2023 Four Continents Women's Short Program

[TontoK]

I'd argue that in the Women discipline, Euros are much less deep (even in normal times) and WS points are given there just as much if not more.

Dance, even moreso.

These things run in cycles.

 

[mrrice]

Satoko was like a hummingbird over the ice. She was very musical and lovely to watch. When they tried to muscle her up to help her jump higher, the interference never really worked for her. Satoko's skating was very instinctive. I think she would have made a gorgeous solo ice dancer, with no need for the jumps distraction. I agree with those who point out that the tech issues on jumps for Satoko vs Isabeau are vastly different. And there's the issue of them skating in very different eras too.

They each have exquisite aesthetic qualities, but I personally would never think to strictly compare these two at all because they are so uniquely different. Their tech issues on jumps are not the same at all. Isabeau gets great height. As she continues to mature, hopefully Isabeau will develop more power and speed, without losing her other special qualities. Hopefully, she'll also get the technical adjustment help she needs as her body changes. The difference between Isabeau and the rest of the field, seemingly, is her utter determination and her full belief and confidence in her abilities, which probably fuels her consistency! That's an extremely rare quality, worth its weight in gold.

I have found the pbp chat quite entertaining. In some cases, informative, others rib-tickling. Some comments are questionable, while others I have a different view, and many others I agree with. No time right now to say all I wanted to in response to the event and chat commentary. Suffice to say right now, it's going to be a battle in the fp, with the bunched scoring. Whoever has nerves of steel will prevail.

@mrrice, you need to do your research on 4CCs venues. The event has been held since 1999, and took place in Korea 7 times, with an 8th scheduled venue in Korea planned for 2025. It's only been held 3 times in Canada, and 6 times in the U.S., mostly in Colorado, but also in Salt Lake City and in Anaheim. Also, held only twice in Japan (Osaka), but four times in Taipei, and once in China, with another time set for Shanghai next year. Look it up on Wiki.

Sadly, the first time 4CCs would have taken place in Australia, in 2021, had to be cancelled due to pandemic after-effects. And it has not yet been rescheduled to take place in Australia. It would be nice to see it happen in New Zealand, and in Mexico too in future. It's surely about numerous logistics, including venue availability, security and travel concerns, always.

I think you're missing my point. My comment is about Crowd Size. I don't really care where they hold the event as long as there are enough people in the stands to make it profitable for the host venue. To call the crowds "Sparse" would be an understatement. Figure skating is such a thrill for us hardcore fans. However, if I'm an Advertiser, seeing that small audience does not make me want to run to your event with my products. I won't count worlds however, I have been to GP Events with packed houses in Canada as late as 2010. The word is not getting out to the "General Public" and that is a problem. Figure Skating will continue to dwindle here in the states if we can't get major advertisers like Campbells, Smucker's and Hershey to get these events to the masses. I was at this event in 2010 and I can tell you, that crowd was huge. It took forever to park but, it was worth it. These are the crowds we need to work to get back into arena's. Alissa Czisny winning the Gold Medal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93-ZN6upxhY&t=11s

 

[4everchan]

Dance, even moreso.

These things run in cycles.

exactly... that's why i replied to the statement made... I am not buying it that 4CC is default cheap world standing points. With countries allowed to send 3 athletes in all disciplines, it gets crowded quickly as there are a couple strong nations in all disciplines, and quite a few strong nations in at least, singles. Also, right now, China is not at its best but when they have sent strong participants... anyways...

 

[icewhite]

Excuse me? Is your 'Jennifer Lawrence' reference about going to the movies? What a strange reference to something not so niche but more commonplace. Your reference doesn't make much sense in terms of ticket prices, because movie ticket prices are sky high fwiw. Plus, movie theatres are struggling to survive in the era of multiple streaming options in the comfort of home. Those who can afford the luxury, have home theaters with large screens.

Back to figure skating. Of course fs is a niche sport with humongous problems that simply are not being addressed by those in power, which again, is nothing new for figure skating. Why do you reference the event being in the U.S. as some kind of problem in any capacity??

4CCs has taken place in Asia a total of 14 times, with 7 of those times in Korea. Meanwhile, only 3 times in Canada, and 6 times in the U.S., with four of those times in Colorado Springs. Please realize that CS is the sport's state-of-the-art Olympic Center facility in the U.S. Some people complain about the altitude. However, the facility was likely intentionally built at high altitude in CS, to help athletes build endurance.

It's important to understand that venues are selected for many reasons, mostly having to due with facility requirements, availability, security, considerations related to travel, and even political stability in the chosen region. It would be nice to see 4CCs held in The Philippines, but there are probably a lack of facility needs and requirements, in addition to political stability concerns. New Zealand as well would be a welcome venue, but is there a modern facility available? In addition, what about travel and weather conditions? Since Osaka was the venue only twice, Japan fed probably doesn't prioritize bidding on 4CCs, but focus more on landing Worlds and Olympics.

I didn't compare to ticket prices but to a lover's night. Maybe it was distasteful, it sure was a bad joke, I simply wanted to say that I am in awe again and again at the prices of some skating competitions when I see half or 3/4 empty revenues - one has to ask why they don't simply lower the prices. I can't prove it, I have not done the marketing studies, but my very simply mind tells me that more people would come.
I am not sure if the rest of your post is adressed to me, it sounds like that, but I have explicitly stated that I don't think the US are the problem. I suppose you would be able to find a larger audience in some other places in the US. Why I think it is a problem in this specific facility? Ehm, because I saw the pictures??
The track cycling world championships are able to sell like 6000 thousand tickets - for track cycling!!
If I compare to other events figure skating competitions are simply overpriced, at least in my European view.

I don't have the final solution, but the problem is clear, many figure skating competitions nowadays lack the audience, and one needs to think about reasons and then solutions. Or do we just accept it the way it is?

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Didn't she end with the music? It got quiet but...

I rewatched and it didn't appear she went over. IMHO i noticed other skaters that may have gone over but no deduction.

The reason for the confusion here might be that skaters aren't technically required to end perfectly on the music (nor do they have to start with it, btw), they just have to stop moving within the required time frame, which is 2 min 40 seconds +/- 10 seconds for the Short Program.

Isabeau's music itself is already cutting it very close to 2 min 50 s, so if she does not finish and start perfectly in sync with it, she runs a high risk of getting a deduction for a time violation. Even going over by just a second or two will already lead to her getting a one-point deduction, while, for example, Yelim Kim has a buffer of about 5 seconds (as she doesn't start moving until a few seconds after her music starts). Other skaters (for example Chaeyeon) are cutting it similarly close, so this is not an Isabeau-specific "issue", it's just that some pieces of music aren't made to be cut shorter, or the skaters need those extra 10 s to get in all of their elements at the highest level or to best deliver the choreography. Usually, nobody notices the ten seconds difference, as the skaters don't tend to finish behind the music, but when it happens, it can be quite costly, like for Isabeau here.

 

[SmileHappy34]

I am happy they all skated well that they are close anything can happen. Isabeau skating last and clean congrats.

 

[JimR]

Ticket prices for the women's free skate are mostly $19. I assumed they dropped they dropped the prices to fill the arena, otherwise ticket prices can't be blamed for the small crowd.

 

[desertskates]

Sofia is still recovering from the flu. She pushed really hard to finish her short. She still can’t jump and getting Shortness of breath:-(

That's too bad. This girl has a real "it" factor and is so fun to watch. Hope she's better soon!

 

[yume]

I really liked the competition. Heh, like with men, I was most impressed by number 3. Every time C. Kim comes on ice this season, I just love her energy and powerful skating and those flowing jumps. Great skater! Also, was good to see Tennell in fighting shape again.

Knowing she started figure skating late (10yo), she's more impressive.

 

[desertskates]

Ticket prices for the women's free skate are mostly $19. I assumed they dropped they dropped the prices to fill the arena, otherwise ticket prices can't be blamed for the small crowd.

This would have been a short trip for me to be there, and I did look into it. Hotels seemed just a little high, rental cars a little high, same with plane tickets. All came out to be just a bit pricey.
I am, of course, kicking myself now for missing out. But live and learn

 

[moonvine]

The problem most likely is not that it happens in the US, but that it happens in Colorado Springs. There might be other places in the US which are easier accessible for more people. Often the ticket prices in figure skating are also simply insane, with no awareness (or care) that this is a niche sport, not a night with Jennifer Lawrence.

I think the tickets for this were very reasonable. It needs to be in a central location or on the East coast that’s more accessible. Or Canada. Or Australia (though they had I think this one and couldn’t get it together). It’s not fair that they hold it 1/2 the time in Asia and 1/2 the other 3 continents. It’s like having Worlds only in Japan and Espoo- there’s more to the world than that. Most of the time the first 4-6 rows at least sell out. Unfortunately people buy all event tickets in the first 1-6 rows and then don’t go to all the events, which is beyond me. Happens at Nationals all the time.

 

[el henry]

Ticket prices could be 50 cents and they will not fill the arena with locals from Colorado Springs.

It has been many many many (as in 40?) years since I was in the Springs, but it is not the easiest place to get to from the East Coast. All the incident prices (hotel, cars, meals) also have an effect. Holding an event in Colorado Springs will limit the number who can go, no matter the price.

 

[icewhite]

I think the tickets for this were very reasonable. It needs to be in a central location or on the East coast that’s more accessible.

Okay, I don't know about the actual prices, what I had seen was 360 for the whole event, which I find a lot. If I came travelling from another place, I would take a few days off and would like to see the whole event. So day tickets/ individual disciplines in my eyes only make sense for people who live in the city and are casual viewers. So my guess was a mixture of prices and location.
But maybe there were other deals to have that I hadn't seen.

 

[Moxiejan]

The reason for the confusion here might be that skaters aren't technically required to end perfectly on the music (nor do they have to start with it, btw), they just have to stop moving within the required time frame, which is 2 min 40 seconds +/- 10 seconds for the Short Program.

Isabeau's music itself is already cutting it very close to 2 min 50 s, so if she does not finish and start perfectly in sync with it, she runs a high risk of getting a deduction for a time violation. Even going over by just a second or two will already lead to her getting a one-point deduction, while, for example, Yelim Kim has a buffer of about 5 seconds (as she doesn't start moving until a few seconds after her music starts). Other skaters (for example Chaeyeon) are cutting it similarly close, so this is not an Isabeau-specific "issue", it's just that some pieces of music aren't made to be cut shorter, or the skaters need those extra 10 s to get in all of their elements at the highest level or to best deliver the choreography. Usually, nobody notices the ten seconds difference, as the skaters don't tend to finish behind the music, but when it happens, it can be quite costly, like for Isabeau here.

I just rewatched Isabeau. It appears that after stopping at the end of the music, she took a tiny step back. Perhaps this was counted as the “end” for timing purposes and put her 1 second over? At any rate, there is no need for her program to cut it this close. Her team needs to rework/shorten to give her a 5-second cushion.

 

[mrrice]

Here's the Commercial I was speaking about earlier. When you have a commercial like this going out to the entire country, it brings skating to the masses. We haven't seen a commercial like this in years. It Features Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, and Nicole Bobek. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oygY7Nc-j18

 

[Demandred]

I really enjoyed this SP, the Top 6 were almost flawless and performed their programs very well and there were quite a few enjoyable skates among the lower ranked skaters too. Well deserved lead for Yelim Kim. I would have put Chaeyeon second.

It was also great to see Bradie back at her best or very close to it.

 

[Dawn825]

Some thoughts.
I'm glad Bradie (and most others) got called on their rotation issues. It's a shame about the packaging because even my mom who barely watches skating noticed that she has great lines and carriage, and could look more special than she does.
Amber is tough, her SP starts out so strong then she really slows down at the end. She should really really work on that, the program was fabulous at SkAm but it hasn't looked the same since. I hope the loop doesn't start to become a mental block, because it's one of the best out there when she lands it. Rlly rooting for her tomorrow.
So happy for Haein, you never know what you're gonna get with her. She gives 110% after landing all jumps, and she makes me smile.
Chaeyoung's jumps were spot on and she was a machine out there. A lot to like, but she very noticably doesn't point her feet and it's hard to look past that. The US judge was not having it, gave her 10th in pcs.
Isabeau's combo looked clean to me in real time, but considering her history of underrotating it, they should have looked more closely, since they seemed committed to calling everyone else. Everyone's said what there is to say about her jumps, so I'll just point out in her favor that the choreography of her program is very difficult. She's twizzling all over the place, does several deep Choctaws, has a spread eagle, an ina Bauer and a front-to-back spiral, a knee slide between elements of her SS, etc.
Yelim's jumps were great here, no comparison between her posture and Isabeau's. Her carriage and arm movements are the most beautiful of all the ladies. However her program is completely empty before the step sequences. Perhaps no one has ever looked so good doing nothing but she's still doing nothing. The only moment of the program I the ina Bauer, which cannot be praised enough. But it's one move. The only other identifiable piece of choreography, the knee slide between the last two spins, is gone. Her FS is similarly bare. Idk if her choreographer is failing her or she just isn't capable of a more difficult program. Either way I hope she lands her jumps tomorrow, and we get a fierce final group.

 

[lariko]

I was going to go, but with how late they had ticket sales, announced the entries, eh. The prices in advance were okayish, I was getting comparable prices for flight as to Vegas and hotel was okay. Just organization wasn’t great.

 

[moonvine]

Here's the Commercial I was speaking about earlier. When you have a commercial like this going out to the entire country, it brings skating to the masses. We haven't seen a commercial like this in years. It Features Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, and Nicole Bobek. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oygY7Nc-j18

Quite honestly I don’t think it will ever rebound in America due to the convoluted scoring system.

 

[lariko]

Knowing she started figure skating late (10yo), she's more impressive.

That’s amazing. She must have been doing other agility sport or activity though? Very much want to see her live.