2014 Olympics Team Event Ladies Short Program

[Oreo]

thank you, I thought I was living in an alternate universe as I didn't hear the hate, either.

Me neither. I think they've been fair with all the skaters.

 

[ranjake]

Commentators from NBC prime time to live we're night and day stateside. Scott tried everything to belittle Julia. Tara and Johnny gave her nothing but respect. Scott tried to call out her lutz and then saw it on reply and had to sigh when he saw she was on the outside edge. America is at war with Oceania and has always been at war with Oceania!

You need to watch again. He didn't do any of that. He did offer some constructive criticism I thought was legit: "The axel is not her best jump; that's one thing she can work on" and then "vern' or whoever commented on her artistry and Scott said something like "She's great now- imagine how great she can be"- Scott and Sandra were extremely complimentary to Julia; and he said a Lutz I clearly thought did take off on the wrong edge was fine.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Fair enough. Maybe I jumped the gun. I remember praise for her spins but I guess I just felt they were rooting against her a little. Never been a Scott fan, at least as a commentator. I guess my take was that they were forcing themselves to say those things.

All negativities aside today was great. I didn't think I'd like the team event but its really caught me off guard. I love it! Im starting to think Julia is going to be the sweetheart that steals the team event and gets gold and is the main reason. She may be less likely to win an individual medal though. Caro was on today and if she can put a little more wow factor in I think she may seal the third spot on the podium. If someone spoils I'd hate to see Caro not medal. Does Italy have a chance at bronze?

Sorry to offend

 

[Dr. Jenn]

I agree with several posters who have argued that Julia's PCS were inflated (and have been increasingly so as the season has progressed, without any visible improvements), particularly in comparison to such skaters as Carolina and Mao, who, in my opinion, are simply in another league. That said, I commend her for doing a clean skate under such immense pressure, and feel that either she or Carolina would have been justified in placing first today (based on TES and PCS advantages, respectively). She is definitely a fierce competitor!

Besides the issues with her jumps (which I will not rehash here; others have provided a detailed analysis), my two main concerns with Julia are:

1) She does not complete her movements. I found this particularly problematic today when she was doing many of her flexibility moves - She would barely get her leg in the position before it flailed down. Certainly, her flexibility is the most impressive of the field, but I don't see evidence that she has the strength to support her flexibility. Both aspects are needed to really make the moves complete (and more impressive). To draw a parallel in the dance world, lots of people can kick their foot above their head; however, very few have the strength to hold it up there. It is the latter that is more impressive and unique, indicative of a stronger overall dancer.
2) While I give kudos to her choreographers this year, who have developed programs that hide her lack of expression, musicality, audience connection, and artistry (as another poster has mentioned, after 'the look' at the start of her FS, it is all business), I fear that she will become a bit of a one-trick pony, artistically. She handles solemn, introspective programs well, which I believe relates to her personality, based on interviews I have seen. However, I don't see her being able to handle a wide range of program 'types' (e.g., a strong, passionate tango; a fun, upbeat song; a sassy, flirty piece), which I believe will be her downfall in the future.

 

[sky_fly20]

It is very interesting because normally when a top 4/5 skater in the world upgrades his/her technical difficulty, like Wagner did when she added the 3flip+3toe to both her SP and LP, then PCS normally get a bump too, but not in Ashley's case. Wagner, like Kostner, is being pushed down internationally, so that the Russian teenagers can be pushed up. Standard home Olympics politicking at work here; nothing new. It will be very interesting to see what PCS Gracie Gold receives in her LP tomorrow in comparison to Lipnitskaya, especially if they both go clean.

Wagner didnt up her content
her 3-3 are twofooted, cheated or UR

and to make matters worst he hant kated a clean LP
and she placed 4th at nationals with Gracie as the new champ
of course her PCS will drop !

 

[Becki]

I agree with several posters who have argued that Julia's PCS were inflated (and have been increasingly so as the season has progressed, without any visible improvements), particularly in comparison to such skaters as Carolina and Mao, who, in my opinion, are simply in another league. That said, I commend her for doing a clean skate under such immense pressure, and feel that either she or Carolina would have been justified in placing first today (based on TES and PCS advantages, respectively). She is definitely a fierce competitor!

Besides the issues with her jumps (which I will not rehash here; others have provided a detailed analysis), my two main concerns with Julia are:

1) She does not complete her movements. I found this particularly problematic today when she was doing many of her flexibility moves - She would barely get her leg in the position before it flailed down. Certainly, her flexibility is the most impressive of the field, but I don't see evidence that she has the strength to support her flexibility. Both aspects are needed to really make the moves complete (and more impressive). To draw a parallel in the dance world, lots of people can kick their foot above their head; however, very few have the strength to hold it up there. It is the latter that is more impressive and unique, indicative of a stronger overall dancer.
2) While I give kudos to her choreographers this year, who have developed programs that hide her lack of expression, musicality, audience connection, and artistry (as another poster has mentioned, after 'the look' at the start of her FS, it is all business), I fear that she will become a bit of a one-trick pony, artistically. She handles solemn, introspective programs well, which I believe relates to her personality, based on interviews I have seen. However, I don't see her being able to handle a wide range of program 'types' (e.g., a strong, passionate tango; a fun, upbeat song; a sassy, flirty piece), which I believe will be her downfall in the future.

Yes! I realized Julia does not complete her movements and it bothers the hell outta me! She does her super flexible move for 1 sec max (might even be half a sec) and continues on with the rest of our routine. Would love it if she holds her positions a bit longer.

 

[sky_fly20]

1) She does not complete her movements. I found this particularly problematic today when she was doing many of her flexibility moves - She would barely get her leg in the position before it flailed down. Certainly, her flexibility is the most impressive of the field, but I don't see evidence that she has the strength to support her flexibility. Both aspects are needed to really make the moves complete (and more impressive). To draw a parallel in the dance world, lots of people can kick their foot above their head; however, very few have the strength to hold it up there. It is the latter that is more impressive and unique, indicative of a stronger overall dancer.
2) While I give kudos to her choreographers this year, who have developed programs that hide her lack of expression, musicality, audience connection, and artistry (as another poster has mentioned, after 'the look' at the start of her FS, it is all business), I fear that she will become a bit of a one-trick pony, artistically. She handles solemn, introspective programs well, which I believe relates to her personality, based on interviews I have seen. However, I don't see her being able to handle a wide range of program 'types' (e.g., a strong, passionate tango; a fun, upbeat song; a sassy, flirty piece), which I believe will be her downfall in the future.

what do you mean one trick pony all on sad introverted music ?
she has skated to Sabre Dance, Carmen, Kung Fu Panda

 

[sky_fly20]

Ukraine judges can basically be considered another Russian judge at this point.

Ukraine would find that offensive though

 

[sky_fly20]

You know what guys, the media who saw Julia live has been praising her big time. Nancy Aramour hardly a Russian bias, praised her jumps that they are taking of at high speed, and even a bit their height. Julia's jumps aren't as big as Kim's but she's also quite a bit smaller.... And Julia's speed. She didn't seem to think Julia was a jumper only.

I probably would have given it to Kostner or at least higher pcs to Kostner, but I think people are being unfair to Julia.

If it was so easy to win the Olympics at 15, how many actually do it. Some have but not many. By all accounts a big part of Julia's success is that she is an incredibly hard worker. You can see the improvements she's made. Comparing her to a wind up doll is unfair.

And I think she's developing into a beautiful skater.

a friend who has seen Julia skated live said she has good height on her jumps and good flow on her landings
they are not that small as posters here make it sound as they watch her on videos

 

[CarneAsada]

Ukraine would find that offensive though

Doesn't eastern Ukraine love everything to do with Russia and hate Ukrainian nationalism of any kind, though?

 

[Trewyn]

First time watching an alltime favourite of mine on olymic ice was pretty stressful! Phew.
But seriously. Ashley was robbed. What the hell was that score?? I hate that the judges are clearly dumping her, probably in favour of Gracie Gold. Her PCS was ridiculous. Seriously lowballed. No way she would have scored this low of this was say the Grand Prix. She should not have been behind Asada with a fall on a bloody double axel (third rotation was practically nonexistant) and an underrotated double loop. This has got to sound the alarm with Ashley, her team and the USFSA. I hope it fuels her to get that 3-3 clean because yes, there was a visible mistake on it now. (Rightfully behind Caro and Yulia).

Otoh Yulia's scores are already getting on my nerves. Okay, she's flexible, consistent, has nerves of steel and good spins. But her jumps are tiny, she rushes through her movements (definitely no Sasha Cohen or even Tara Lipinski) and she definitely looks like a junior. The crowd gave her a huge boost, so that helped her artistic score but still. Whoever is playing the prediction game - no way Yulia will be lower than silver in the individual event. Only Yu Na can beat her. Sadly.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Carolina's jumps were I always think the beginning of Ava Marie is Nutcracker Pas De Duex!

Julia's lutz looked clean on TV SLOW MOTION!! We just watched it over and over!! Looks bad on some gif on another thread. Now I'm more confused! Maybe I need sleep! She probably flutzed but on the tv review here it looks clean.

I must have been in a bad mood the first time I watched because the prime time coverage seemed unbiased..sorry i was wrong. My rink was extra cold so maybe that's why I was such a downer. Again....sorry

Even though Mao may beat my favorite I really hope she pulls it together for the individual. She really is fun to watch. She looked so sad to not deliver for her team and I felt for her. 8 triples would be a great remedy for the blues.

I thought Ashley skated very guarded and it showed....until she landed the 2a with zest and fire. She came alive after that but left quite a few points on the table early on. I'm afraid even clean she can't beat 66 in an Olympic field and will most likely stay around 65. I kept thinking she would implode. So glad she didn't.

 

[FlattFan]

Julia's SS is such a slap to all skaters in history.
She got 8.43 , Mao got 8.54, Carolina got 8.64.

How long did it take for Mao, Caro, and Yuna to get that kind of SS? Kim got 8.38 at last year World. It took Mao a decade to get this kind of SS. It took Carolina 15 years to get this kind of SS, and she's the undisputed SS queen.

SS is the new presentation mark. And all other components move with SS, so you can manipulate anyone's score anyway you want. This sport is dead!

 

[WeakAnkles]

Way too much overreaction in this thread and I doubt people are overreacting because they fear for the future of the sport (Julia is a hit with casual viewers). They just don't like the fact that Julia seems to be a bigger threat in the individual event than previously anticipated.

I am just old enough that I can remember a little about the pre-Nadia era in gymnastics (my favorite gymnast of the era was Nelli Kim). I also remember the post Tracy Austen era in tennis. In both cases, the nature of the individual sports changed and something was lost: maturity, a bit of grace and elegance, replaced by power and big tricks. But it is what it is.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

I agree with several posters who have argued that Julia's PCS were inflated (and have been increasingly so as the season has progressed, without any visible improvements), particularly in comparison to such skaters as Carolina and Mao, who, in my opinion, are simply in another league. That said, I commend her for doing a clean skate under such immense pressure, and feel that either she or Carolina would have been justified in placing first today (based on TES and PCS advantages, respectively). She is definitely a fierce competitor!

Besides the issues with her jumps (which I will not rehash here; others have provided a detailed analysis), my two main concerns with Julia are:

1) She does not complete her movements. I found this particularly problematic today when she was doing many of her flexibility moves - She would barely get her leg in the position before it flailed down. Certainly, her flexibility is the most impressive of the field, but I don't see evidence that she has the strength to support her flexibility. Both aspects are needed to really make the moves complete (and more impressive). To draw a parallel in the dance world, lots of people can kick their foot above their head; however, very few have the strength to hold it up there. It is the latter that is more impressive and unique, indicative of a stronger overall dancer.
2) While I give kudos to her choreographers this year, who have developed programs that hide her lack of expression, musicality, audience connection, and artistry (as another poster has mentioned, after 'the look' at the start of her FS, it is all business), I fear that she will become a bit of a one-trick pony, artistically. She handles solemn, introspective programs well, which I believe relates to her personality, based on interviews I have seen. However, I don't see her being able to handle a wide range of program 'types' (e.g., a strong, passionate tango; a fun, upbeat song; a sassy, flirty piece), which I believe will be her downfall in the future.

Regarding the flexibility, look to her long program. When it's part of a scored element she holds her free leg in a great extension for several seconds and her leg barely moves. The reason she does not hold it longer is because she does not have time to do so. It's the same thing in the short, she does not hold because it's not part of an element, only a transitional movement and she does not have the time. If you check out this performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKKgZvEiyp4 there's a couple of spirals she does hold for longer. I really believe that if a spiral was an element that she would be able to hold one for a lot longer, she clearly has the ability, just not the time. About not finishing movements in general: I think I see what you mean, but if that's true it doesn't take away anything from her performances for me personally or for many other people.

Regarding the second part of your post, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens next year. What type of music etc. But I realize you have a strong point. Would you agree with me that already impressive programs skated to, but not necessarily with the music, have been getting better and better all season? I realize now looking back at last year, and comparing her programs to this years', that she had some serious flaws. At the time I enjoyed watching them and loved her skating despite those flaws. Could we agree, perhaps, that her growth spurt, going through puberty and the injuries that she received because of those things, which resulted in uncharacteristically unstable jumps meant that she could not focus any real attention on artistry? Have you watched her junior worlds program to Romeo & Juliet from 2011-2012? Do you think she was better components wise to last year?

In many ways her skating is better now, but her jumps though they have slightly more height are missing a tiny bit of the stability that she had then. Also she seemed slightly happier. Maybe the struggles of last year and the pressure of home Olympics she needed to qualify for have taken away some of her joy not to mention the seriously weighty music she is skating to.

 

[Kittosuni]

So apparently wagner expected to get a score around 69. Haha i almost puked. If kaitlyn didnt skate so early and skated before or after ashley, ashley would have been sitting on 5th.

 

[yuki]

Julia's SS is such a slap to all skaters in history.
She got 8.43 , Mao got 8.54, Carolina got 8.64.

How long did it take for Mao, Caro, and Yuna to get that kind of SS? Kim got 8.38 at last year World. It took Mao a decade to get this kind of SS. It took Carolina 15 years to get this kind of SS, and she's the undisputed SS queen.

Yes, this is all getting a bit ridiculous and it's very obvious (if it wasn't before) they're setting her up as a clear threat for the OGM. I like Yulia and she's an amazing competitor, but I'm not sure how those PCS can be justified, both on a 1-to-10 scale and relative to her competitors.

 

[gnom]

I'm confused by people criticizing Julia's 2A :think: Someone even called it a "hot mess"? I see a jump that had next to no preparation, clean rotation, smooth landing with good speed coming out. Where's the "mess"? I didn't realize height was the be all and end all of jump quality.

The mess is her take-off technique namely her free leg position. Her left knee crosses the take-off leg nearly before leaving the ice which makes the jump so so tiny. IMO not worth a positive GOE of +1 / +2 which she received all across the board.

 

[zamboni step]

what do you mean one trick pony all on sad introverted music ?
she has skated to Sabre Dance, Carmen, Kung Fu Panda

I think they meant this year, which is true, it's good packaging using her introverted nature to match the music. It still shows a lack of diversity though.

Wagner didnt up her content
her 3-3 are twofooted, cheated or UR

and to make matters worst he hant kated a clean LP
and she placed 4th at nationals with Gracie as the new champ
of course her PCS will drop !

Upping your content has nothing to do with cleanness of the content. And Gracie hasn't skated a clean FS all year either, she never has, Wagner came close a few times this year and did a few times last year.

Julia's SS is such a slap to all skaters in history.
She got 8.43 , Mao got 8.54, Carolina got 8.64.

How long did it take for Mao, Caro, and Yuna to get that kind of SS? Kim got 8.38 at last year World. It took Mao a decade to get this kind of SS. It took Carolina 15 years to get this kind of SS, and she's the undisputed SS queen.

SS is the new presentation mark. And all other components move with SS, so you can manipulate anyone's score anyway you want. This sport is dead!

This was ridiculous, what's the point in even working on your SS if you're just going to be thrown up there with the rest anyway? I wouldn't even have her at 30 in PCS here. There is some hope, she skated clean at Skate Canada and the GPF and only got 66, but a medal here could boost her anyway This is actually a little scary to think about.

 

[sky_fly20]

Upping your content has nothing to do with cleanness of the content. And Gracie hasn't skated a clean FS all year either, she never has, Wagner came close a few times this year and did a few times last year.

Wagner's FS performance/cleanliness has been dropping since the TEB
she will get lower PCS than Gracie