2017 GP Cup of China Ladies FS

[Aino]

Wakaba is hardly what I call an underscored skater. Very poor body line and stubby limbs. If I have to rank the Japanese ladies it would be Honda, Mihara... Miyahara………then her. FYI Zagitova is a phenomenon just like her compatriot who you probably also hate.

Stubby limbs... This kind of comment tells a lot of the person who is saying it.

 

[gravy]

I am laughing hard at all the defenders of Zagitova's PCS.

Talk about a hopeless cause.

Da.

I actually like Zagitova, but the delusions of her being underscored or the praise like she's the second coming of John Curry is pretty cute.

I take those posts with pile of salt and chuckle away. No use in engaging.

 

[koatcue]

What impressed me much at this event were Liz Tukt's dresses... Wow, I don't think I've ever seen her in so good costumes.

Her free program dress suits her so much!

 

[Tolstoj]

I would not be surprised if Wakaba started to seriously train her 3A after losing twice to Alina. She’s incredible strong, but Slina just has it over her in BV. I do think Wakaba’s PCS should’ve been higher. But even so, Alina had a < on her 2nd Lutz. If Wakaba wants to ever beat her, she will need something more to push her over the edge. Hopefully her PCS will rise at the GPF.

Yes she starts the free program with the 2a so that might be an hint, an the 3A could be a game changer but even with that she has still to skate clean the rest of the program.

Alina's BV for the FS is 66.01 at best (here there was an UR on the lutz), which is basically the same bv as Mao Asada's FS at Sochi.

While the BV for her SP is 34.97 which is higher than Mao's SP at Worlds 2014.

 

[Lily flowers]

Also, we may see 2 ladies doing quads in the Russian Nationals.

You think Anna will be ready by then? I hope so. Or is there another quad monster I don't know about?

 

[Mathman]

I have no quarrel with Alina's component scores. She had pretty good skating skills and satisfactory transitions. Her Presentation, Composition and Interpretation scores are in the mid-eights. The way the ISU is scoring this year, that's fine; she is as good in these areas as other skaters who score in the mid-eights. You can't blame the skater for competing in an era where the judges give out 9s and 10s to the very top.

By the way, Alina got her highest marks from the Canadian judge. I don't have any comment on that, but just saying...

 

[qwertyskates]

It's not that Zagitova doesn't deserve high PCS; I just believe that Wakaba deserved higher. I believe she had better timing and connection to the music and had more ice coverage. In my opinion, "being moved" is a part of what makes a program as far as the interpretation and performance are concerned in the components. And being emotionally moved doesn't necessarily mean drama. People can be moved by a program that is all about understated elegance and stillness like Lu Chen's 1996 Worlds free skate. In fact, I can do without all the forced drama in the tangos this year for the ladies.

Perhaps I look at singles skating through too much of an ice dancing lens, but for me, it's more difficult for a skater to be emotionally invested in a program but still deliver on all the elements. And this quality is increasingly rare in skating. It's become so technical now that I don't get an emotional performance from most of the ladies skaters. It's all about the quantity of choreography and transitions that the judges respond to rather than the quality and intention behind them. But you know, that's just my opinion.

Their programs are completely different in what they are trying to convey. Zagitova would be really off if she brings anything other than that spark and virtuoso which is what Kitri is about to her program. Higuchi's is a bond program and so she has a lot more room for dramatic expressions. Another like Lu Chen's is about elegance, I don't know the program but if that's what matters then it is. PCS should be awarded based on their context, if the skater fulfilled all the criteria that the judges look for, and not the preference of audiences. If we reward based on drama, then we will always get the same types of programs, and not something different. Eg THREE Turandots and Black Swans at the Olys....

If Hanyu can repeat Seimei I don't see the problem of repeating Don Quixote, and excelling at it at a higher level of perfection each time. It is a breath of fresh air, a rare program, and so difficult to interprete on ice.

I don't care about the haters, really. In the end, I agree with the judges.

 

[Purv]

Marin Honda--I'd much rather watch her than Zagitova--Honda has flow and line. Zagitova's too busy piling elements to ever complete an extension. Medved's got a bit of the same issue. It may be difficult, but it makes for ugly skating.
By the way why I have always an impression that when i watch zagitovas short and free , I watch the same step sequence. Whats more I feel like ve been watching zhenias stepseqs. they look the same

 

[Koralai]

I just want to peek in and say that I think Wakaba's freeskate is fantastic, and I'm so happy for how well she performed it here -- but has anyone noticed how in the middle of the program where she does her little "gunshot" movement, it looks like she's shooting the judges? I'm sure she didn't mean it like that; most choreographic accents are done facing the judges, but still... I can never see that moment without chuckling to myself.

As for Alina's program: you could hear the crowd collectively gasping, almost roaring, when she executed her jumps towards the end of the program. I can't recall the last time I've heard a crowd respond like that -- and not a home crowd, either. That alone tells me there is something special about her program. She and Higuchi were very close here, as they deserved to be; and both will, I'm sure, be looking forward to the rematch.

 

[Ophelia]

Zagitova still skates like a junior. Her movements are frenetic and sloppy, and she can't inhibit a performance fully. I don't think I saw a full extension from her. I actually prefer Med to her. Would hate for Zagitova to win the Olympic Gold and be held up as the present pinnacle of ladies figure skating.

Wakaba wuzrobbed. She is way more polished of a skater than Zagitova. The Japanese ladies are very refined in their skating.

 

[Seruleane]

Just sentimentally I am so happy that Lena made it to the podium. She was my favourite lady for so long and even though she is definitely not at her strongest, I still hope she will make it to the Olympics. She's a fighter and it's great to see her not giving up despite her struggles.

That being said, I'm still a bit sad for Mai. She has really grown on me during her senior years and that music during her FS final step sequence is just divine! I love the program and hope she isn't too sad. Out of all Japanese ladies, I definitely hope to see her at the Olympics with Wakaba, who has finally found some consistency and is looking absolutely great!

And of course happy for Alina. I imagine it is not easy going into your senior debut GP, when you are already crowned Russia's no 2 and expected to deliver at all times. And a great redemption for Marin after SC!

Such a great competition this time, the girls really brought it, the Olympic season is fierce.

This. I would love to see Lena at Olympics, though chances are slim. I'd also love to see Anna P and Maria S at Olympics from the Russian side (I'm assuming Evgenia and Alina already have plane tickets), and Wakaba, Mai, Marin and Satoko from Japan. There are too many deserving ladies. Maybe, if they couldn't represent their country, they could just skate under the Olympic Flag and represent themselves? I know it would never happen in a million years, but that would make me so happy.

 

[[email protected]]

There's no denying Alina's talent. In fact, I am impressed by her technical capabilities. But in this case, Wakaba delivered a better program than everyone.

That's just your point of view. For me Alina was better. The best Wakaba's performance was in Lombardia - it was skated with the soul then. Today it was still very good but it was more mechanical, I would say. There is an open discussion on whether Wakaba's pcs should be higher than Alina's whose ability to build up the energy with the crescendo at the final 30 seconds is nothing but exquisite. I don't think any program had anything like that in the history of figure skating. And this should be rewarded. So far here it boils down to: "we believe that Wakaba is better James Bond than Alina balerina" and Wakaba was faster - of course, she was because she had fewer transitions.

What no one seems to mention is that Wakaba was judged quite leniently in TES. Her combined GOE is the same as Alina's which I think is not right. One could argue whose jumps are better - Alina's flip is a masterpiece. But it is beyond any arguments that Alina is a better spinner by far and large - again their GOE is identical. And one more thing - I haven't had time to rewatch. But Alina did not have URs on a single Lz - she was given a carrot today. Wakaba consistently URed 3T in the combo. No carrot yesterday (and it was URed) - no today (I can't say - it may be OK - need to rewatch). But Wakaba just yesterday got ! on flip which she usually gets. What changed since yesterday - she improved her technique? No ! call.

All in all, a well deserved win by Zagitova. Whoever can match what she shows over and over again, welcome.

 

[Corwin]

Zagitova still skates like a junior. Her movements are frenetic and sloppy, and she can't inhibit a performance fully. I don't think I saw a full extension from her. I actually prefer Med to her. Would hate for Zagitova to win the Olympic Gold and be held up as the present pinnacle of ladies figure skating.

Wakaba wuzrobbed. She is way more polished of a skater than Zagitova. The Japanese ladies are very refined in their skating.

...

 

[MaiKatze]

Lena, your hair!! :hpull:

There is something about Zagitova. Sure she's not as mature as some of the others, but she's 15. Still, I already prefer her to Evgenia, and I see huge potential. Someone in this thread wrote about the lack of acting on her part and I agree. She just seems to be herself, and I find that refreshing. And I like her jumps better than Med's. So if it's close for the Olympic Gold I already have my favourite.

 

[qwertyskates]

As for Alina's program: you could hear the crowd collectively gasping, almost roaring, when she executed her jumps towards the end of the program. I can't recall the last time I've heard a crowd respond like that -- and not a home crowd, either. That alone tells me there is something special about her program. She and Higuchi were very close here, as they deserved to be; and both will, I'm sure, be looking forward to the rematch.

Thanks for reminding ...that was exactly how I felt about Zagi's program and delivery, I haven't seen such infectious exuberance, hope she brings that fireworks to the Olympics...wow....

 

[QueenOfTheRoad]

I liked both Wakaba and Zagitova. True, Wakaba looks more mature, but Zagitova has a special charisma. I think for her first senior year, she is doing great. I hope she will learn to be more "lay-back" and not in such a hurry to go from an element to the other. Carolina was also not the polished beauty she is nowadays. Give them time to grow! Both Wakaba and Zagitova have personality on ice, both can grow in the next four year to powerful champions. Both have now flaws. Some are in our eyes more to be damned, some are in the eyes of the judges. I don't see between them such a huge difference in quality (one has better this element, the other that one).

The most important thing is that i enjoyed both, which is hard in the era of endless ballads and Lalalands and similar suffering.

 

[draqq]

Their programs are completely different in what they are trying to convey. Zagitova would be really off if she brings anything other than that spark and virtuoso which is what Kitri is about to her program. Higuchi's is a bond program and so she has a lot more room for dramatic expressions. If we reward based on drama, then we will always get the same types of programs, and not something different. Eg THREE Turandots and Black Swans at the Olys....

If Hanyu can repeat Seimei I don't the problem of repeating Don Quixote, and excelling at it at a higher level of perfection each time. It is a breath of fresh air, a rare program, and so difficult to interprete on ice.

I don't care about the haters, really.

I think we're arguing different things. Drama doesn't necessarily mean being emotionally invested. I don't particularly care for drama in a program, so much as a skater's ability to be in tune with the music in timing and tone. Again, a program that's all about sophistication, elegance, and softness - like P/C's Moonlight Sonata this year - is perfectly fine without having drama. Same goes for Takahashi's cool Blues for Klooks, for instance.

It's true that Higuchi's Bond program has more room for dramatic expression, though I would also contend that Zagitova's music does have an emotional range as well, with the more somber section in the second footwork sequence. I think that Zagitova is very much in tune with music in the first minute or so, then it drops while she's doing all the jumps, and then she gets it back right near the end. Her expression was just one-dimensional to me compared to Wakaba.

 

[Ylyzybyth]

Really bummed I couldn't watch this live. It was such an amazing competition!
Liza- program was kind of "meh" in itself but her energy was nice and the jumps were verrrry nice. For the luvha gawd dem boots doh. Very distracting.

Marin- awww my heart! Such an elegant beautiful skater. I am so looking forward to seeing her evolve. Bright future for her.

Mai- I just love how fluid and smooth she is. Another beautiful skater. She has some innate musicality built in her.

Alina- I'm am rooting for her out of all the Russians. Her tech skills are so evident. Her program though a bit.... calculated I was thrilled she was clean. Still can't help but notice a lack of Eteri at this competition unless I am missing something.

Elena R- ah... she reminds me of those inflatable things they put in front of car dealerships that just whip and lash around. Those arms and her neck are just all over the place it's very distracting. Ahh I feel terrible saying that because she's obviously a great skater and somehow I DO enjoy her programs. Her attitude and love for skating really lights up the arena.

Wakaba has won me over 100% she is my no.1 in the world. She knows how to lay it down head to toe. That program is perfection. Why people feel the need to bring her body into it in a negative light is beyond me. I think her build makes her graceful AND solid at the same time. I can hardly hear her blades in the ice when she skates. She is a whole nother level.

Gabrielle- I actually kind of like her music for her program. It's almost like she went for the surprise factor because everyone thought she'd bring GLADIATOR RAWR and here it's like surprise! It's beautiful gladiator MFers! Sadly it's not working for her. With my headphones I could hear her say "why is it(the score) so low?" And I think she asked "what did I do wrong?" I don't think it's a gawd awful program I see she's trying to develop an elegance and musicality but damn, to compete with what we saw today you almost need to be on a not quite so human level!

All in all, great competition!

 

[David21]

Their programs are completely different in what they are trying to convey. Zagitova would be really off if she brings anything other than that spark and virtuoso which is what Kitri is about to her program. Higuchi's is a bond program and so she has a lot more room for dramatic expressions.

Yeah, their programs are completely different and the skaters have also different strengths and weaknesses. Under normal circumstances, I'd stilf prefer Higuchi in PCS but I could see why some people would disagree. But the things is, Zagitova's program is so completely unbalanced with no jumps in the first 2 minutes and 3 jump combos in a row that there is simply no question which of the two skaters deserves the higher component scores

 

[draqq]

Yeah, their programs are completely different and the skaters have also different strengths and weaknesses. Under normal circumstances, I'd stilf prefer Higuchi in PCS but I could see why some people would disagree. But the things is, Zagitova's program is so completely unbalanced with no jumps in the first 2 minutes and 3 jump combos in a row that there is simply no question which of the two skaters deserves the higher component scores

If Zagitova begins to win a lot (and I'm sure she will), we may see a lot more ladies skaters have this program layout in the future.