2014 Cup of China Ladies Short Program 11/07

[OS]

I'm not sure if it's a perfect comparison since they didn't have the 1.1x multiplier for jumps in the second half then. Plus she only did a 3loop, while Liza and Yulia did lutz and flip, respectively.

But PCS seems high in general. Not just for Russian skaters.

Fair point, but the 3lz and 3loop is only 0.9 apart, 3flip 0.7 apart and Carolina can easily compensate that with greater GOEs and vastly superior PCS. Not sure how much the 1.1 multiplier works out, another half point bonus? If you rate them against Carolina, they'd be lucky to clear 60, 61 on relative terms even with slightly greater tech content.

 

[Alba]

Okay but if it is based on actual history, then how is it biased? Isn't it sad for the sport when a knowledgeable fan such as yourself can give up on reasoning on why the score are the way they are? To the point of suppressing reasonable discussions on scoring discrepancies?

It's the history of what you and others might see and read, but we do not all agree. I think you are aware about that.
I'm all for reasonable discussions, but I do not see reasonable when you consistly pick up on particular skaters and countries. When that becomes the issue than the discussion is dead for me, because as far as I'm concerned that's double standarts and it smells a lot of hypocrisy.

I can go on for days and show you all the discrepancies, for all the skaters - well for many of them anyway - from different countries and disciplines though. But what's the point on going on and on with that kind of discussion? You talk about Carolina, but she was one of the most overscored skaters in the history of this sport. Even Yuna and Mao (which I adore) were overscored during their career. So, what are we talking about?!
I get bored and pretty fed up. I give my opinion and that's it. I'm not interested to play the mini-me judge and fight over it.

In any case I only brought up the topic in reply to another poster, if you don't like it, I respect it, so I discuss them here.

It's not about liking or not. I left this topic hours ago because it was becoming toxic and I knew it well in advance.
I didn't even have to wait and see them skate to know how this will end. So to find yet the same discussion in another thread I thought it was a bit too much.
I came here now, because I saw Canadiansakterguy had wrote a comment and he is someone I like to read.
So, I saw your comment and I thought I should reply to you because maybe I was a bit rude to you with that comment.

Few hours sleep and a bit tired. I do apologise again.

 

[makaihime]

Congratulations to the top 3 for their amazing performances! Lovely programs and great execution from the two Russian ladies So happy for Kanako, lets hope they can all bring it tomorrow too

Li's was also lovely though too bad about the fall. Her program might be a bit too generic but I think she could make it work.

 

[Mrs. P]

Fair point, but the 3lz and 3loop is only 0.9 apart, 3flip 0.7 apart and Carolina can easily compensate that with greater GOEs and vastly superior PCS. Not sure how much the 1.1 multiplier works out, another half point bonus? If you rate them against Carolina, they'd be lucky to clear 60, 61 on relative terms even with slightly greater tech content.

Still, it's really hard to compare scores two years apart. Maybe if Carolina was competing now she'd get those type of scores too? Or if Yulia and Liza were doing those programs in 2012, their scores would have been lower.

 

[Sabrina]

It bugs me, but all "good" ladies did 3T3T??? is it because that (IMO, stupid) Lutz edge call?
I loved Julia! She was way ahead of the pack. Liza is OK, lovely, good jumps, but her program steps/spins are nowhere close to Julia. The order is quite OK, only I'd squeeze Gabrielle Daleman on 3rd, ahead of Kanaki.
I wonder what spooked both ladies and men in this China Open

 

[jenaj]

Is Polina going through a growth spurt now? She's already 164cm before growth spurt and she'll probably end up being as tall as Carolina.
Except for the last 3 skates, The ladies's SP looks like a skating show at a local mall in Madagascar. I'm really sold on Yulia now. Purposeful choreographic sequence, out-of-the-world spins and overall clean landings. There's really no hope of stopping the Russian skaters at the moment. Btw, the filming doesn't seem to do most skaters justic.

I doubt if she will be growing much taller at age 16.

 

[andyjo24]

Is Polina going through a growth spurt now? She's already 164cm before growth spurt and she'll probably end up being as tall as Carolina.
Except for the last 3 skates, The ladies's SP looks like a skating show at a local mall in Madagascar. I'm really sold on Yulia now. Purposeful choreographic sequence, out-of-the-world spins and overall clean landings. There's really no hope of stopping the Russian skaters at the moment. Btw, the filming doesn't seem to do most skaters justic.

164 cm was her height last year. If you look at her ISU page, her height has been updated to 167 cm. She is still growing and may even surpass Kostner's height, which may be a big problem..

 

[Alba]

164 cm was her height last year. If you look at her ISU page, her height has been updated to 167 cm. She is still growing and may even surpass Kostner's height, which may be a big problem..

How tall is Kostner?

 

[andyjo24]

How tall is Kostner?

According to the ISU page, she's 169 cm.

 

[Alba]

According to the ISU page, she's 169 cm.

Hummm Polina might actually surpass her. It all depends though when the growing will stop.
She might grow now and done with it, in terms of height at least.

 

[OS]

It's the history of what you and others might see and read, but we do not all agree. I think you are aware about that.
I'm all for reasonable discussions, but I do not see reasonable when you consistly pick up on particular skaters and countries. When that becomes the issue than the discussion is dead for me, because as far as I'm concerned that's double standards and it smells a lot of hypocrisy.

Exactly why am I double standards when I have always point out unreasonable high scores regardless of whatever country they are from?

You may feel some how I picked on Russians unreasonably, yet are you denying the Russian skaters did not benefit from unreasonable inflation last year through out the season amidst great controversies all the way to European Championships and then finally Sochi? Inflation happens when judges give certain skaters too much credit, and it result in a field wide inflation on relative terms. So the fact there's such a big inflation over last year vastly support my case than not.

 

[minze]

Please don't kill me Yulia's fans but she was a bit over scored the judges are going crazy with her scores. At the beginning of the season last year she got a 66 for a program that had lutz. Now she is almost breaking the 70 mark with 3t3t. Also, I think she is impressive and the one to beat, but if we compare the one's to beat from the last quad (Mao and Yuna) just making a point the judges did not award them with high presentation scores like that. I know I know we cannot compare scores from 8 year ago, but we can put it in perspective.

Also, you mean to tell me that her SP here was comparable to what The Queen herself Yuna Kim did at 2013 worlds when she got a dubious call on her flip. Not and they almost got the same score.

PCS scores are becoming too subjective and it is not good for the score... The moment Yulia's PCS scores started getting too close to the top two skaters in the world last season it was worry some.

This is not attack against Yulia, I just don't understand. And this is coming from a person who would not mind seeing a Russian sweep at worlds.:think:

 

[minze]

Exactly why am I double standards when I have always point out unreasonable high scores regardless of whatever country they are from?

You may feel some how I picked on Russians unreasonably, yet are you denying the Russian skaters did not benefit from unreasonable inflation last year through out the season amidst great controversies all the way to European Championships and then finally Sochi? Inflation happens when judges give certain skaters too much credit, and it result in a field wide inflation on relative terms. So the fact there's such a big inflation over last year vastly support my case than not.

@os168 I am starting to agree with you more and more.

 

[Alba]

You may feel some how I picked on Russians unreasonably,.

I do not feel, I know. Because you do that consistently. And it's not because it's unreasonable, you might very well be right, but when you pick on one, always, then I'm sorry, but the issue is not because you want fair judging in FS.
You want fair judging, or wat you see as fair, for those you might not like, or towards a particular country, and the rest of the scoring is fine apparently. That's when the discussion ends for me.

yet are you denying the Russian skaters did not benefit from unreasonable inflation last year through out the season amidst great controversies all the way to European Championships and then finally Sochi? Inflation happens when judges give certain skaters too much credit, and it result in a field wide inflation on relative terms. So the fact there's such a big inflation over last year vastly support my case than not

The inflation has been going on for years, even in Vancouver. Strange that you, or others, woke up last year.
That my friend vastly support my case as well.

Let's leave it here os168, and move on.


@ Minze2001
I agree about the PCS scores . It's not new, we've discussed this issue many times in this forum.
However, many started worrying about that since Vancouver. The pattern was there for all to see.

 

[MalAssada]

I don't know why, but Yulia's dress reminds me of an early 1900's bathing suit I was hoping she could wear something like Cohen's Moonlight Sonata dress, the color would reflect the grey look of a megapolis, the cloudy weather... makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[Ophelia]

Her costume looks like Where's Waldo. Maybe her Juliet will be better.

 

[Alba]

shes playing up the child element.

Or she simply like that outfit. https://pp.vk.me/c624224/v624224194/8130/PbhyHOJtbDc.jpg

I don't know why, but Yulia's dress reminds me of an early 1900's bathing suit

Me too, but I love it. However, I don't think is related to the story.

 

[OS]

@os168 I am starting to agree with you more and more.

Well isn't that a sign of the apocalypse?

 

[bartlebooth]

I don't know why, but Yulia's dress reminds me of an early 1900's bathing suit I was hoping she could wear something like Cohen's Moonlight Sonata dress, the color would reflect the grey look of a megapolis, the cloudy weather... makes a lot more sense to me.

Very "Death in Venice"

 

[thoakun]

I didn't understand why people referred to Olga Korbut but when I saw Julia, she really screamed Olga to me. Both of them captured hearts with their playful charm and their performances shine with childlike delight.