2023 Cup of China Men's Short Program

[TontoK]

Lots of two-foot skating by Shoma and the opening jump was a 3F. 3/4 prerotation + 1/4 underrotation.

You're not the only one who questions that jump.

I don't even think it's a true flip. It's a "Morisi-style" flip-ish jump, and when they eventually call him on it, as they eventually called Morisi, there won't be enough tissues in the world to address the fan impact.

He still should have won the SP, but they're propping him up unnecessarily.

https://twitter.com/SkatingScores/status/1723013776167874972

 

[moonvine]

Oh no....the men menned.

 

[labgoat]

it's because she's as sweet as them (probably more)

 

[labgoat]

I can't decide if I love or hate this costume... it reminds me of something other than The Matrix

Willy Wonka or Edward Scissorhands

 

[moonvine]

Shaidorov! With small bronze at least! hopefully no UR nonsense here! Go, kiddo! Go!

Why, why did I succum to peer pressure and moved him into 5th from 4th in my predictions?

edit: Actually, I didn't. Well, at least I feel vindicated after short. Lol.

No small bronze at GP Only ISU Championships (4CCs and Worlds).

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The flip probably shouldn't have gotten the GOE it did. Then again, if Ilia gets higher PCS than he deserves, why not give Shoma higher GOE.

Shoma's opening jump definitely should not have received that kind of GOE. The kicker is that if they'd just scored accurately, Shoma would still be ahead by at least 7 or so points. But, they needed to pile on the points for Shoma, apparently. I don't know what the tech panel is there for, if they aren't going to review sketchy landings. Mark Hanretty called the error immediately, but nothing was taken off. On replay, Hanretty noted the obvious error again, but softened his observation, as Mark tries to be so nice and pleasant to everyone. The tech panel were either blind too, or scared of reversing the judges' huge GOE gifts.

The thing about PCS is that PCS is so manipulated across the board, and it can be excused as subjective [of course, PCS scoring should not be given that excuse, if only they knew how to judge performance abilities]. At any given event, many PCS scores are off-base, and make no sense, other than as a handy tool for the judges to manage placements.

 

[Ruthypegs]

Shomaaaa!

Are those normal pants he's wearing? What happened to his valour pants?!

Anyway on Mikhail S, who's looking pretty sharp in that costume!

what are valour pants? Do you need to be brave to wear them?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Willy Wonka or Edward Scissorhands

I can't readily locate @figureskatingandrainbows' original comment about Mikhail's costume being reminiscent of something other than The Matrix. But your suggests are on target @labgoat.

Most likely, Mikhail and his costume designer modified the coat because he could not go full-on Neo/ Keanu long overcoat, and still be able to land quads! At least, some of Neo's outfit design elements were utilized.

Maybe Mikhail should add in some of the special effect slo-mo back-leaning moves Neo did to dodge bullets!

 

[Ruthypegs]

He does. He lost weight while having a hip replacement a few months back.

You're right, he does - I spotted him in Angers last week, and he looks really trim, very youthful and very healthy - my husband couldn't believe it was the same man he'd seen on TV.

 

[lariko]

I can't readily locate @figureskatingandrainbows' original comment about Mikhail's costume being reminiscent of something other than The Matrix. But your suggests are on target @labgoat.

Most likely, Mikhail and his costume designer modified the coat because he could not go full-on Neo/ Keanu long overcoat, and still be able to land quads! At least, some of Neo's outfit design elements were utilized.

Maybe Mikhail should add in some of the special effect slo-mo back-leaning moves Neo did to dodge bullets!

I think black+dark green=Matrix is basically like yellow=La-La Land

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

You're not the only one who questions that jump.

I don't even think it's a true flip. It's a "Morisi-style" flip-ish jump, and when they eventually call him on it, as they eventually called Morisi, there won't be enough tissues in the world to address the fan impact.

He still should have won the SP, but they're propping him up unnecessarily.

https://twitter.com/SkatingScores/status/1723013776167874972

Yep, I love the Skating Scores guy for re-posting this video, originated by another skating fan. The Skating Scores guy makes absolute, intelligent sense. He's a former U.S. men's competitor (whose name escapes me). He's also very smart academically, so he knows his stuff.

I bet the media at CoC are not questioning the judges' overblown GOE for that element! The sport is devoid of credibility, but what else is new(s).

 

[DancingCactus]

@BlissfulSynergy
I think PCS are easier to manipulate than GOE, since GOE are at least tied to a particular element that can be assessed and not to something as nebulous as "performance". But I think for example in the heyday of the Eteri boom, her skaters' GOE were as blatantly inflated as their PCS . So I'm not surprised if this also happens to other skaters. And it's especially annoying if a skater would have won regardless, like Shoma here.

Also, I love Shoma, but some of his movements didn't look as crisp as we're used to from him (one butterfly I think it was looked noodly). But it's still early in the season for him, so hopefully he'll refine them. Also, this is complaining on a very high level xd

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think black+dark green=Matrix is basically like yellow=La-La Land

BTW, I just discovered if I tap on the arrow by quoted poster's name, it will take me to the page where their original comment is located. Always learning something new. LOL!

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think PCS are easier to manipulate than GOE, since GOE are at least tied to a particular element that can be assessed and not to something as nebulous as "performance".

Yep, that's exactly what I referenced in my response to your post.

 

[lariko]

It's a matter of perception. People piled on Malinin in France for a silly tumble, arguing how Adam was superior because of that, but everyone ignores here that Adam lost combo completely through a fall in China in the short, versus Shaidorov who performed all 3 elements, and performed elements where equivalent. But apparently Uno's flutz is a bigger deal, despite accurate placement in the first place.

 

[DancingCactus]

Yeah, Adam lost the combo, but you can't convince me that he was inferior to Shaidorov just because Shaidorov didn't have a fall. I mean, many people here seem to appreciate his skating, but I don't get it.

 

[icewhite]

Yeah, Adam lost the combo, but you can't convince me that he was inferior to Shaidorov just because Shaidorov didn't have a fall. I mean, many people here seem to appreciate his skating, but I don't get it.

I think Shaidorov's programs work well for him and they made an effort with them. Compared to many skaters he's quite entertaining and decent in PCS. But then there are skaters coming on the ice like Shoma, Yuma, Adam or Jimmy, actually, and you can see the difference so clearly.

 

[TontoK]

Yeah, Adam lost the combo, but you can't convince me that he was inferior to Shaidorov just because Shaidorov didn't have a fall. I mean, many people here seem to appreciate his skating, but I don't get it.

My respect for Shaidorov is not based on his "as-is condition." (I hope that translates)

He's a young skater, first year on the GP. A long way to go before he's a major championship podium contender. He's at the phase where he's growing and learning.

But, here's the thing. All young seniors have to prove themselves, and he's actually making the attempt. He's making us notice him, making us consider his prospects... he's making us talk about him, because he's delivering difficult and clean-ish programs. He's making the judges place him higher than they "should" because he's holding his nerves while his immediate peers are not.

That's admirable, and it speaks well to what we might hope for in the coming seasons.

 

[lariko]

Yeah, Adam lost the combo, but you can't convince me that he was inferior to Shaidorov just because Shaidorov didn't have a fall. I mean, many people here seem to appreciate his skating, but I don't get it.

My point is that either math works for all or stop pretending that scores are just math. When judgment is made erratically this way, it's destroying the credibility of scoring.

It can’t be 'oh, it's just math, accept it' for one skater and the 'he's genius, and adorable, and have soft knees so screw math!' the other. That second position is what leads to manipulation of GoE and PCS, and it is slippery slope.

If they are not calling Uno's jumps, they shouldn't have called Shaidorov's either, where his maybe q has suddenly became a UR. And, yes, Shaidorov may not have as soft knees as some others, but his transitions in and out of elements and his performance are among the best this season.

As in, objectively, he performs. It's subjective if you like his brand of artistism or not. But as far as math is concerned, performance is there. It is present during his skate.

So, in the world of fair scoring, where reputation, nationality and ethnicity didn't play a role, Shaidorov should have been 2nd or 3rd in Canada and won small silver in China just now.

It shouldn't matter how much someone likes Adam personally overall, it should matter that he has -1 on combo which is the highest scoring element out of 7 in the short program in this specific competition. It's not like he dropped on 3A. He lost a combo in the second half of the program, so none of his other jumping passes had a chance to bonus. Because of the way short is scored, a loss of combo is a negative 1 to the score on top of having only 6 elements, not 7. It's a really bad error.

 

[apgold]

Interrupting the scoring debates to say I really enjoyed Boyang's SP and the almost Yuzu like reception he got from the Chinese audience with all of the stuffies. He seemed genuinely happy to be skating in his home country and I think that helped bring out a good performance. I also like seeing him w/Brian in the KnC, I hope this coaching situation is working well for him being away from home.

I somehow missed the memo that he was skating to Ultravox's "Vienna" since I didn't watch his SP last weekend (nor from Shanghai Cup or ACI), and was pleasantly surprised that another "new wave" favorite from my childhood is getting airplay in figure skating (along with the original "No More I Love You's" from G/P's RD). I think Joey Russell choregraphed this, and I'm all for these unexpected song choices. Now about the Ed Sheeran music in the FS...