quad ax]

Ok, so the only thing I can happily imagine about next season will be the costume. (since there's no change in music and I already know the components except for detailed steps) However, I hardly think about new costumes, because chopin was so beautiful and Seimei was really similar to what Abe no Seimei wore in the movie. But I hope one of costumes is black.... (and two will be better

 

[beki]

Ok, so the only thing I can happily imagine about next season will be the costume. (since there's no change in music and I already know the components except for detailed steps) However, I hardly think about new costumes, because chopin was so beautiful and Seimei was really similar to what Abe no Seimei wore in the movie. But I hope one of costumes is black.... (and two will be better

One thing I noticed from the recent photos of Seimei is that you can't see his hand gestures as well when he is wearing black practice gear. His black gloves stood out against the light top of his original costume. Which I loved. So I have to go against the black brigade.

 

[xeyra]

He also risks the judges holding off on those 10s and +3 GOEs in these repeated 'safe' programs. Which they kind of already did last season, to be honest, regardless of him having new programs (forever salty about his Worlds SP 4Lo not getting a +3), so it makes little difference in the end. Might as well try to go for the consistently clean strategy and if all else fails, bring in the 4Lz if he doesn't start with it already.

 

[beki]

He also risks the judges holding off on those 10s and +3 GOEs in these repeated 'safe' programs. Which they kind of already did last season, to be honest, regardless of him having new programs (forever salty about his Worlds SP 4Lo not getting a +3), so it makes little difference in the end. Might as well try to go for the consistently clean strategy and if all else fails, bring in the 4Lz if he doesn't start with it already.

Exactly. I don't like it, but that's how it is.

 

[xeyra]

Exactly. I don't like it, but that's how it is.

I'm not particularly happy about two repeat programs either (would be happier if only one was) but I've made my peace with it. Now I just hope to see a 4Lz materialize during next season. And a few good seasons after with new programs.

And maybe a jazzy EX for this season?

 

[chillgil]

well....now that i've been officially outed as a hanyu fan in the edge i wanted to make my first post here just to say thank you to all you lovely people and this fan fest because of whom i was able to survive off season.

cheers!

 

[FCSSp4]

Hi! I'm a (relatively) new Yuzuru Hanyu fan who got into figure skating thanks to his performances. The first one I saw was his PW SP at Sochi and I thought how different it was from the figure skating my parents used to watch. It's great to see other Yuzuru fans who support him too. I have a lot of favorite skaters but he's my favorite. He's exciting to watch both as an athlete and as an artist!

 

[Interspectator]

well....now that i've been officially outed as a hanyu fan in the edge i wanted to make my first post here just to say thank you to all you lovely people and this fan fest because of whom i was able to survive off season.

cheers!

Hi! I'm a (relatively) new Yuzuru Hanyu fan who got into figure skating thanks to his performances. The first one I saw was his PW SP at Sochi and I thought how different it was from the figure skating my parents used to watch. It's great to see other Yuzuru fans who support him too. I have a lot of favorite skaters but he's my favorite. He's exciting to watch both as an athlete and as an artist!

Welcome to you both! Post often and long. And have fun!

 

[Interspectator]

Tell that Evan Lysacek.

And Arakawa Shizuka.

 

[yude]

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/othersports/figure/2017/08/11/post_20/index.php

This is great article (thank you, Mr.Oriyama, as always!), as new info, Yuzuru was practicing 3A2Lo also on media days. And he really cares about his body, he keeps trying to do jumps and training in good quality to avoid getting injury.

 

[iorii]

One thing I noticed from the recent photos of Seimei is that you can't see his hand gestures as well when he is wearing black practice gear. His black gloves stood out against the light top of his original costume. Which I loved. So I have to go against the black brigade.

Same, I think light colors look good on him and I'm not expecting new costume either. I'm looking forward only to his improved performance. Seimei 1.0 costume is already good as it is.

well....now that i've been officially outed as a hanyu fan in the edge i wanted to make my first post here just to say thank you to all you lovely people and this fan fest because of whom i was able to survive off season.

cheers!

Hi! I'm a (relatively) new Yuzuru Hanyu fan who got into figure skating thanks to his performances. The first one I saw was his PW SP at Sochi and I thought how different it was from the figure skating my parents used to watch. It's great to see other Yuzuru fans who support him too. I have a lot of favorite skaters but he's my favorite. He's exciting to watch both as an athlete and as an artist!

Hello!! Welcome!! Post often and enjoy your stay! :hap85:

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/othersports/figure/2017/08/11/post_20/index.php

This is great article (thank you, Mr.Oriyama, as always!), as new info, Yuzuru was practicing 3A2Lo also on media days. And he really cares about his body, he keeps trying to do jumps and training in good quality to avoid getting injury.

Thank you, it's good to know. Btw I'm not familiar with combination jump scores, between 3A-2Lo and 3A-3T, which one has more BV?

 

[yude]

Thank you, it's good to know. Btw I'm not familiar with combination jump scores, between 3A-2Lo and 3A-3T, which one has more BV?

3A3T has higher BV but it seems he was doing 3A2Lo instead of 3A2T, I don't think he did that during the run-through though.

 

[kiches]

Hmm 3A2lo... do you think he's wondering about where else he can put on that 2T?

 

[zebobes]

Hmm 3A2lo... do you think he's wondering about where else he can put on that 2T?

No, he only has so many combo slots, and the 2T isn't worth that much, the main thing is it allows you to repeat a more valuable triple. A 2lo is worth more in base value than a 2T. I think he is slowly upgrading his combos, maybe with the eventual goal of doing a 3lo instead of a 2toe, but for most skaters it's pretty difficult to full rotate a 3 loop at the end of a combo, so I guess it's good to start with. 2 Lo.

 

[kiches]

No, he only has so many combo slots, and the 2T isn't worth that much, the main thing is it allows you to repeat a more valuable triple. A 2lo is worth more in base value than a 2T. I think he is slowly upgrading his combos, maybe with the eventual goal of doing a 3lo instead of a 2toe, but for most skaters it's pretty difficult to full rotate a 3 loop at the end of a combo, so I guess it's good to start with. 2 Lo.

Yeah that's true, he's already got all his combos covered. He seems to be experimenting quite a bit which is exciting.

 

[Yatagarasu]

If he did a 3A-2Lo then he wants a 3A-3Lo, which is both ever so exciting and ... it makes my hips hurt. From a BV point of view, perfectly understandable though. I suppose we know and are seeing in practice some of that which he said he needs to do before the 4Lz. Yes, he's fully attacking everything first. I wonder if he'll rippon anything in the FS...

I am really excited to see the step sequence though, that should be something considering how much he's improved.

ETA
Oh yes, someone asked about values?

3A-2T = 9.8 ->> 10.78
3A-2Lo = 10.3 ->> 11. 33
3A-3Lo = 13.6 ->> 14.96

So yes, potentially a huge jump in points.

 

[riminin]

He also risks the judges holding off on those 10s and +3 GOEs in these repeated 'safe' programs. Which they kind of already did last season, to be honest, regardless of him having new programs (forever salty about his Worlds SP 4Lo not getting a +3), so it makes little difference in the end. Might as well try to go for the consistently clean strategy and if all else fails, bring in the 4Lz if he doesn't start with it already.

I think judges didn't like or understand these programs. Whereas they love Chopin and SEIMEI.

 

[nimi]

a quick look at Yuzu's FP BVs in recent times...

Seimei @ 2015 GPF
BV 95.19 (with StSq3; would have been 95.79 with StSq4)
TES with GOE 120.92

Hope & Legacy @ Worlds 2017
BV 103.43 (everything was level 4)
TES with GOE 126.12

Hope & Legacy @ WTT 2017
The program content he was going for (had he not popped the first 4S):
1. 4Lo 12.00
2. 4S 10.50
3. FCCoSp4 3.50
4. StSq4 3.90
5. 3F 5.30
- - -
6. 4S+3T 16.28
7. 4T 11.33
8. 3A+2T 10.78
9. 4T+1Lo+3S 16.72
10. FCSSp 3.00
11. ChSq 2.00
12. 3Lz 6.60
13. CCoSp4 3.50

BV 105.41

- - -

in comparison...

Nathan Chen's FP 2017 4cc
(4Lz+3T, 4F, 4T, 4T+2T; 3A+2T+2T*, 4S, 3Lz, 3A)
BV 106.48 (everything level4)
TES with GOE 115.48
(had Nathan done 3A+2T+2Lo, his BV would have been 1.98 points higher)

Yuzu's 4cc FP
(with the planned second-half 4S+3T combo popped to 2S+1Lo - lost over 14 points in a single element! Also no half loop triple sal combo here)
BV 93.20
TES with GOE 112.33

For perspective: Even with the big pop and therefore significantly lower BV, Yuzu won the free skate @ 4cc with 2+ points over Nathan because of his GOE & PCS advantage.

Hope I got everything right and someone finds this helpful!

 

[Tulipstar]

I'm a bit surprised that he repeats both programs. I had expected one, but not both.

That said, I would love to have non-fans see the beauty of both as he skates them to perfection.