2015 Europeans Men's Free Skate, Jan. 30

[Sandpiper]

I'm in the minority but I love Amodio's FS Its weird, its fun, its different and only he could pull it off Congrats to the medalists! Especially Javier who defended his 3rd title! I'm okay with the placements but the scores are . Here's hoping that skaters that showed up today won't show up at WC's. :hopelessness:

I like the second half of his LP. But the first half? Well, people call Sergei's programs empty, but this was worse for me...

 

[Alba]

Arakawa won Olympics only because Mao didnt compete.

and because Irina and Sasha failed, I think.

 

[chairmanmao]

That was a very disappointing free skate. When was the last time that Fernandez skated clean? I can understand why he was so glum in the K&C, that type of skate will have him no where near a worlds podium. I was really shocked that Kovtun's TES was so high, so many of his jumps didn't look great. I also think the use of his arms is kinda awkward. After Javier skate, I thought Voronov had a chance of gold but once he doubled footed his opening quad, it wasn't going to happen.

My favourite performance was Bychenko followed by Ringhini. Very poor from Brezina, after everyone else failed to deliver a medal of any colour was his for the taking and he imploded.

Javi's scoring potential can go over 180 easily if he has good skate and over 190 if he is perfect. 170 are what he usually scores now if he botches a couple elements. Gold might be hard with Hanyu as competition but I cannot think of any other skater who can keep from silver if he is reasonably decent. This bad skate by Javi is enough for a silver seeing only Mura(almost flawless), Ten and Kozuka among the active men have scored over 170 in their careers. Also Voronov and Brezina passing him would have been highly improbable seeing these 2 have never scored 170 plus much less score over 180 to pass Fernandez.

 

[Interspectator]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/stolbova-klimov-lead-pairs-euros-191242510--spt.html
Apparently, Javi was very sleepy and tired during the FS. -He did look tired. And then they made him sit in the 'other' waiting room with the cameras on him. That must have been tough 'cause he couldn't get a quick nap during the other guys' performances.

 

[Alba]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/stolbova-klimov-lead-pairs-euros-191242510--spt.html
Apparently, Javi was very sleepy and tired during the FS. -He did look tired. And then they made him sit in the 'other' waiting room with the cameras on him. That must have been tough 'cause he couldn't get a quick nap during the other guys' performances.

Oh Javi. I would've loved to see him take a nap during the other guy's performances.

 

[Sandpiper]

Javi's scoring potential can go over 180 easily if he has good skate and over 190 if he is perfect. 170 are what he usually scores now if he botches a couple elements. Gold might be hard with Hanyu as competition but I cannot think of any other skater who can keep from silver if he is reasonably decent. This bad skate by Javi is enough for a silver seeing only Mura(almost flawless), Ten and Kozuka among the active men have scored over 170 in their careers. Also Voronov and Brezina passing him would have been highly improbable seeing these 2 have never scored 170 plus much less score over 180 to pass Fernandez.

I think Ten will keep silver from Javi if he skates like this at Worlds. Little chance for even a reasonably decent Kozuka though... not unless he gets rid of all the UR/two-foot problems. Mura is very hot-and-cold, so I have no idea what to expect.

Oh Javi. I would've loved to see him take a nap during the other guy's performances.

It would've been difficult with all the, er, "crashing" noises.

 

[chairmanmao]

I'm a fan of difficulty and as such I'm a fan of Kovtun. His skating is a bit stiff, but TBH Machida and Ten (and Hanyu's/Javier's SPs) are the only men's skates that I've been really digging this season.

I'm also a sucker for skaters who everyone hates on and wants to see fail actually sticking it to their haters. (even if its someone bratty like Kovtun). It's funny when people hate a skater and to the frustration of their critics gets good results. I don't think Voronov is at all a better skater, but IMO people seem to side with him not because he's a particularly amazing skater but simply because they want to see Kovtun lose.

I saw his LP at Worlds last year and I can surely say Kovtun is not the stiff mannequin that people keep ragging him to be. His jumps might look awkward and his landings might not be ideal but he almost always gets the rotations. Kovtun has one of the most consistent 3A's in the tour(unlike a certain skater who can't even land a quad) and lands 2 kinds of quads. His artistry might not be up to par with Hanyu or Chan but to put him in the same vein as Voronov is stretching it. I prefer his style to that of Jason Brown honestly and for me without a doubt much better artistically to that of Adam Rippon. People might have enjoyed Rippon's FS at National's and dubbed it as one of the great performances there but I have the opposite feeling. I cringed at seeing Piano Concerto No. 1, the music that Kozuka immortalized at TEB 2010 and at Worlds 2011, skated to like that.

 

[Lipea]

Let's just remember that Hughes skated "lights out!" To win her Olympic gold. Also one must recall that although the Kwan and Slutskaya LP's were not typical of their usual performances, they were NOT the bungled mess that Kovton laid out today.

Well, Irina actually did not fail. She was not the best at her free skate but without any real mistakes, however she indeed got 0.1 higher technical score than Hughes (hello, URs!), and by sum their presentation marks for the free skate were THE SAME. And people tend to compare their free skate only, whereas by short program there were a huge difference. Slutskaya had an amazing short, and fairly should've been first after SP or Hughes should've been 5th, but judges specially placed them the way so other 2 U.S. skaters could still win if Kwan failed. In particular there were 3 judges: German, Italian and American who gave Slutskaya lower marks than others in both SP and FS. The same political/corruption/homecooking situation as in Sochi, and Irina did tell that "Adelina took a revenge for me, for my 2002." To say that Irina failed in 2002 Olympics would be the same offense as to say that Yuna failed in 2014. Irina had to fairly the first Russian Olympic Champ. lady, not Adelina. At least Yuna had one gold Olympic title anyway.

 

[Sandpiper]

Well, Irina actually did not fail. She was not the best at her free skate but without any real mistakes, however she indeed got 0.1 higher technical score than Hughes (hello, URs!), and by sum their presentation marks for the free skate were THE SAME. And people tend to compare their free skate only, whereas by short program there were a huge difference. Slutskaya had an amazing short, and fairly should've been first after SP or Hughes should've been 5th, but judges specially placed them the way so other 2 U.S. skaters could still win if Kwan failed. In particular there were 3 judges: German, Italian and American who gave Slutskaya lower marks than others in both SP and FS. The same political/corruption/homecooking situation as in Sochi, and Irina did tell that "Adelina took a revenge for me, for my 2002." To say that Irina failed in 2002 Olympics would be the same offense as to say that Yuna failed in 2014. Irina had to fairly the first Russian Olympic Champ. lady, not Adelina. At least Yuna had one gold Olympic title anyway.

Irina's LP was subpar, even if it wasn't nearly as bad as any of the men today drama. None of her usual speed, no real attempt at performing, not the best quality on some of her jumps. If anything, I think she should've placed behind Michelle there (While Michelle had the more jarring error, the rest of her skate was better, and I'd give it to her on the basis of the artistic mark as tiebreaker).

I agree Irina should've placed first in the SP, and Sarah probably didn't deserve the fourth place. But overall Irina didn't make the most compelling statement for gold. Not comparable to Yuna at Sochi, at any rate.

 

[Ophelia]

Ugh. Javier Fernandez has so much potential but he never lives up to it. I feel like if he had Hanyu's mindset and discipline, he'd be an Olympic medalist and World champion by now.

 

[Skater Boy]

With the expected Russian sweep, I don't think the ladies event will be very exciting either. Unless one (or more) of them implode, of course, which will be fun to watch.

That's mean. Maybe some would say it would be fun to watch the American ladies crash and burn or Yuna or Mao or Hanyu. I guess we have to remember that skater is someone's kid.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Ugh. Javier Fernandez has so much potential but he never lives up to it. I feel like if he had Hanyu's mindset and discipline, he'd be an Olympic medalist and World champion by now.

Enh. Hanyu has had meltdowns (particularly in SPs) so I don't think he is the best role model for discopline and mindset. Plu is probably a better example of a strong mindset, or Kim.

I don't get why people are so despondent over a win. Sure this lamenting is appropriate post-Sochi FS but there's nothing for him to be ashamed of. He tries 3 quads in his LP so mistakes are inevitable.

How many clean freeskates has Hanyu done, and with 2 quads at that? Everyone is prone to error. Also Hanyu's mindset didn't save him from bombing in Sochi but he was saved by everyone bombing. Same with Worlds where Machida totally deserved the win but Hanyu was held up on PCS in the SP which eventually made a difference.

People just need to accept that, like Hanyu/Kovtun/anyone going for crazy content, Fernandez is bound to make errors with his difficulty (and im also talking inbetween elements) and as with Chan/Hanyu it might be a while until we see him skate to his full potential. He's certainly improved compared to prior Olympic cycles. But I guess you can't please everybody.

 

[Skater Boy]

It's called rooting for the underdogs. I was rooting for Bychenko the whole time.

Okay but if you are consistent shoudn't you cheer for the Russian men then????

 

[Skater Boy]

Well, I decided to not complain about Javier's PCS, but then I saw a judge gave him 9.75 for his SS. Seriously, you must be kidding me.

Maybe he pushed the wrong button and it was suppose to be an 8 not a 9 (let's hope).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Let's just remember that Hughes skated "lights out!" To win her Olympic gold. Also one must recall that although the Kwan and Slutskaya LP's were not typical of their usual performances, they were NOT the bungled mess that Kovton laid out today.

Because a bungled mess of a performance didn't end up winning today... :sarcasm: My biggest surprise is seeing people criticize the judging - you'd think Kovtun won instead given the flak Javier is getting for his win.

If I recall, the general sentiment about Kovtun's TEB win was that it was because Ten bombed and few actually regarded the fact that he had a clean FS (many thought the SP should have put him out of the running, instead of acknowledging that a strong performance sealed the victory... Or tried diminishing it as Ten simply having a bad FS). Not just with Kovtun but a lot of skaters credit isn't given where credit is due. People also wail about D/R winning things when it's obvious that they earn it with higher difficulty.

 

[Skater Boy]

4CC is hard to watch also to be honest. You won't see good skaters from the Ladies for instance until the last couple groups when the Japanese, American and Canadian ladies are up. But before then it's rough watching the earlier groups.

I don't think you can include the Canadian ladies as for good skaters. Without Osmond they are like without a champion and top ten will be very tough for them.

 

[DexterK]

+3 for the SteSq, no negative GoE's for his 2Lutz, 9s for IN and PE.
I thought his SP was scored ok, but this is not.

I agree with you wholeheartedly Alba. Well said.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Absolutely. But you were listing examples to prove that



& the Torino example clearly did not fit with the rest.

Cue sarcasm: Slutskaya and Kwan were off their game, so Hughes won only because they were off - I mean it's not like she skated well or anything. :sarcasm: Hubert skated well at Lalique.. Kovtun had a strong FS at Russians 2014 against Plu and TEB to win... Etc.

My point was, instead of lauding strong skates to point out why skaters did win, so many people are often quick to say they "only won" because the favourites made mistakes. It would be like saying Medvedeva won Russian bronze only because Pogo and Lip were off their game. Kovtun has earned his victories, including his silver here ... Yeah he was sloppy but he did a lot of things right too and Voronov made costly errors himself.

People were going so far as to say Kovtun should have been behind Bychenko (LMAO)... It's painfully obvious how manic and desperate people are to have Kovtun finish off the podium... what, so they can sneer that "even Bychenko beat him". Pathetic.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Absolutely not true in my case. Sergei's jumps look much better to my eyes, he's been more consistent for the past couple seasons, he connects more with his music (not so much today, but in general). I have said plenty of times that I have nothing against Kovtun as a person. I actually kind of like him. But I find his programs beyond boring, his jumps ugly, and I think he has been gifted high PCS one too many times. I've made peace with the fact that he is the Russian fed's darling for the foreseeable future, but I still prefer every other man on Team Russia.

Fair enough, but his PCS was quite low... Sub-80... So it's not like politicking heavily came into play here. Of anything Fernandez' marks were inflated in both segments.

 

[salchowx4]

Javi's scoring potential can go over 180 easily if he has good skate and over 190 if he is perfect. 170 are what he usually scores now if he botches a couple elements. Gold might be hard with Hanyu as competition but I cannot think of any other skater who can keep from silver if he is reasonably decent. This bad skate by Javi is enough for a silver seeing only Mura(almost flawless), Ten and Kozuka among the active men have scored over 170 in their careers. Also Voronov and Brezina passing him would have been highly improbable seeing these 2 have never scored 170 plus much less score over 180 to pass Fernandez.

Whether one agrees with his marks or not, it can't be denied that he is heavy favorite for 2nd at Worlds. The battle at Worlds for the men will be the bronze.