2015-16 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[StitchMonkey]

It's up to USFS to decide whether to include medalists in the team event under the Olympic bye.

If USFS decides to do so, and a team medalist (such as Jeremy) does use the bye, it would be a legitimate use, IMO. I would not see any abuse.

YMMV.

In theroy yes. But I would say that if Jeremy uses it multiple times, and then it results in a rule change that prevents team medalists in the future from using that bye, then it is in my eyes an issue.

If USFSA is ok with it, that than absolutely it is fine, but who knows how they feel.

Sorta a spirit vs letter of the rule. Who knows if USFSA thinks team medal is within the spirit. Personally i see nothing wrong with it and think it should be ok, but would not be surprised if USFSA did not see things the way I do. For that matter they may feel the spirit is a one time thing anyway, so who knows.

I guess it is one of those things that even if he can do it, if the powers that be are saying "that's not really what we intended" it is more polite to bow out gracefully and politely respect the spirit rather than point to a technicality.

Then again maybe they want him there for crowds, so who knows.

I guess I don't really want to see the issue pushed of if the team event medal counts, at least not after the first one. I don't really want to see a rule change, and would hate it come out of retaliation.

 

[StitchMonkey]

There are still pro-shows abroad he can do.

It's also a matter whether he wanted to end his career on a 5th place Nationals with a so-so finish.

He actually just sent out a tweet listing one of his SOI performances as one of the best tour experiences of his life.

You are right there are options, but not as many as there used to be, and maybe he would prefer to be more local. I hope he finds his place and I hope he enjoys it.

As for not wanting to go out in 5th. I am not sure how much better he is likely to do. It is not like any other top guys are retiring. If anything his competition has more of a fire under their engines than ever and it may be a much more competitive nationals. I wish he would focus on going out with that beautiful exhibition/tribute to his father on clean ice. That was a high note and beautiful note to go out on.

 

[ice coverage]

In theroy yes. But I would say that if Jeremy uses it multiple times, and then it results in a rule change that prevents team medalists in the future from using that bye, then it is in my eyes an issue. ...

I agree that the question of whether team medalists will be included is a good question. But it would be a good question no matter who the team medalists are/were.

It would be very easy for USFS to clarify its language to exclude team medalists -- if that is the desired intent of USFS.

The issue is not about Jeremy, IMO.

 

[andromache]

In theroy yes. But I would say that if Jeremy uses it multiple times, and then it results in a rule change that prevents team medalists in the future from using that bye, then it is in my eyes an issue.

If USFSA is ok with it, that than absolutely it is fine, but who knows how they feel.

Sorta a spirit vs letter of the rule. Who knows if USFSA thinks team medal is within the spirit. Personally i see nothing wrong with it and think it should be ok, but would not be surprised if USFSA did not see things the way I do. For that matter they may feel the spirit is a one time thing anyway, so who knows.

I guess it is one of those things that even if he can do it, if the powers that be are saying "that's not really what we intended" it is more polite to bow out gracefully and politely respect the spirit rather than point to a technicality.

Then again maybe they want him there for crowds, so who knows.

I guess I don't really want to see the issue pushed of if the team event medal counts, at least not after the first one. I don't really want to see a rule change, and would hate it come out of retaliation.

Is it a big deal if Jeremy "abuses" his bye? I'm not exceedingly well-educated in how getting Nationals spots works...if he continues to use his bye, is he taking someone else's chance to compete at Nationals?

I do think it might be better for his image to bow out gracefully at this point (or give it one last shot before bowing out). His desire for more National medals/trips to Worlds seems more based on pride at this point, rather than any realistic chances at a World/Olympic medal. If Jeremy medaled at Nationals next year--wouldn't totally shock me, given his history of stellar performances at Nationals--I would be happy for Jeremy because he's given us a lot of beautiful programs over the years...but I don't think Jeremy getting another shot at Worlds is best for the US men. If he was from a smaller country with less depth, I wouldn't see any problem with him continuing to compete (like Brian Joubert. Whose career is really amazing, actually, now that I'm looking at it on wikipedia. He's been to more WCs and Europeans than Plushenko. His results weren't always the best but aside from his first WC in 2002, he never placed out of the top ten. That's some stunning longevity.) Anyway. I don't even mind veterans competing against younger skaters, I don't think veterans should step aside for the young skaters to flourish, but if Jeremy beats Josh, Jason, or Max at Nationals next year, I think it'll be a real shame because although Jeremy would have beat them fair and square at Nationals, when it comes to international competition

 

[StitchMonkey]

I agree that the question of whether team medalists will be included is a good question. But it would be a good question no matter who the team medalists are/were.

It would be very easy for USFS to clarify its language to exclude team medalists -- if that is the desired intent of USFS.

The issue is not about Jeremy, IMO.

Fair enough - I mean if alternate realities exist I am sure there is a Stitchmonkey saying the same about Ashley if she had a bad season. I'd just rather them not feel the need to exclude team medalists. I almost would rather the question not be asked than the answer be no.

Then again, I also kinda wish they would have more of a "come on down and play the waters great we would love to have to have you!" attitude. To me the more the marrier. I would enjoy seeing skaters come back for love of the sport, and would love having a few more people at nationals. I would be fine with more liberal byes being allowed. There is just a part of me that worries USFSA is not as nice as me and think the rule was really intended for cases like Sasha Cohen. And a part of me really would prefer him not leave a legacy of "the Abbott rule" for lack of a better way to put it.

Anyway, I go back to what I have said many times about many skaters. I want to see them enjoying skating. Be it in exhibitions, competitions they are winning, or competitions they are loosing, I want to see them love what they are doing and the same goes for Jeremy. If Jeremy can come in 10th and still think it is worth it and want to be there, than a part of me wants to see it.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Is it a big deal if Jeremy "abuses" his bye? I'm not exceedingly well-educated in how getting Nationals spots works...if he continues to use his bye, is he taking someone else's chance to compete at Nationals?

I don't know if there are upper limits, but I don't think we are near them. If anything the point is to avoid that happening. It lets people who clearly can make it to nationals to not have to go through the lower qualifiers.

I personally don't see it as a big deal if no one else does. But I don't like the idea of him prompting a rule change or clarification. The cynic in me really thinks USFSA is likely to be more stingy about byes.

I do think it might be better for his image to bow out gracefully at this point (or give it one last shot before bowing out). His desire for more National medals/trips to Worlds seems more based on pride at this point, rather than any realistic chances at a World/Olympic medal. If Jeremy medaled at Nationals next year--wouldn't totally shock me, given his history of stellar performances at Nationals--I would be happy for Jeremy because he's given us a lot of beautiful programs over the years...but I don't think Jeremy getting another shot at Worlds is best for the US men. If he was from a smaller country with less depth, I wouldn't see any problem with him continuing to compete (like Brian Joubert. Whose career is really amazing, actually, now that I'm looking at it on wikipedia. He's been to more WCs and Europeans than Plushenko. His results weren't always the best but aside from his first WC in 2002, he never placed out of the top ten. That's some stunning longevity.) Anyway. I don't even mind veterans competing against younger skaters, I don't think veterans should step aside for the young skaters to flourish, but if Jeremy beats Josh, Jason, or Max at Nationals next year, I think it'll be a real shame because although Jeremy would have beat them fair and square at Nationals, when it comes to international competition

That's a big part of it to me as well. He said last year he was skating for himself, but I really think he was skating for himself to get medals. I am not sure he would be happy going to nationals and not making the team. I would love him to show up with a non-approved Latch SP and skate for joy and love, but I am not sure he can do that. I think he is very competitive (not a flaw) and feels a need to have a chance.

 

[Mrs. P]

If Jeremy wants to be at Nationals, I don't have a problem with it. I think he's a dark horse at this point. Jeremy's SP score internationally is only behind Jason and Josh. His ISU season's best FS, however, is behind seven skaters (Jason, Josh, Max, Richard, Adam Stephen and Grant). Ultimately, I'd like to not spend this whole thread talking about what we presume Jeremy is thinking. We really don't know.

I think ultimately if you're in the U.S. you have to accept that Nationals is a pressure cooker and you have to learn to peak enough there and peak at Worlds. That's not easy to do, but you have to learn to do that otherwise you'll be left at home.

 

[samm22]

I think the question for the US men this season is the quad. Who can land it when it counts. Jason's is a big question mark as of right now (4cc was a rough attempt... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkJzndiT93A ) Adam has yet to get his 4lz ratified in international competition. And with Josh it's a question of whether he will be able to skate the quad and the rest of his program cleanly. I don't think Jason necessarily needs the quad, but it will help his case a lot. Max is another question mark. He has the quads, but never really seems to put out two "foot perfect," as the British Eurosport commentators say, programs with the quad(s) and everything else.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Do we know what is going on with Timothy Dolensky?

He was on the international selection pool last year, but is not this year. He was 14th at nationals and the top 13 were included. There were rumors of him having a concussion prior to nationals, so not sure what is going on. He was forth last year at his senior B.

 

[centerpt1]

I don't think Jeremy has had any decent pro skate offers. He really needs the money. SOI invited others, but not Jeremy to make special appearances. As far as we know he hasn't been invited to any Japan shows-at least most of those whose cast has been announced. (including The Ice, which he has done the last few years).

He got dumped in the SP at Nationals, so the message to retire is loud and clear.(he dumped himself in the LP)

He sounds kind of sad in his recent tweets, seems to be looking back over his career, and seems to be wishing for pro gigs. It's a sad day when someone with his talent, skating skills, and performance ability can't get SOI or decent shows.

 

[karne]

but if Jeremy beats Josh, Jason, or Max at Nationals next year, I think it'll be a real shame because although Jeremy would have beat them fair and square at Nationals, when it comes to international competition

Let's be honest here, no point listing the three names, if Jeremy comes good at Nationals we know who's staying home.

I won't be secure about Max's position on any team unless he wins the darn thing.

 

[UnsaneLily87]

Jason, I think, really solidified himself as USA's #1 this year. He's a late season peaker but several times he went out there and said (with his skating) "you can trust me to deliver under pressure." Which I think was an important message to send. As others have said, he just needs that darn quad. He's no longer "up and coming," he's USA's big star.

In an ideal world, Jason and Josh will continue switching places as USA's top guy. That would require Josh to have a good GP series, a good nationals, and a good placement at worlds. But he's so breakable. He's currently injured. I think next season depends on his ability to stay relatively healthy. If he does, though, I'd like to think he has a shot at another nationals medal and maybe even a top 6 placement at worlds in Boston (especially if Jason has a quad and is in the medal hunt).

Max has just never inspired me. Although I wish him well. Jeremy is a fantastic and talented skater but as I've said before the ups and downs are getting boring.

 

[mrrice]

I can't believe I'm saying this as I've always loved Jeremy's skating. I think he should really move on from competitive skating. I think with all his talent, musicality, and what seems like a great personality. He should make himself into the next Brian Orser.

 

[silverlake22]

Josh seems so fragile, I love him as a skater but it seems like he's always getting hurt. I wonder if switching up his training regimen might help, maybe putting in more time for PT or strength training. I think his skating could benefit from more speed and power baseline (I think that's part of the reason he sometimes gets lowball PCS internationally), and when you're that injury prone, I feel like staying strong and taking preventative measures to protect against more injuries is always a good move. I feel bad because obviously it's probably not Josh's fault that he gets injured so much, but the reality is, he does, so if there's anything he could try in an effort to stop the frequent injuries, I feel like it could be worth a shot.

He also seems to get sick a lot. And clearly, anaphylaxis is not something in his control but it does make me wonder sometimes what his sleeping and eating habits are like given how frequently he is sick and injured. Dairy is a major source of protein, fat, and calcium for most people and Josh cannot eat any dairy products. And I learned through my sister who is also severly allergic to dairy that the body often does not absorb nutrients taken in powdered form - after years of taking calcium supplements, my sister found out from the doctor that she had pretty bad osteoporosis (at the age of 15) because her body wasn't absorbing the calcium she took in pill and powder forms. She had to start drinking lots of soymilk and orange juice to finally get the calcium she needed. She was an intense dancer and also had asthma like Josh, and she would frequently deal with getting sick, allergies (not food - indoor/outdoor seasonal stuff, which is often comorbid with asthma), and stress fractures, among other injuries. I feel for Josh because I know his health restrictions make everything much more difficult. I just hope he can find a way to achieve his full potential in the sport because he's sooo good but can't seem to catch a break.

 

[UnsaneLily87]

Josh seems so fragile, I love him as a skater but it seems like he's always getting hurt. I wonder if switching up his training regimen might help, maybe putting in more time for PT or strength training. I think his skating could benefit from more speed and power baseline (I think that's part of the reason he sometimes gets lowball PCS internationally), and when you're that injury prone, I feel like staying strong and taking preventative measures to protect against more injuries is always a good move. I feel bad because obviously it's probably not Josh's fault that he gets injured so much, but the reality is, he does, so if there's anything he could try in an effort to stop the frequent injuries, I feel like it could be worth a shot.

He also seems to get sick a lot. And clearly, anaphylaxis is not something in his control but it does make me wonder sometimes what his sleeping and eating habits are like given how frequently he is sick and injured. Dairy is a major source of protein, fat, and calcium for most people and Josh cannot eat any dairy products. And I learned through my sister who is also severly allergic to dairy that the body often does not absorb nutrients taken in powdered form - after years of taking calcium supplements, my sister found out from the doctor that she had pretty bad osteoporosis (at the age of 15) because her body wasn't absorbing the calcium she took in pill and powder forms. She had to start drinking lots of soymilk and orange juice to finally get the calcium she needed. She was an intense dancer and also had asthma like Josh, and she would frequently deal with getting sick, allergies (not food - indoor/outdoor seasonal stuff, which is often comorbid with asthma), and stress fractures, among other injuries. I feel for Josh because I know his health restrictions make everything much more difficult. I just hope he can find a way to achieve his full potential in the sport because he's sooo good but can't seem to catch a break.

Maybe he's getting all of his injuries out of the way? That's how it works, right?!!

 

[karne]

I wish Josh wasn't so fragile too, but that's just the way of it. As Damon Allen said earlier in the season, for them, it's about management.

As to being sick - he doesn't seem to get sick any more often than anyone else (anaphylactic reactions aside). I mean, Max was sick at Nationals, Adam was sick at Four Continents, Ricky seems to be the one who is perpetually sick at Nationals, it's just a thing they can't avoid. Josh's asthma might potentially open him up to more issues, but it doesn't seem to have been an issue of late.

His ankle is the major concern. As I understand it from interviews, it is a leftover from the break. And because it's his landing leg, it'll be vulnerable for the rest of his career.

At any rate, the international judges have shown they're ready to shower him with love when he does well, so here's hoping for a full, injury free, clean season.

 

[Sylvia]

Do we know what is going on with Timothy Dolensky?

Dolensky competed successfully (was the only Sr. man) at a small club competition this past weekend - a first-hand report on his new short program is posted at FSU, along with music info & video links: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...ws-updates-articles.95273/page-6#post-4512580

He was on the international selection pool last year, but is not this year. He was 14th at nationals and the top 13 were included. There were rumors of him having a concussion prior to nationals, so not sure what is going on. He was forth last year at his senior B.

Dolensky's concussion happened not long before Eastern Sectionals in November 2014. I'm hoping he might be considered for the ISP if he continues to perform well in his early season competitions.

 

[StitchMonkey]

And I saw you had a clip of his SP as well Sylvia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRV7sXPr6YA&app=desktop

 

[StitchMonkey]

Stephen Carriere is officially out.


http://www.icenetwork.com/news/2015/06/10/129766270/carriere-walks-away-with-his-head-held-high

The writing was on the wall, but now we have official word from the horse's mouth.

 

[Mrs. P]

I really enjoyed Stephen this last season. I'm glad he was able to get one more year in! Best wishes to him!