2022 MK John Wilson Trophy Pairs Free Skate

[4everchan]

Skating isn’t fair, really. Alexa and Brandon are current and reigning world champions and will get the benefit of the doubt. I love skating but I’m a realist. If we want fair sports we need to watch non judged ones, like track or swimming.

there are judged sports with less complaints... and less obvious problems... just saying.

 

[moonvine]

there are judged sports with less complaints... and less obvious problems... just saying.

I would not mind if there were fewer complaints and obvious problems. I’ve been thinking about diving and how Cynthia Potter (US diving commentator) can predict pretty exactly the scores…it may be because they throw out the top and bottom 2 scores and only use the middle…anyway I don’t know how to fix it, only how it is atm.

 

[4everchan]

I would not mind if there were fewer complaints and obvious problems. I’ve been thinking about diving and how Cynthia Potter (US diving commentator) can predict pretty exactly the scores…it may be because they throw out the top and bottom 2 scores and only use the middle…anyway I don’t know how to fix it, only how it is atm.

they throw extreme scores in figure skating too, don't they?

 

[readernick]

Actually while you may not like them receiving +GOE for a touch down on a throw. The actually GOE deduction is only -1 to -3. They have a number of positive GOE bullet points on their throws. Specifically, they are huge. So, it is very easy for them to get a 0 or +1 even with a touch down of the hand. The judges scoring was in harmony with GOE bullets.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Well, it's not like their score is 'that high', knowing that in the past 'world class pairs competitions' we watched that kind of a score will give them 'only' top 10 placement and nothing more than that. I would argue if they received 210+ or 220+ points, but going barely after 200 points is not that great of a score for the pairs skating. It is respectable, but not great

 

[4everchan]

Actually while you may not like them receiving +GOE for a touch down on a throw. The actually GOE deduction is only -1 to -3. They have a number of positive GOE bullet points on their throws. Specifically, they are huge. So, it is very easy for them to get a 0 or +1 even with a touch down of the hand. The judges scoring was in harmony with GOE bullets.

that is assuming they would start at +4 or +5 which for this would need the most important bullet point like the throw being effortless from start to finish... which wasn't the case.

 

[yesterday]

Actually while you may not like them receiving +GOE for a touch down on a throw. The actually GOE deduction is only -1 to -3. They have a number of positive GOE bullet points on their throws. Specifically, they are huge. So, it is very easy for them to get a 0 or +1 even with a touch down of the hand. The judges scoring was in harmony with GOE bullets.

That's nice but why is it not the same for all pairs then?

 

[readernick]

That's nice but why is it not the same for all pairs then?

Not all pairs have throws like them. In fact, in the current field only the Japanese team comes close. So, the other pairs wouldn't have the positive bullet points to offset the GOE loss. This isn't a conspiracy. It's math.

 

[Andrea82]

I guess next week we will get 5 finalists.

Knierim/Frazier and Stellato/Deschamps are qualified for GPFinal.
I assume Miura/Kihara won't have troubles to finish in top 2 at NHK.

It means there are 3 spots in play for GPF.

Let's see if I will get lost....

Conti/Macii have 24 points (11+13) with 370.32 points in total (186.18 at Skate Canada and 184.14 at Sheffield)

If NHK is

1) Miura/Kihara
2) Chan/Howe
3) Kovalevs
4) Hock/Kunkel

Chan/Howe would be qualified for the Final.
Hock/Kunkel would be eliminated (11+9 points).
Kovalevs would need 190.47 points to beat Conti/Macii in the standings. The couple in 6th would have to wait for Finland. If Ghilardi/Ambrosini or Metelkina/Parkman win, they would be in the final (4th + 1st is 24 points but top placement is the first tiebreaker). If they are 2nd, both Kovalevs and Conti/Macii would qualify.


If NHK is
1) Miura/Kihara
2) Kovalevs
3) Chan/Howe
4) Hock/Kunkel

Kovalevs would be certainly in.
Chan/Howe would need 184.84 points to beat Conti/Macii.
Same reasonings as above inverting K/K and C/H.

If NHK is
1) Miura/Kihara
2) Hock/Kunkel
3) Kovalevs or Chan/Howe

Hock/Kunkel, the pair in 3rd and Conti/Macii would be all tied. One would have to wait for Finland result.
The pair in 4th would be out.

 

[readernick]

that is assuming they would start at +4 or +5 which for this would need the most important bullet point like the throw being effortless from start to finish... which wasn't the case.

I disagree. They have the best throws in the pairs field at the moment. But, the judges don't have to give them that bullet for this to work. The negative GOE on a touchdown isn't automatic -3. It's -1 to -3. So, the judges would only need to assess them at +2 or +3 GOE prior to the touchdown then take away -1 to -3 points in GOE. Hence, the plus 1s and Zeros.

 

[4everchan]

I disagree. They have the best throws in the pairs field at the moment. But, as the negative GOE on a touchdown isn't isn't automatic -3. It's -1 to -3. So, the judges would only need to assess them at +2 or +3 GOE prior to the touchdown then take away -1 to -3 points in GOE. Hence, the plus 1s and Zeros.

having the best throws in the business is one thing. I can give them that.
Was this throw good? No. It wasn't. This is exactly the problem people point out. Let's reward the skaters for what they do on the ice at that precise moment... and not based on reputation.... the judges here "usually" give them huge GOE so they will deduct a bit... but that's not fair because this throw was not one of their good ones. Second throw wasn't stellar either. Same with their twist which is usually awesome, but not today... So one gets wondering... how much they are kept up... when they do not have a fabulous performance. It wasn't a good day for them today. I will leave it at that.

 

[readernick]

having the best throws in the business is one thing. I can give them that.
Was this throw good? No. It wasn't. This is exactly the problem people point out. Let's reward the skaters for what they do on the ice at that precise moment... and not based on reputation.... the judges here "usually" give them huge GOE so they will deduct a bit... but that's not fair because this throw was not one of their good ones. Same with their twist which is usually awesome... It wasn't today. I will leave it at that.

Again,I respectfully disagree. The judges did judge what happened today.They rewarded them for the length and height of the throw, and the transitions into it. They then appropriately deducted for the touchdown. If you think the GOE system should be changed, that's a fair argument. But, the judges applied the points as written here and that's all I ever hope that judges actually follow the rules.

 

[4everchan]

Again,I respectfully disagree. The judges did judge what happened today.They rewarded them for the length and height of the throw, and the transitions into it. They then appropriately deducted for the touchdown. If you think the GOE system should be changed, that's a fair argument. But, the judges applied the points as written here and that's all I ever hope that judges actually follow the rules.

And that is exactly my point... judges seem to be giving them the benefit of the doubt, something many other teams do not get.

 

[mrrice]

Skating isn’t fair, really. Alexa and Brandon are current and reigning world champions and will get the benefit of the doubt. I love skating but I’m a realist. If we want fair sports we need to watch non judged ones, like track or swimming.

Exactly......Plus, we all know that early in the season, the reigning World Champions are "Help Up" until the big events toward the end of the season.

 

[boo69]

The only way that Alexa and Brandon will continue to be world champions is if the war in Ukraine continues. Really sad. Let's hope the war ends so that the Russian and Chinese pairs come back and bring Alexa and Brandon back to reality that they are not the best in the world. Right now Alexa and Brandon are coasting at the top b/c there are no other pairs team in the world that can challenge them. That free skate by Alexa and Brandon at Sheffield was godawful, but b/c the other pairs are not quite developed yet, it was still win by a large margin. That's the sad state of pairs skating now. The Russian and Chinese teams seriously need to come back so that there's more excitement at the top. I was laughing when Terry Gannon said that K/F would be the 1st US team to win Worlds 2X and win GP final. What a joke.