- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
Yeesh, rewatching all of these SP's again, Misha Ge should have WON this competition in the end.
:thumbsup: I like you more and more every day BoP
Yeesh, rewatching all of these SP's again, Misha Ge should have WON this competition in the end.
And Aesthetics's view is from a person who have watched these skaters LIVE, not through video and youtube clips.It may seem like a funny joke to you but I wasn't joking. My appreciation of Han Yan's skills is not based on a single competition (CoC in this case), but on my observation in time. I respectfully disagree about Kovtun having better character than Yan, and respectfully disagree about Hanyu being an artistic skater like Takahashi. While his presentation is much improved, I wouldn't compare him to Takahashi just yet.
And Aesthetics's view is from a person who have watched these skaters LIVE, not through video and youtube clips.
I'd always thought that Han Yan's jumps were high until posters who had seen him LIVE several times said that, NO. Han Yan's jumps are "far across the ice" but not very high. It's understandable because he jumps so far, the height of the jumps might be sacrificed a bit.
Until you have seen them LIVE, all the conclusion about their speed and the high of their jumps, ice presence and their control of the blades are just your subjective opinion though video, and video might fool you thanks to the camera following skaters every step. For example I hadn't known Miki Ando's jumps were actually quite big until I saw her LIVE.
And Aesthetics didn't said "Yuzuru is an artistic skater like Takahashi". She said Yuzuru "has gone from an athletic jumper to something like an artistic skater like Takahashi". It means he has improved his artistry and heading towards Dai's direction. It doesn't mean he is on the same level as Dai. It only means he is trying to head towards that goal and he has shown some improvement.
Ah yes, I don't agree about the "joke". But to her, who have seen these skaters live, she can't see that Han Yan has better skating skills than Yuzuru. So she's shock/baffled by your statement. I remember someone said "Mao Asada is fat" and I asked why, she said "I can see that through videos" and I replied "that sounds like a joke". I think it's not that insulting. This case might be the same.By saying "Hanyu has gone from an athletic jumper to an artistic skater" means he already is an artistic skater, not still going in that direction. That's what I understood from Aesthetics' post. I already pointed out Hanyu's great improvement (posture wise, skating skills wise, presentation wise) in my original post so I don't understand what the problem is.
I appreciate Aesthetics' point of view from seeing the competition live but does that mean I cannot have a different opinion? Does that mean Aesthetics is free to label it as a joke?
I believe Hanyu says "I don't even want to know" instead of "I don't go to finals", and Brian answers "No exhibition" and not "no axels".
Yeah it does seem like Brian said "no exhibition" instead. I'm not sure what Hanyu was mumbling there, might have been something like "I don't even want to find out" or something. It's hard to tell because of the background noise and I'm not used to his speech.
Ah yes, I don't agree about the "joke". But to her, who have seen these skaters live, she can't see that Han Yan has better skating skills than Yuzuru. So she's shock/baffled by your statement. I remember someone said "Mao Asada is fat" and I asked why, she said "I can see that through videos" and I replied "that sounds like a joke". I think it's not that insulting. This case might be the same.
Narrator:
Amidst the differing opinions of whether or not Hanyu should have skated, this is what he said right after his performance.
Hanyu in wheelchair in the back hallway
Hanyu: Thank you, I’m sorry for the trouble.
Interviewer kneeling in front of Hanyu in wheelchair
Matsuoka: Your feelings came across strongly.
Hanyu: You don’t have to…please stand up.
Matsuoka stands: Did you not feel the choice to withdraw?
Hanyu: No, I thought about it. At the 6 minute warm –up I thought, ‘so this is the end of it’
I couldn’t even stand. (blood I think) was in my throat so I couldn’t breathe. I was looking at the ceiling thinking , it’s going to end here.
But I DID IT so it’s all ok!
Matsuoka: I thought you felt you had something to prove as an OGM? I think you showed everyone…not to give up.
Hanyu: That’s good. I’m really glad I didn’t give up.
At this time Hanyu is wheeling himself toward a van in a parking lot. He bows to Matsuoka.
Hanyu: Thank you very much. I was helped by everyone. Thank you!
Staff members help him out of the wheelchair and they are trying to get him into the van but he turns and bows again at the camera and says ‘Thank you!’
You can certainly analyze artistry with objective measures, but you can't "objectively" prove anybody has better artistry... although that certainly doesn't stop people from arguing. To me Hanyu's artistry isn't like Takahashi's at all, just like how Machida's isn't, or Chan's, or Lambiel's, they're are all different. Anyone can make analytic cases for why they think X skater is more artistic than Y, and those are interesting to read and debate even though there won't be a conclusion that everyone can agree on.it's objectively true that Yuzuru has better artistry
I mean compare to the field on that day. When everyone was off. I don't compare Yuzuru's artistry to Dai or to Tatsuki or Lambiel at all. I mean the field CoC that day.You can certainly analyze artistry with objective measures, but you can't "objectively" prove anybody has better artistry... although that certainly doesn't stop people from arguing. To me Hanyu's artistry isn't like Takahashi's at all, just like how Machida's isn't, or Chan's, or Lambiel's, they're are all different.
You can certainly analyze artistry with objective measures, but you can't "objectively" prove anybody has better artistry... although that certainly doesn't stop people from arguing. To me Hanyu's artistry isn't like Takahashi's at all, just like how Machida's isn't, or Chan's, or Lambiel's, they're are all different. Anyone can make analytic cases for why they think X skater is more artistic than Y, and those are interesting to read and debate even though there won't be a conclusion that everyone can agree on.
People's opinions are different, "artistry" is means different things to different people, people on forums insult each other, the world is round, water is wet.
Skating skills should be more objective to analyze, but I wouldn't really know until I see them in person at the same event with both of them skating pretty well. I do think Kovtun is waaay below either of them though LOL
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x29swt4_1110-報ステ_sport
Here is an interview with Hanyu directly after his performance. It's a quick translation I did so if you find discrepancies, please correct me.
This comes at the last half of the video clip 5:00 mark.
Whether it was right or wrong...in Hanyu's mind, if he can stand up, he is going to perform.
-That's the impression I got from this interview. I don't think he was considering setting dangerous precedents or how other people would react to what he was doing...He just wanted to skate.
AFP articles
FIGURE SKATING
Japan officials under fire after Hanyu's collision at Cup of China
SPORTS NOV. 10, 2014 - 05:15PM JST ( 10 )
http://www.japantoday.com/category/...r-fire-after-hanyus-collision-at-cup-of-china
shorter version in Los Angeles Times
Japanese officials criticized for letting injured figure skater compete
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-japanese-figure-skater-20141110-story.html
The second is - NO ONE should get a medal who falls FIVE times in a program. I think the ISU should give some serious thought to the penalties for falling. Once or twice, maybe, but FIVE times? That's just sending a message to all skaters that it doesn't matter whether you land your quad - go for it anyway! To me that's a negative message that will denigrate the validity of an already suspect scoring system.
AFP articles
FIGURE SKATING
Japan officials under fire after Hanyu's collision at Cup of China
SPORTS NOV. 10, 2014 - 05:15PM JST ( 10 )
http://www.japantoday.com/category/...r-fire-after-hanyus-collision-at-cup-of-china
shorter version in Los Angeles Times
Japanese officials criticized for letting injured figure skater compete
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-japanese-figure-skater-20141110-story.html
AFP articles
FIGURE SKATING
Japan officials under fire after Hanyu's collision at Cup of China
SPORTS NOV. 10, 2014 - 05:15PM JST ( 10 )
http://www.japantoday.com/category/...r-fire-after-hanyus-collision-at-cup-of-china
shorter version in Los Angeles Times
Japanese officials criticized for letting injured figure skater compete
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-japanese-figure-skater-20141110-story.html
AFP articles
FIGURE SKATING
Japan officials under fire after Hanyu's collision at Cup of China
SPORTS NOV. 10, 2014 - 05:15PM JST ( 10 )
http://www.japantoday.com/category/...r-fire-after-hanyus-collision-at-cup-of-china
shorter version in Los Angeles Times
Japanese officials criticized for letting injured figure skater compete
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-japanese-figure-skater-20141110-story.html
Another article, this one from USA TODAY: Scary figure skating collision an opportunity for change
http://q.usatoday.com/2014/11/10/sc...ge/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter