Ladies Tech calls in Russia versus Canada

4everchan · Oct 31, 2017

moriel said:
Well, when we speak of russians, people usually blame anything even remotely resembling it - all goes, a russian sounding name, the fact the judge is from an ex soviet country and so on. I kinda see the logic: if Polish and Ukranian judges are 100% pro russian just because ex-Soviet, ofc a french speaking judge will support fellow french speaking skaters
Get used to it, this forum is weird hehe

that's why the French tech Panel will definitely give Piper and Paul Poirier all level four next time... BTW Patrick speaks French too (unlike any of our ladies) so he should get a boost too.... and should get one from Chinese tech panel too

ugh.... I wonder if the French judge in Salt Lake City really favoured Canada

both our competitors had French surnames LOL

Grin · Oct 31, 2017

beki said:
I can't really tell if she stays on the flat or switches back to the inside at the last second, but what I mostly notice is that she does that thing of picking with the whole blade instead of the toe pick. Lutzberger?

Flutzberger )

Kayyyn · Oct 31, 2017

Why everyone acting like it’s a new news canada start low balling skaters like 3 seasons ago even if they not rivals and isu doing nothing about it R.I.P. marin and sotskova olympic season

Grin · Oct 31, 2017

Kayyyn said:
Why everyone acting like it’s a new news canada start low balling skaters like 3 seasons ago even if they not rivals and isu doing nothing about it R.I.P. marin and sotskova olympic season

Low balling and inflating favorites at the same time is just beyond the good and evil

moriel · Oct 31, 2017

4everchan said:
that's why the French tech Panel will definitely give Piper and Paul Poirier all level four next time... BTW Patrick speaks French too (unlike any of our ladies) so he should get a boost too.... and should get one from Chinese tech panel too

ugh.... I wonder if the French judge in Salt Lake City really favoured Canada
both our competitors had French surnames LOL

Yep. But then, Patrick has an asian last name. Does that mean that all the asian judges favor him too?
OMG we figured it out =D

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 31, 2017

Kayyyn said:
Why everyone acting like it’s a new news canada start low balling skaters like 3 seasons ago even if they not rivals and isu doing nothing about it R.I.P. marin and sotskova olympic season

Sotskova came 2nd and has a good shot to make the final and the Olympics.

Honda royally messed up her short program which buried her. Did Canadians force her to fall in her UR combo, single her axel, stumble on her footwork, and not hold her spin positions long enough? She was the one wearing the skates, so to speak.

I suppose there's outcry at not giving her sufficient PCS to climb to bronze, but the reality is, it was Marin who likely ruined her own chances at the final with her own technical errors and lost momentum against the other Japanese ladies. She also had a chance to gain momentum at US Classic but doubled her salchow instead of a clean skate. These are all things she is in control of and has nothing to do with the country she is in.

Marin/Maria still controls her own fate for Japanese/Russian Nationals. So I can hardly see how their Olympics are totally sunk after Skate Canada (not that I would bet on Honda over an on-point Mihara/Higuchi/Miyahara anyway).

Tulipstar · Oct 31, 2017

4everchan said:
that's why the French tech Panel will definitely give Piper and Paul Poirier all level four next time... BTW Patrick speaks French too (unlike any of our ladies) so he should get a boost too.... and should get one from Chinese tech panel too

ugh.... I wonder if the French judge in Salt Lake City really favoured Canada
both our competitors had French surnames LOL

I agree. It sounds about as ridiculous as that theory that Europeans would all favour each other just because their countries belong (or partly belong) to the same continent.

Globetrotter · Oct 31, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Sotskova came 2nd and has a good shot to make the final and the Olympics.

Honda royally messed up her short program which buried her. Did Canadians force her to fall in her UR combo, single her axel, stumble on her footwork, and not hold her spin positions long enough? She was the one wearing the skates, so to speak.

I suppose there's outcry at not giving her sufficient PCS to climb to bronze, but the reality is, it was Marin who likely ruined her own chances at the final with her own technical errors and lost momentum against the other Japanese ladies. She also had a chance to gain momentum at US Classic but doubled her salchow instead of a clean skate. These are all things she is in control of and has nothing to do with the country she is in.

Marin/Maria still controls her own fate for Japanese/Russian Nationals. So I can hardly see how their Olympics are totally sunk after Skate Canada (not that I would bet on Honda over an on-point Mihara/Higuchi/Miyahara anyway).

I think nobody is complaining about Honda not getting on the podium. Folks can tell she messed up big in her SP. the unhappiness was more the case where what was seen being put out by her in the overall performance was lowballed in PCS which didn't gel with what was perceived as deserving. We get it that judging of PCS inevitably is influenced by reputation and skate order but that doesn't mean we have to agree it is the right way to score.

OS · Oct 31, 2017

Tulipstar said:
I agree. It sounds about as ridiculous as that theory that Europeans would all favour each other just because their countries belong (or partly belong) to the same continent.

Nahh ... hardly ridiculous when European Championships has generally the biggest inflation among all elite events, and in the past 5 years resulted the greatest inflation among the European champions at world championships, because they make majority judgng makeup while results in deflation for everyone else.

Hardly ridiculous, when the evidence present itself. You can whine all you like, but it is an edge from gloating.

The difference between GP and WC is, GPs host pick their own judges that favours their own skaters (with ISU's blessing and guidance), while at WCs, ISU pick their own judges to favour their own agendas. No difference, equally biased, and fishy. As long they don't allow true random selection, and separate judging selection from federation interests, it will never change.

Mathman · Oct 31, 2017

Welcome to the forum, Kayyyn. Thanks for joining us. :yes:

Mathman · Oct 31, 2017

I, for one, will be glad when Cup of China starts.

gravy · Oct 31, 2017

Mathman said:
I, for one, will be glad when Cup of China starts.

Praise be to Saint Michelle Kwan. :pray:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 31, 2017

Mathman said:
I, for one, will be glad when Cup of China starts.

Likewise.

Really, they should move every GP competition to non-skating countries with tech panels/judges from obscure countries.

Or host GPs in the big 6 countries but forbid any home skaters from competing there. :biggrin:

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 31, 2017

Globetrotter said:
I think nobody is complaining about Honda not getting on the podium. Folks can tell she messed up big in her SP. the unhappiness was more the case where what was seen being put out by her in the overall performance was lowballed in PCS which didn't gel with what was perceived as deserving. We get it that judging of PCS inevitably is influenced by reputation and skate order but that doesn't mean we have to agree it is the right way to score.

Oh I agree that it isn't a great way to score. But it's not like Skate Canada is the first ever competition that has had conservative PCS for skaters (especially non-established ones) who were well back after the SP and in an earlier flight.

And like I said, there is the possibility that the judges simply did not like her skate.

Sam-Skwantch · Oct 31, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Likewise.

Really, they should move every GP competition to non-skating countries with tech panels/judges from obscure countries.

Or host GPs in the big 6 countries but forbid any home skaters from competing there.

What would be smart is if the host nation only organized the event for hosting purposes. Let the ISU determine via rankings who goes where. No home judges allowed etc...

There is no acceptable reason I can see to allow a skater or team benefitting from skating at home year after year.

rain · Oct 31, 2017

Mathman said:
That's a great point, and I think it applies to all of the Grand Prix events and explains some of the perceived home cooking. Every Grand Prix host sends there best to their own event. Then they try to select international skaters who will be the least threat to the homies, within the ISU regulations.

The seeding of these events helps as well — which is entirely and economic decision. For legitimacy and thus dollars, they want as many of the best skaters as possible at the GPF. They do not want them knocking each other out at NHK, or Cup of France. So Osmond is not going to meet up with Medvedeva or Daleman this season until later. Last season where V/M and P/C met in the grand prix before the final was an anomaly due to V/M's time off, and thus their lack of ranking.

And you can't blame the countries for wanting as many of their stars skating at home as possible either. They want to fill those seats and as much as possible and they want the revenue that comes with it.

OS · Oct 31, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Likewise.

Really, they should move every GP competition to non-skating countries with tech panels/judges from obscure countries.

Or host GPs in the big 6 countries but forbid any home skaters from competing there.

The thing about Kaetlyn's mark is the judges might have subconsciously measured her against Evegenia at Rostelecom cup who just received 150 with a fall, that is why her marks seem to be on the outlier from the rest of the event. Whereas Marin's underscore from the beginning had an overall deflation effect on the rest of the field, which made the gap even wider.

Miss Ice · Oct 31, 2017

Globetrotter said:
I think nobody is complaining about Honda not getting on the podium. Folks can tell she messed up big in her SP. the unhappiness was more the case where what was seen being put out by her in the overall performance was lowballed in PCS which didn't gel with what was perceived as deserving. We get it that judging of PCS inevitably is influenced by reputation and skate order but that doesn't mean we have to agree it is the right way to score.

Despite this, Marin had the best FS of the night. What she did deserve was getting that small Gold medal for FS. Podium finish or not, small medals DO matter. It is extremely disheartening for skaters when they skate the best program of the night and STILL do not get the placement they deserve. Even if we talk about the podium, if Marin had 6 more points in the FS, she would have been on the podium. What we have to talk about is why Ashely's PCS were so high for such a messy program, while Marin's got lowballed. Hence, with this PCS "adjusting", podium was out of her contention.

xeyra · Oct 31, 2017

Miss Ice said:
Despite this, Marin had the best FS of the night. What she did deserve was getting that small Gold medal for FS. Podium finish or not, small medals DO matter. It is extremely disheartening for skaters when they skate the best program of the night and STILL do not get the placement they deserve. Even if we talk about the podium, if Marin had 6 more points in the FS, she would have been on the podium. What we have to talk about is why Ashely's PCS were so high for such a messy program, while Marin's got lowballed. Hence, with this PCS "adjusting", podium was out of her contention.

You don't actually get small gold medals at the Grand Prix, though. Unless you're talking figuratively and not about actual small medals, in which case sorry! And yeah, Marin was robbed in PCS due to a variety of factors, the biggest of all possibly due to having been first in the first group. Sadly, skating order seems to play too great a role in PCS and GOE attribution.

Sam-Skwantch · Oct 31, 2017

xeyra said:
You don't actually get small gold medals at the Grand Prix, though. Unless you're talking figuratively and not about actual small medals, in which case sorry! And yeah, Marin was robbed in PCS due to a variety of factors, the biggest of all possibly due to having been first in the first group. Sadly, skating order seems to play too great a role in PCS and GOE attribution.

Using a reverse system of the world rankings to assign start order seems like a bad idea to me then. I think this will continue to occur. Sort of gives a perceivable impression that the judges are looking at numbers instead of the ice so to speak :disapp:

Ladies Tech calls in Russia versus Canada

4everchan

Grin

Kayyyn

Grin

moriel

CanadianSkaterGuy

Tulipstar

Globetrotter

OS

Sedated by Modonium

Mathman

Mathman

gravy

¿No ven quién soy yo?

CanadianSkaterGuy

CanadianSkaterGuy

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

rain

OS

Sedated by Modonium

Miss Ice

Let the sky fall~

xeyra

Constant state

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

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