2017 GP Cup of China Ladies FS

[Kayyyn]

Agree. Mai is consistent, she rarely make mistakes, but even 65 she doesn't get that. Same with Satoko. She has been consistent for 3 seasons but she rarely hit 70 points. I wonder if she even get that once.
Consistency is the sixth component for some people only.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm mai no one know her until mid last season
wakaba didnt skate clean short and free last season and satoko she always URs so many jumps

 

[qwertyskates]

I'm watching Men's FS, and even though Zhou is remarkable technically even he couldn't keep up till the end.

Same with Wakaba, she skated like her life depended on it, and it shows. She exerted herself throughout and threw herself into the skate.

Zagitova skated a very difficult program as if it was NOTHING...actually it was very demanding, very taxing on the body. She just made it look easy. This is why she deserves PCS through the roof, she didn't even break a sweat.

 

[qwertyskates]

Skating is also about the explosion of power off the ice. But whilst in ballet you're pushing off your toes, in figure skating you're pushing off your toepicks. The biggest problem with judging figure skating through ballet eyes is that ballet is about line. It's about attaining that body position from head to toe which is aesthetically pleasing. My ballet teacher once said it doesn't matter what you're doing, sometimes you could be just standing on stage and attaining that balletic posture and position. Well in figure skating and especially at this level, you can't afford to do that since you need to pack your programs with elements so you can be competitive TES-wise. If you look at Ballet on Ice performances they don't need that so you can see them attaining these postures and positions longer and having a greater feel for music. That's impossible at this level.

Like I said before, Alina is selling the idea of a ballet dancer on ice. She's not a ballet dancer, she's a competitive figure skater. We all know that. But as far as the idea, the program, the fantasy of a ballet dancer on ice. The Black Swan on Ice, Kitri (Red Ballerina) on Ice, it works.

I agree....I have more to say but I'm watching Men's now...

Catching up, you're right, and that's why it's difficult to hold the posture on ice when a skater has to cope with issues of balance and movement.

The explosion from the toepick is also greater due to speed and acceleration than ballet and more difficult to control than ballet.

Ballet does help figure skating a lot, especially because of the control of many turns, chaines and pirouettes. That helps to control the rotations of jumps, so definitely an advantage to the Russians.

Still, amazing Zagitova could keep so much control, and because she made it look easy ( as her character demands), it is assumed it wasn't a super performance and a moving skate.

 

[matcha]

What do Marin, Wakaba ESPECIALLY and Mai have to do to get the PCS they deserve. Behind Alina? Yeah OK.

Once again, performance of the free goes to Wakaba (and Mai).

 

[chairmanmao]

Wakaba was robbed TWICE in this grand prix alone and that's not okay.

Wakaba is hardly what I call an underscored skater. Very poor body line and stubby limbs. If I have to rank the Japanese ladies it would be Honda, Mihara... Miyahara………then her. FYI Zagitova is a phenomenon just like her compatriot who you probably also hate.

 

[OS]

For Japanese ladies, it also does not help that their Fed can't decide who is the number one on the team. Once Japanese team leader decided, no matter who, I expect the PCS shot up by 2-3 points. None of the current crop had reached Miayhara's PCS yet because I suspect the international judges still regard her as the leader.

What are you on about, I didn't realise Alina is the new Russia number 1.

 

[draqq]

I'm watching Men's FS, and even though Zhou is remarkable technically even he couldn't keep up till the end.

Same with Wakaba, she skated like her life depended on it, and it shows. She exerted herself throughout and threw herself into the skate.

Zagitova skated a very difficult program as if it was NOTHING...actually it was very demanding, very taxing on the body. She just made it look easy. This is why she deserves PCS through the roof, she didn't even break a sweat.

Well, that's true. She does make the difficult Rippon triples look easy. Not sure if that means she should get higher PCS, but she should certainly have high TES as much as I'm not a fan of backloading.

 

[David21]

Jeeez, guys. PCS is not only about "how I love this skater". I love both Alina and Wakaba, but really, Wakaba isn't on Alina's level in terms of complex transitions, speed, multidirectional skating, overall jumping technique or lines. I love love love Wakaba, but her skating today wasn't on a par with Alina's. The gap wasn't big, though, and fairly so.

Alina and Wakaba scored the same on choreography/composition which is of course simply wrong when you compare both programs and we all know that.

 

[whatif]

What are you on about, I didn't realise Alina is the new Russia number 1.

She is a clear N2 or maybe even N1 and what are Mihara or Higuchi or even Honda? I am confused. RusFed does better job promoting their skaters.

 

[Leonardo]

Wakaba scores like Alina. Where is underscoring? Osmond falling on *** gets about 140, and that's underscoring as well? You serious?

Of course I'm not serious. That's all conspiracy. There's no underscoring in the ladies event (never mentioned Osmond anyway). Figure skating is known for being a very very fair sport, especially in the artistic department with really consistent scoring. Consistent, always fair and it never ever fails. Falling on *** and getting 150 is perfectly fair because skater X has a lot of reputation and consistency really matters (unless you are japanese). Skater Y with a fall winning over a great, mature skater with great skills and a perfect performance is also great, because she is the main rival of skater X and has a lot of reputation. Falling on *** on SP, using your junior childish program with a one note interpretation, with no depth or variety in the theme of the program, less than ideal skating skills, rushed movements, it doesn't really matter. They are the best forever and no one can touch them even with clean skates.
[irony mode off]

Just to clarify, I do think that Alina is amazing in many areas. Ss, ch and in are not amongst them. Transitions, performance and technicall overall quality are. Medvedeva also has
many qualities, consistency, solid tech, huge performances...But they should NOT be unbeatable especially when they make mistakes and other amazing complete skaters do not.
And I'm perfectly ok that they will win gold and silver in 2018 because they are great and they are probably going to earn it. My problem is, they should not win every competition regardless of what happens on the ice. Wakaba definitely deserved this one, for example.
Extreme overscoring or underscoring makes competitions pointless. Even some russians fans are probably tired of seeing the same results over and over regardless of what happens on the ice. That's why, for me, junior competitions are much more exciting. Reputation is not a huge factor yet.

 

[Shayuki]

Well, that's true. She does make the difficult Rippon triples look easy. Not sure if that means she should get higher PCS, but she should certainly have high TES as much as I'm not a fan of backloading.

Just like with Medvedeva's programs, people seem to only be concentrating on the jumps - backloading, rippons, tanos...

That's not the thing, it's the actual skating. Both hers and Medvedeva's are the most difficult programs by far, if you remove every single element. No one else's comes close.

 

[jenm]

Wakaba is hardly what I call an underscored skater. Very poor body line and stubby limbs. If I have to rank the Japanese ladies it would be Honda, Mihara... Miyahara………then her. FYI Zagitova is a phenomenon just like her compatriot who you probably also hate.

I don't hate anyone. If you've read any of my posts, I love Zhenya. I've defended her many times against people who say mean things to her. So no. I don't hate anyone, why would I?
I think a lot of people agree that IN THIS EVENT, Wakaba should have gotten more in PCS in the free skate and should have been first in the short program. There's no denying Alina's talent. In fact, I am impressed by her technical capabilities. But in this case, Wakaba delivered a better program than everyone.

 

[qwertyskates]

Well, that's true. She does make the difficult Rippon triples look easy. Not sure if that means she should get higher PCS, but she should certainly have high TES as much as I'm not a fan of backloading.

A big problem is that audiences like to be emotionally moved, and some performances can be excellent without moving the audiences, and thus deemed to be not as deserving in PCS. That's somewhat unfair, because not all performances are about drama. Kitri for example, is about bright exuberance. It's not easy to project that for the highest BV skate to the end.

If we only reward drama, we'll end up with the same programs, POTO, Turandot, Black Swan, drama, climax, all the time.

I find it ironic that people are demanding more variety but don't appreciate it when they see something different.

I'm just glad that judges awarded Zagitova higher PCS for it.

 

[yume]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm mai no one know her until mid last season

How much time do we have to know a skater who almost consistently delivers, for her to get just 65 points?

wakaba didnt skate clean short and free last season

Yes she wasn't consistent last season. And that's why with two better programs, very well executed, she souldn't get more PCS?

and satoko she always URs so many jumps

With "so many URs" sha has won many titles and medals. more than most of the actual ladies. She is consistently on podiums. She rarely bombs. But judges don't reward that.

 

[akoko]

Wakaba is hardly what I call an underscored skater. Very poor body line and stubby limbs. If I have to rank the Japanese ladies it would be Honda, Mihara... Miyahara………then her. FYI Zagitova is a phenomenon just like her compatriot who you probably also hate.

what a body line has to do with scores?

 

[David21]

Wakaba is hardly what I call an underscored skater. Very poor body line and stubby limbs. If I have to rank the Japanese ladies it would be Honda, Mihara... Miyahara………then her. FYI Zagitova is a phenomenon just like her compatriot who you probably also hate.

There is no ISU rule which says that you can't get high PC because you have stubby limbs. Your argument is no argument.

 

[Globetrotter]

I'm watching Men's FS, and even though Zhou is remarkable technically even he couldn't keep up till the end.

Same with Wakaba, she skated like her life depended on it, and it shows. She exerted herself throughout and threw herself into the skate.

Zagitova skated a very difficult program as if it was NOTHING...actually it was very demanding, very taxing on the body. She just made it look easy. This is why she deserves PCS through the roof, she didn't even break a sweat.

But that is what is rewarded in TES. As far as I understand, a more difficult program does not fit any of the components in the PCS. I do however agree that Zagitova deserves better PCS in terms of the TR, IN and CO here as compared with the short where she was rushing and not finishing her moves properly. Her FS had much more conviction. However, I just disagree with the SS. Her blade work is not yet at the level of Wakaba or Marin. Personally, I find Wakaba's FS a lot more awe inspiring and she really ought to get slightly higher components overall than Alina. But overall, I have no complaints with Alina winning as she really did deliver and the scores were so close it could have gone anywhere.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

Wakaba is hardly what I call an underscored skater. Very poor body line and stubby limbs. If I have to rank the Japanese ladies it would be Honda, Mihara... Miyahara………then her. FYI Zagitova is a phenomenon just like her compatriot who you probably also hate.

Figure skating is not scored by how aesthetic someone's body looks to you. Gosh.

 

[Seruleane]

There is no ISU rule which says that you can't get high PC because you have stubby limbs. Your argument is no argument.

Exactly. And Wakaba's ability to perform and skate beautifully despite not having the "ideal" lithe figure skating body type make me even more impressed with her. I hope her PCS will rise as she establishes herself as Japan's leading lady. That Bond FS is the only free skate presently that gives me chills. If she skates that way at the Olympics, she better be on the podium, if not on the top of the podium.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Here having the choreo sequence at the beginning allows here to show the sophistication right off the bat and not a nervous face.

If you remember figure skating 15-20 years ago, the American ladies used to start their programs with a spiral or other movements rather than a jump, to introduce you into the performance (Gracie Gold also tried to do a similar thing with her FS last season). In that sense i think the backloaded program works for her.

There's nothing more sophisticated about Zagitova's program just because she does no jumps at all in the first half. People 15-20 years ago did not start programs like this either, where you getting that idea? Even more importantly, nobody EVER in the history of competitive figure skating, until very recently, did an entire first half of a program with 0 jumps. It's like this only because of the backloading system and how the PCS are not being held down for flawed choreography. Also, as I wrote about in the Russian Ladies thread, Zagitova for some reason watered down her choreography sequence in the program this season from what it was last season.

what a body line has to do with scores?

Body line is part of presentation, choreography, interpretation. Higuchi has improved it this year, even if she's not still the best there. But yes, there are other aspects to get the high PCS from as well.