2017 GP Cup of China Ladies FS

[Ophelia]

I think we're arguing different things. Drama doesn't necessarily mean being emotionally invested. I don't particularly care for drama in a program, so much as a skater's ability to be in tune with the music in timing and tone. Again, a program that's all about sophistication, elegance, and softness - like P/C's Moonlight Sonata this year - is perfectly fine without having drama. Same goes for Takahashi's cool Blues for Klooks, for instance.

It's true that Higuchi's Bond program has more room for dramatic expression, though I would also contend that Zagitova's music does have an emotional range as well, with the more somber section in the second footwork sequence. I think that Zagitova is very much in tune with music in the first minute or so, then it drops while she's doing all the jumps, and then she gets it back right near the end. Her expression was just one-dimensional to me compared to Wakaba.

This. Higuchi completely inhibited and owned that FS.

 

[icybear]

I think it is fair to say that Wakaba will make the olympic team and Honda won't.

 

[Seruleane]

Thanks for reminding ...that was exactly how I felt about Zagi's program and delivery, I haven't seen such infectious exuberance, hope she brings that fireworks to the Olympics...wow....

Yes, Alina's FS is a real crowd pleaser. Honestly, IF she skates cleanly this season and builds up her reputation, AND she delivers a lights out program at the Olympics, I can somehow see her beating Evgenia if things aren't perfect for the 2 time World Champ. I don't know if I'd want that, b/c I still think Evgenia is the more mature and complete skater. But it's Olympic season so anything can happen. I definitely see Wakaba and Kaetlynn in the mix as well, to keep things interesting.

 

[whatif]

Like Honda had a chance. I would not bet on Honda accomplishing a lot to be honest. Her jumps will always be a problem.

 

[qwertyskates]

Yeah, their programs are completely different and the skaters have also different strengths and weaknesses. Under normal circumstances, I'd stilf prefer Higuchi in PCS but I could see why some people would disagree. But the things is, Zagitova's program is so completely unbalanced with no jumps in the first 2 minutes and 3 jump combos in a row that there is simply no question which of the two skaters deserves the higher component scores

Balance is such a subjective concept - to some, it's about symmetry, eg. equal numbers of jumps in 1st and 2nd half. To me, it's about keeping the program enjoyable throughout with distinct intentions of creating crescendos and climax. You can be Asymmetrical but still balanced. Some programs with lots of energy for jumps and step sequences but just lots of crossovers and pauses in between to me seem unbalanced, as if the skater has stopped performing and taking a coffee break.

The concept of "Balance" can mean different things to different people, so that's the reason we have judges who can apply a more objective criteria.

 

[semosk8tfan]

Programs used to be front loaded, they gave a bonus to jumps in the second half, and now we have people totally backloading their programs. Time for another rule change.

 

[Tolstoj]

Programs used to be front loaded, they gave a bonus to jumps in the second half, and now we have people totally backloading their programs. Time for another rule change.

Outside Eteri skaters and some other failing attempts in junior (Tessa Hong this season) no one else is doing the full backloaded program in the FS.

 

[qwertyskates]

Yes, Alina's FS is a real crowd pleaser. Honestly, IF she skates cleanly this season and builds up her reputation, AND she delivers a lights out program at the Olympics, I can somehow see her beating Evgenia if things aren't perfect for the 2 time World Champ. I don't know if I'd want that, b/c I still think Evgenia is the more mature and complete skater. But it's Olympic season so anything can happen. I definitely see Wakaba and Kaetlynn in the mix as well, to keep things interesting.

I really wonder if Alina can go so clean again. I hope for the best of course, but a lot of factors (physically, mentally, etc.) have to come together to deliver a virtuouso performance when it is such a risky program. There is simply no room for errors in her program - if she can't recover from a setback (like Anna P.) it might be over as there is no "space" for her in the second half. I'm not terribly optimistic about her Gold actually, Medvedeva's a safer vehicle, but yes, I prefer Zagi's program over Med's simply because it's so thrilling.

Anna P.'s meltdowns on the ice is heart-wrenching to see, but it is after all a sport. We admire athletes because they are in a way superhuman, and inspiring in how they overcome mountains to reach that pinnacle and dream.

 

[qwertyskates]

Programs used to be front loaded, they gave a bonus to jumps in the second half, and now we have people totally backloading their programs. Time for another rule change.

They want to reward athleticism, and perfectly right to do so. It's still a sport. Competition is itself a Darwinian process. Risks are rewarded to push the sport higher, faster and further. May the best athlete (mentally, physically, creatvely, naturally endowed, etc.) win.

Seeing the men withering at the end at CoC, you can tell that tiny Zagitova is a true athlete, building and building till the end.

 

[temadd]

Wakaba blew me away. Technically strong, fast beautiful skating and amazing performance. She's my winner.

 

[whatif]

I really wonder if Alina can go so clean again. I hope for the best of course, but a lot of factors have to come together to deliver a virtuouso performance when it is such a risky program. There is simply no room for errors in her program - if she can't recover from a setback it might be over as there is no "space" for her in the second half. I'm not terribly optimistic about her Gold actually, Medvedeva's a safer vehicle, but yes, I prefer Zagi's program over Med's simply because it's so thrilling.

Zagitova have not skated clean two programmes in one competition, this season. Correct me if I am wrong? Anything can happen. Last season started also the same way but by the end she was unbeatable.

Also, I think while backloading can be jarring sometime it actually works for Zagitova's choreography in this programme as it nicely builds towards more powerful jump-heavy second half. At least for me.

 

[Seruleane]

I really wonder if Alina can go so clean again. I hope for the best of course, but a lot of factors have to come together to deliver a virtuouso performance when it is such a risky program. There is simply no room for errors in her program - if she can't recover from a setback it might be over as there is no "space" for her in the second half. I'm not terribly optimistic about her Gold actually, Medvedeva's a safer vehicle, but yes, I prefer Zagi's program over Med's simply because it's so thrilling.

Yes, it is a risky program and there is no room for error, but I believe she has gone clean a number of times already. It was a very smart move by Eteri and team to keep Zagitova's FS from last year. I can't think of a better vehicle for backloading, and she has already been training it for a year so the muscle memory should be excellent. I haven't seen Medvedeva's new AK FS enough times to determine how it will hold up against Alina or Wakaba's, but for now, I definitely enjoy the latter girls' programs more.

 

[madison]

I wonder what's wrong with Zagi's short program, why she cannot skate it clean yet. Maybe she needs more competitions to roll it?

 

[Skater Boy]

Just wait for the men...

I did, I did - what a huge let down. But yay for the women.

 

[skatenewbie]

What no one seems to mention is that Wakaba was judged quite leniently in TES. Her combined GOE is the same as Alina's which I think is not right. One could argue whose jumps are better - Alina's flip is a masterpiece. But it is beyond any arguments that Alina is a better spinner by far and large - again their GOE is identical. And one more thing - I haven't had time to rewatch. But Alina did not have URs on a single Lz - she was given a carrot today. Wakaba consistently URed 3T in the combo. No carrot yesterday (and it was URed) - no today (I can't say - it may be OK - need to rewatch). But Wakaba just yesterday got ! on flip which she usually gets. What changed since yesterday - she improved her technique? No ! call.

All in all, a well deserved win by Zagitova. Whoever can match what she shows over and over again, welcome.

just rewatch the performance and both Wakaba 3T is clean, her 1st maybe borderline, but her 2nd is crystal clear. i've seen Zagitova 2nd 3Lz and yeah i can see why it get carrot, quite borderline. that happened with her 3F in combo too but it didnt get UR. about Wakaba edge call, it depends on the tech panel sometimes they called it sometimes not lol, still she's getting them 50/50.

Interesting next week, we would know if Satoko and Tsurskaya have chance going to GPF, also Kostner will she went clean and go to GPF? Evgenia is a lock in gold, but who will get silver and bronze?

 

[Grin]

Seriously. Alina is great, but the overscoring makes the whole idea of a competition pointless. But well, at least in the olympics she will face the overscoring queen so at least we can expect a little bit of a russian battle for the gold. Such a shame that equally talented ladies will be left in the dust without reputation scores, like Wakaba here.

Alina will face overscoring queen at her next GP assignment

 

[xeyra]

I did, I did - what a huge let down. But yay for the women.

I guess my words were prophetic since the men really did justify the Cup of Disaster nickname... Geesh.

 

[Miss Ice]

Alina having higher PCS than Wakaba and Wakaba getting LOWER PCS than what she had of COR is truly an insult to this sport. Who do these corrupt judges and the feds behhind them think they're fooling? B.Eurosport commentators agree, btw. Glad people do too (see comments to video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBc-REtIAo0

All in all, a well deserved win by Zagitova. Whoever can match what she shows over and over again, welcome.

I really hope not, since I would really not enjoy FS anymore if skaters started to imitate her sloppy leg flailing and overpacked programs with little originality and junior-ish "presentation". :noshake:

 

[MaiKatze]

German Eurosport totally lost their cool about Wakaba being behind Alina. They just couldn't believe it and said they were starting to believe in conspiracy theories, which they never did before.

 

[Miss Ice]

German Eurosport totally lost their cool about Wakaba being behind Alina. They just couldn't believe it and said they were starting to believe in conspiracy theories, which they never did before.

Theories?

But yeah, not surprising, at all.