- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
Well I just woke up and came in here to read about the Women's final and it appears y'all are having dessert.
(quietly backs out of thread)
Well I just woke up and came in here to read about the Women's final and it appears y'all are having dessert.
(quietly backs out of thread)
The judges are doing nothing different. Satoko is still gettting +1 and +2 GOEs for her 3Lz-3T with a horrendously prerotated 3T while tech panel blithely ignores prerotations.
However, if Satoko Miyahara is the president of the Prerotated Toeloop Club, then I have no doubt Evgenia Medvedeva must take the vice president seat. Please take a look at the slo-mo gifs I made:
3F-3T in the SP (+1.4 GOE; judges gave +2s across the board)
https://imgflip.com/gif/1d7sw6
3S-3T in the FS (+0.4 GOE; only one judge gave negative GOE)
https://imgflip.com/gif/1d7tbf
How are these GOEs defensible when she can barely get two revolutions in the air?
I'm glad you're so happy with the judging. :noshake:
Well, Osmond placed 11th last year, not because the judges held her down but because she fell multiple times and the judges still tried to prop her up with 55.67 in PCS. No one should be getting PCS that high with 5 falls. She was fine and deserved to podium here, but not with those scores. Her SP was not flawless and that slip after the 3f-3t should have been reflected in the PCS - it was an obvious slip. Neither was Osmond lights out in the FS - she under rotated and fell on the 3l and had a distracting turn out and doubled the 3t. Yet, she scored 130+ for that. I am a Canadian and I like to see our skaters do well. Osmond has potential, but the judges are doing her a disservice for placing her on this pedestal.
In contrast, I thought Chartrand was vastly underscored. It sends a bad message to all those other skaters in Canada who hope to be marked fairly and have a legitimate shot at one of those few spots for Worlds and Olympics.
Well, Osmond placed 11th last year, not because the judges held her down but because she fell multiple times and the judges still tried to prop her up with 55.67 in PCS. No one should be getting PCS that high with 5 falls. She was fine and deserved to podium here, but not with those scores. Her SP was not flawless and that slip after the 3f-3t should have been reflected in the PCS - it was an obvious slip. Neither was Osmond lights out in the FS - she under rotated and fell on the 3l and had a distracting turn out and doubled the 3t. Yet, she scored 130+ for that. I am a Canadian and I like to see our skaters do well. Osmond has potential, but the judges are doing her a disservice for placing her on this pedestal.
In contrast, I thought Chartrand was vastly underscored.
Katerina Witt was skating to something that she experienced, "her joy" in Sarajevo, and the horrors that occurred there post her Olympic experience. As an earlier poster mentioned, Evgenia is skating to something she has no recollection of, and using sound bites that haunt our collective memories, still. For me,... too much, too fresh, too contrived!
I don't blame the child, I blame the team around her who thought it okay to go over the top. I hope there was some learning here and constructive feedback given that helps with program changes that need to occur.
It's not that she is not allowed to use it, it is that the program is poorly thought out and the real-life sounds used during the step sequence push it into offensive territory (an easy fix that Averbukh nevertheless refuses to make, I wonder why...). I don't intend to reiterate all the points that have been made in criticizing this program, as there have been many and most of them are valid. What I wanted to point out is that dismissing all such criticism is counterproductive and shuts off discussion.
Another thing: there are two sides to a program , the concept and the execution/choreography. When the concept concerns a controversial/sensitive subject, you'd better make sure that there are no missteps in the execution, because you are already walking a very thin line. Otherwise the program falls flat or worse, risks becoming insulting instead of respectful and poignant. Averbukh's program is the latest example, but for instance I had many of the same issues with Guignard/Fabbri's FD to Schindler's List from last year.
I renew my earlier argument that it doesn't feel right to spot her 2-3 falls in pts over her competitors.
Someone else (but Satoko) should show that she can be as consistent as Medvedeva - the scores will come.
As for Wagner, when you think about how much Osmond was over-scored this week for her output, "gifted" is the farthest thing from my mind. Wagner's content was comparable to Osmond's and yet she scored below 70 and 130 in the SP and LP last week. There was no over-scoring in the circumstances.
I don't think Ashley's short was comparable at all and Osmond has a natural shining personality whereas Ashley's is worked to the max. she has to put on the act and it is not as genuine as Osmond. Plus Osmond has more spiring in her jumps. I do like AShley's polish though but I t don't think we should knock the scores. You can't compare two different events besides Ashley has had enough gifting remember she got to go to the olympics. And it seems like people who are left off an olympic team ie Mirai and Sandu never really get it back together for whateer reason.Well, Osmond placed 11th last year, not because the judges held her down but because she fell multiple times and the judges still tried to prop her up with 55.67 in PCS. No one should be getting PCS that high with 5 falls. She was fine and deserved to podium here, but not with those scores. Her SP was not flawless and that slip after the 3f-3t should have been reflected in the PCS - it was an obvious slip. Neither was Osmond lights out in the FS - she under rotated and fell on the 3l and had a distracting turn out and doubled the 3t. Yet, she scored 130+ for that. I am a Canadian and I like to see our skaters do well. Osmond has potential, but the judges are doing her a disservice for placing her on this pedestal.
In contrast, I thought Chartrand was vastly underscored. It sends a bad message to all those other skaters in Canada who hope to be marked fairly and have a legitimate shot at one of those few spots for Worlds and Olympics. Given how Osmond has been treated all these years (including her 70+ SP at National's this year, with only a 3f-2t, 3z(!) and a 2a), it must be hard to be a Canadian ladies figure skater and think they will have a fair shot to get on that team. The best they can hope for is for Osmond to implode and then the judges will have no choice but to put her behind. (Although, case in point, this past Nationals, those judges still tried their hardest to get her a top 2 spot - she finished overall with 197.87 versus Daleman who just slipped ahead of her with 197.99 - and Daleman landed 7 triples, while Osmond struggled).
As for Wagner, when you think about how much Osmond was over-scored this week for her output, "gifted" is the farthest thing from my mind. Wagner's content was comparable to Osmond's and yet she scored below 70 and 130 in the SP and LP last week. There was no over-scoring in the circumstances.
I don't think Ashley's short was comparable at all and Osmond has a natural shining personality whereas Ashley's is worked to the max. she has to put on the act and it is not as genuine as Osmond. Plus Osmond has more spiring in her jumps. I do like AShley's polish though but I t don't think we should knock the scores. You can't compare two different events besides Ashley has had enough gifting remember she got to go to the olympics. And it seems like people who are left off an olympic team ie Mirai and Sandu never really get it back together for whateer reason.
Oh, so many things to address. For the life of me I don't understand how you can complain about overscoring when someone finished 11th. How about if she scored 0, would that finally satisfy you?
Her short program here was electric and stunning with exceptionally well executed technical content. Her tiny balance correction doesn't, per the rules, actually have to reflect anywhere on the score sheets. Where would you suggest she get dinged for that exactly? And how many points do you truly think that's worth?
Obviously she wasn't lights-out in the free skate, but I think you're trying to make it sound like a disaster when it was anything but. The most glaring error was on the triple loop, for which she was justly penalized. But you don't actually lose any points for doubling a triple, you just don't gain as many. It's not actually an "error" by the rulebook. It's just technical content that's not as difficult and not worth as many points as other technical content.
Considering the fact that Osmond didn't even make the world team last year I don't see how you can justly argue that she's been favoured and put on a pedestal.
And Chartrand was not underscored, vastly or otherwise. She skated pretty well here in the LP, but fell victim to the same problem that plagues her in most of her competitions — towards the end of the program she got tentative and likely tired and began to two-foot and underrotate her jumps. This is what has held her back for years. If she could address this problem she would be more of a challenger on a regular basis, as she's a lovely skater artistically with good programs and gorgeous jumps when she doesn't do the aforementioned. Considering that many ladies here got dinged for under-rotating it was clearly something the caller was particularly looking for.
I was only comparing because Osmond4Gold brought up the comparison. As for Osmond having "natural shining" and Wagner having to put on an act, that's a matter of personal preference. Yes, Osmond has more spring in her jumps, but her technique is also wild and unsettling at times. As for gifting, well every skater has been gifted at some point in their careers - Osmond included. Lastly, it's not Wagner or anybody else's fault that skaters who are left off a team like Nagasu and Sandhu never get it back together. (And let's be real, in Nagasu's case, she was struggling for years leading up to 2014, so being bumped for Wagner can't be much of an excuse.)
Just because Osmond's PCS at 2015 Skate Canada didn't impact a podium placement doesn't mean that I can't opine on the fact that the scores were too high for what was put out there on the ice. In that case, judges should basically give scores of 0 to everyone they think shouldn't be on a podium.
Let me be clear, I like Osmond. I think, like Gracie Gold, she tends to get put on a pedestel even when her output doesn't merit such attention. For that, I blame the judges more than I do Osmond. She didn't make the World team last year, but like I pointed out, she was way too close given what she put out on the ice. That does show that she was favoured.
I was not trying to make Osmond's 2016 Skate Canada LP sound like a disaster. I was responding to the poster who said it was "lights out", when in fact it wasn't. I could have also harped on the shaky 3z with the questionable edge. And yes, that error on the 2a combination was distracting. She turned out of the 2axel. It was a good performance and it deserved to nab her a silver, but it was not 130+ worthy. In my opinion of course.
As for the stumble in the SP, it could have easily been addressed in the "Skating Skills" and "Performance" categories of PCS. It was obvious.
I don't think it's called pre-rotation. It's more to do with their jump techniques. But her 3toe on 3S-3T is badly underrotated. It's not even close. should have been <<.
Does this feel exploitative? I don't know. I found the French team's 911 tribute in 02 to be exploitative.
I think that if Evgenia sticks to conveying the emotion of the shock of sudden loss and chaos then this program can work. If she can hit the right emotional notes then maybe people can see it for what it is: Trying to contextualized the world view on to the personalized experience. But please take out the voice overs and sound effects.
For me, the case that comes to mind of a program that ended up being "insulting, instead of respectful and poignant" was during the 2010 Olympic Season:
Oksana DOMNINA & Maxim SHABALIN (RUS) - 2010 Olympic Season - Original Dance (OD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtXWE1CfbcM
You said first that this is an FS forum. Maybe, I got whatever you're saying wrong. So what do you mean when you had to say this is an FS forum in relation to my first comment?