2017 GP Cup of China Ladies FS

[onrsvm]

Apart from this competition, I really think that how to American ladies cope with these Japanese and Russian ladies. :hap93:

 

[Anni234]

You've never seen a competition won by Medvedeva then

Seriously, after 3 years you would think people are used to Medvedeva winning, but she just keeps getting more hate with every competition. That's why I usually run away from the after-competition discussions. The posts after RC were just insane.

 

[Shayuki]

Clearly consistency is over rated.. or it will only works if you are Russians. Her PCS actually shrunk with consistency.

Her PCS shrinking is a grave injustice, really. The only reason I can think of is that she got a lvl 3 step sequence instead of lvl 4, which is quite important for PCS. But it still should be more than compensated for.

 

[qwertyskates]

You've never seen a competition won by Medvedeva then

Haha....this is why I skip the forum. No matter the protests, it's all about the Russians isn't it?

I remember Rostelecom Cup Men's FS.... I prefer Men's because of the energy but Zagitova's dynamism suprises me, the climax of jumps at the end, when all the ladies look spent at that point.

 

[Tolstoj]

Her form in many of the movements is NOT to the level of what would be expected in ballet, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Beyond that, much of it is not meaningful. The jumps later in the program just become repetitive, they don't provide any kind of special interpretation of the music, even if she does them on the beats of music. Her transitions are overrated in this program as well, there's no truly spectacular movements, just many movements. Especially because her jumps lack flow out.

Disagree, i think she is still rushing into each element (though slightly better than last year) but the choreography is respectful of the theme, these movements are iconic.

Just like the short program, a lot of users here would be surprise to know that her Swan despite there is a cut in the middle has more iconic movements related to the classic ballet than Osmond or Pogo FS.

Here having the choreo sequence at the beginning allows here to show the sophistication right off the bat and not a nervous face.

If you remember figure skating 15-20 years ago, the American ladies used to start their programs with a spiral or other movements rather than a jump, to introduce you into the performance (Gracie Gold also tried to do a similar thing with her FS last season). In that sense i think the backloaded program works for her.

Personally i don't think she was overscored here, these are the kind of scores she can receive pretty much everywhere, and she did incredibly well here being in the 4th place for the first time, the pressure was on for all the ladies much more than previous events.

 

[Tulipstar]

I loved what the ladies brought to the ice today and yesterday. Such an amazing, varied group and really exciting things happening!

 

[koatcue]

Haha....this is why I skip the forum. No matter the protests, it's all about the Russians isn't it?

I remember Rostelecom Cup Men's FS.... I prefer Men's because of the energy but Zagitova's dynamism suprises me, the climax of jumps at the end, when all the ladies look spent at that point.

And what do you think about Medvedeva? Sorry for the off-top, but it's always interesting to hear from ballet-conscious people

 

[Mista Ekko]

not ever in any competition have I seen such hatred pouring out for a skater who did an amazing performance and rightfully won.

Oh come on...

First of all, No ones is hating on Alina, She is terrific and she's definitely not judging herself

Secondly, We get this kinda criticism here almost after every event
It probably happens in many sports, And what's been said on this thread is pretty mild and sometimes to the point

 

[yume]

If only Mai was in the first group, that wonderful skate could get 141+ at least. She deserved to be on the podium. IDF won't be easy. Wouldn't be surprised if she's robbed again.
Marin, what a fierce lady! that 3F at the end! Consistency is here.
Wakaba, the deserved winner today. Her program is really my favorite of the season.
Zagitova is impressive on the technical side as usual but c'mon judges! Her PCS are the biggest joke of the season so far! 4 points higher than Mai's and Marin's! 4 points! They like so much her tutu or what?!
Radionova, her shape and condidence are back and i'm happy for her. She can get that third spot. But girl, i wouldn't put you on this podium. No way.

 

[Tolstoj]

Then yesterday some user noticed that the audience clearly reacted to Gabby's first big 3-3 or Javi spins integrated into the performance.

Well here the audience really appreciated Alina's jumps perfectly timed with the music in the second half, the final spin and they were all clapping.

https://youtu.be/5kWhMDx0Z-k?t=198

We talked many times on how the audience can help a skater to boost the components.

 

[Sam L]

Disagree, i think she is still rushing into each element (though slightly better than last year) but the choreography is respectful of the theme, these movements are iconic.

Just like the short program, a lot of users here would be surprise to know that her Swan despite there is a cut in the middle has more iconic movements related to the classic ballet than Osmond or Pogo FS.

Here having the choreo sequence at the beginning allows here to show the sophistication right off the bat and not a nervous face.

If you remember figure skating 15-20 years ago, the American ladies used to start their programs with a spiral or other movements rather than a jump, to introduce you into the performance (Gracie Gold also tried to do a similar thing with her FS last season). In that sense i think the backloaded program works for her.

Personally i don't think she was overscored here, these are the kind of scores she can receive pretty much everywhere, and she did incredibly well here being in the 4th place for the first time, the pressure was on for all the ladies much more than previous events.

This is true. She has more balletic movements than Osmond or Pogorilaya's programs. They could've been skating to any other music. But Alina's is most definitely movements related to ballet. Notice the attention to detail with hand movements even like her final pose in the free skate.

 

[Shayuki]

This is true. She has more balletic movements than Osmond or Pogorilaya's programs. They could've been skating to any other music. But Alina's is most definitely movements related to ballet. Notice the attention to detail with hand movements even like her final pose in the free skate.

Well here I'll agree that her programs' movements choreo-wise make more sense than Pogorilaya's and especially Osmond's(Who's a really dry skater IMO).

But I still don't think she plays to the music very well. It's more about the theme matching which seriously doesn't work for me nearly as well.

 

[madison]

This is just not true. We can look it from another angle. Half of the people here think that Wakaba should have won CoC. Following the logic if Alina should win over Medvedeva and Wakaba should win over Zagitova then Wakaba should win over clean Medvedeva? With all due respect it is very far from reality.

Alina is on the right track but it terms of artistry and overall excellence she still has a long way to reach Medvedeva's level.

I think Alina has much more raw talent than Medvedeva.. Just hope she'll receive good and suitable programs, not overcrowded or with facial expressions as usually we find in Eteri's camp

 

[qwertyskates]

And what do you think about Medvedeva? Sorry for the off-top, but it's always interesting to hear from ballet-conscious people

Medvedeve is capable of balletic movements, but I don't think she really tried to do ballet. She is graceful and perfectly capable of performing a ballet.

Zagitova is doing Kitri of Don Quixote, and she caught the young, bright, sprightly persona very well. While she does have awkward angles at times, I suspect if she isn't on ice it would be easily corrected.

It's really difficult to perform balletic steps on ice, they are completely different, ballons, echarpes, jetes, they are all different and need friction.

Ballet is usually performed on a spot, and depends a lot of on the explosion of power off the ground, while ice skating is about gliding across a terrain. So only limited balletic movements can be adapted for the ice, eg. positions and leaps.

So I don't expect perfect balletic movements from any skaters.

Any other ladies tonight (except maybe Mai...) would have SAGGED at 3/4 of Zagitova's skate.

The worst I've seen is Osmond's Black Swan.....eeekkkkkk....

 

[Tolstoj]

Speaking of underscored / overscored i thought Elizaveta deserved something more on the GOEs.

She doesn't have the best skating skills, or the best transitions but the quality of her jumps was what you'd expect from Mishin's students, and she did the 3A (step-out but fully rotated), the TES could have been much higher.

I'm still thinking that she should do the 3A in the SP, because with only three elements a clean 3A can make the difference.

 

[madison]

Speaking of underscored / overscored i thought Elizaveta deserved something more on the GOEs.

She doesn't have the best skating skills, or the best transitions but the quality of her jumps were what you'd expect from Mishin's students, and she did the 3A (step-out but fully rotated), so the score was kinda low.

I always thought Liza has good skating skills, she gains speed effortless. She indeed doesn't have good transitions and good choreo.

 

[yume]

Clearly consistency is over rated.. Her PCS actually shrunk with consistency.

Agree. Mai is consistent, she rarely make mistakes, but even 65 she doesn't get that. Same with Satoko. She has been consistent for 3 seasons but she rarely hit 70 points. I wonder if she even get that once.
Consistency is the sixth component for some people only.

 

[whatif]

For Japanese ladies, it also does not help that their Fed can't decide who is the number one on the team. Once Japanese team leader decided, no matter who, I expect the PCS shot up by 2-3 points. None of the current crop had reached Miayhara's PCS yet because I suspect the international judges still regard her as the leader.

 

[IleK]

Come on guys, I don't really get you. Was I the only one rooting and cheering for every girl to do well and stay on her feet? This was a great compettition with how many? 6 or 7 almost perfect programs. We even saw an almost perfect 3A. All these girls deserved to be on the podium, I thought Mai did great but still room to be improved, she seems more cautious than last year and lacks the sparke but it's understandable when you skate under the pressure of getting on that 2 spots olympic team when there are 4 or more contenders. Elena and Liza skated their best LP in a long time. I was so happy for Liza but so sad to see that her effort wasn't enough. But they both have to do better because these is what it takes now to make an olympic team. So much has changed compared to 4 years ago. I just loved Wakaba, she is a fighter and I can see her making the olympic podium. She has two great programs. Marin is lovely on the ice, she is the most balletic of all the girls and it is a pleasure to watch her, I hope she will get better PCS in the future but I will not complain about that, I think she will get the soon, she is on the right track. What worries me are her jumps, I wish she could jump higher because I always have the impression that she is jumpnig with no flow in or out and that makes them look underrotated. IWas really sad for Gabby because she did well, didn't fall, made some little but costly mistakes, but the same as Liza, it wasn't enough. I don't think Gabby has the best programs this year, she had the best programs of her career last year and helped her to win that world medal. But this year, neither the Sp or the LP are what she needs. Alina is the youngest and can do some crazy things. She is also artistic enough for her age. She reminds me of other wonderkids like Julia and Liza at her first GP. I hope she stays enough in this sport to see developing more, because she has everything. I watch her and my heart aches for Yulia, Gracie and now, my favourite Anna. The happiness is sometimes too short for these girls. Thank you all, you made my day.

 

[Sam L]

Medvedeve is capable of balletic movements, but I don't think she really tried to do ballet. She is graceful and perfectly capable of performing a ballet.

Zagitova is doing Kitri of Don Quixote, and she caught the young, bright, sprightly persona very well. While she does have awkward angles at times, I suspect if she isn't on ice it would be easily corrected.

It's really difficult to perform balletic steps on ice, they are completely different, ballons, echarpes, jetes, they are all different and need friction.

Ballet is usually performed on a spot, and depends a lot of on the explosion of power off the ground, while ice skating is about gliding across a terrain. So only limited balletic movements can be adapted for the ice, eg. positions and leaps.

So I don't expect perfect balletic movements from any skaters.

Any other ladies tonight (except maybe Mai...) would have SAGGED at 3/4 of Zagitova's skate.

The worst I've seen is Osmond's Black Swan.....eeekkkkkk....

Skating is also about the explosion of power off the ice. But whilst in ballet you're pushing off your toes, in figure skating you're pushing off your toepicks. The biggest problem with judging figure skating through ballet eyes is that ballet is about line. It's about attaining that body position from head to toe which is aesthetically pleasing. My ballet teacher once said it doesn't matter what you're doing, sometimes you could be just standing on stage and attaining that balletic posture and position. Well in figure skating and especially at this level, you can't afford to do that since you need to pack your programs with elements so you can be competitive TES-wise. If you look at Ballet on Ice performances they don't need that so you can see them attaining these postures and positions longer and having a greater feel for music. That's impossible at this level.

Like I said before, Alina is selling the idea of a ballet dancer on ice. She's not a ballet dancer, she's a competitive figure skater. We all know that. But as far as the idea, the program, the fantasy of a ballet dancer on ice. The Black Swan on Ice, Kitri (Red Ballerina) on Ice, it works.