2023 U.S. Nationals Sr. Pairs Free Skate

[moonvine]

Thank goodness Alexa and Brandon came back this year! Great job!

I just …they are so fantastic I don’t want them to ever leave. Truly one of the great US pairs teams in history. They even make those funky “difficult entrances” into lifts almost look good.

 

[moonvine]

I thought except for pairs because Cain/LeDuc withdrew at Worlds last year. If I remember correctly we only have 2.

That is not correct. We have 3.

 

[moonvine]

Danny is such a strong male pair skater. He is rock solid with his lifts-gives his partner the freedom to stretch and rotate. He also has a very nurturing and protective way with his young partner-in a very positive, professional way. I am looking forward to the Kam/O'Shea team!

I love them so much. Seems like Mr Daniel O’Shea knew what he was doing when he made us (or me at any rate) wait sooooooo very long to know what he was doing.

 

[moonvine]

I don't remember the rule exactly, but I do recall thinking, "Wow, before this, I bet no one ever thought this rule could come into play, because it's so unlikely that these exact circumstances could occur."

It’s so unlikely I’m amazed there is a rule for it.

 

[moonvine]

Happy Birthday @skylark and many more!

Yes happy birthday!

 

[reader3]

Special congrats to Alexa and Brandon.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Rapper Romeo is playing his "music" again.

Oh my, yes. I was going to ask whether that overly raucous music was too loud in the arena. Watching from home I was saying, 'Please cut it off, turn it down, or pick something else.'

That was blow-out party music. It was just too loud, and I doubt what these competitors needed to hear before their free programs. I mean, U.S. fed gets so stuck in a rut doing the same things year after year and not really thinking of an updated approach, or forefronting what's best for skaters. That music may have worked well at some point in years past, at specific events, but the selection seems so off-putting at this point in time. The rapper doesn't seem to get the different, transitional vibe after the Olympics, with a new group of skaters coming up. I understand the fed is probably thinking about entertaining the crowd, but there are better ways of doing that. Minus cheesy Rusty Kath too! There was so much inconsistency and lack of coordination in the coverage too. It's annoying and mind-boggling.

I'm an advocate for a rest day in-between, particularly at Worlds, which skaters don't seem to get. So it was surprising that skaters at U.S. Nats were given a day of rest. Maybe skaters are so used to competing back-to-back days, it was a big adjustment having extra time to think about the fact they weren't done yet.

Don't get me wrong, I love pairs, but it still baffles me that they chose to put pairs in the Saturday prime time spot. The women or dance would have been smarter.

As someone else alluded to earlier, 'Which U.S. discipline has the World champions?' U.S. fed, unfortunately does zip-all to even promote the fact that Alexa/ Brandon are World champions carrying on a strong U.S. pairs legacy, which began in 1950, with the Kennedy siblings. In fact, Peter Kennedy was still alive and in his 90s when Alexa/ Brandon won Worlds last year! Why not do something to connect Mr. Kennedy with A&B before it's impossible? (Which it may be by now). They could have run a tribute short feature on U.S. pairs history, ending with A&B meeting Mr. Kennedy via a pre-recorded Zoom, or during an in-person video. This, instead of producing some cheesy behind-the-scenes nonsense game show with the pairs skaters!!! U.S. fed is too dim and ineffectual to create impact by connecting today with the sport's past.

That opening fall was, as Dick Button might have said, absolutely uncalled for and unnecessary and made the rest more stressful than it might have been

Ice is slippery. We tend to take for granted how easy skaters make it look. Uncle Dick knows this, but he always had a witty way with words, expressions, critiques, and cultural references. He actually never intended any mean-spirited snark.

________________________
In response to the below quoted comment:
There were probably several reasons why Nate & Deanna split. She has high ambitions, and she could see it was going to be difficult to break through the pairs top talent glut in the U.S., with Nate. As well, Nate had to have surgery, but I believe it was something other than his back, though he has struggles and understandable aches and pains in his back too.

Some fans may not remember, but it was Jim Peterson who brought Katie & Nate together as a budding team. Nate had the heart and desire to keep going after his surgery. When Jim & Amanda Evora moved to Detroit, only Valentina & Max moved with them.

Fortunately, for Deanna and her adopted country, she has found greater success in northern climes.

But he already retired once due to a bad back. That was what ended his partnership with Deanna.

Re the below observation about Max/Val:
They skated very well in the sp, perhaps because they were more prepared, and that concept and music choice is better fleshed out. The fp is an interesting choice, but it appears to need some tweaking. And it does look like it's not that well-suited for this pair. Their performance could be more consistent and inspired with tweaking, as it's likely too late to dump it and find something more compelling for them to effectively portray.

Valentina & Max seem to be prone to a lot of errors. I’ve not seen them clean all year.
They have so much talent but cannot control it.

_______________________
In response to the below, I get what you mean, but the situations while similar to a degree, are in the particulars, very different. While both Danny and Trennt are excellent pairs guys with good SS, Danny is five years older than Trennt, with more veteran pairs experience. I don't know a lot about Trennt's early skating background, but Danny won medals as a young singles skater. The splits with their former partners were under completely different situations, etc. Danny & Chelsea had paired fortuitously after other pairings came to an end (in Chelsea's case, a number of pairings, along with a stint in China). A fluke accident during a performance ended Chelsea's career and her partnership with Danny. In Trennt's case, some fans had been suggesting that he find a better-matched partner for at least a couple of seasons. Trennt & Evelyn worked in juniors, and they tried hard in seniors with a lot of Canadian political clout, but they didn't have the needed weapons to truly realize top-level aspirations. Trennt & Lia clearly have greater potential.

On the flip side, Ellie & Danny are a wonderful match too, in many ways possibly better than Chelsea with Danny.

So, Danny is a bit like Trennt?
Coming back, continuing strong with a new partner and getting bronze at Nationals

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Was it dismissive or a logistical error that Alexa/ Chris individual sp was not included on Peacock as part of individual discipline gold medalists?!

 

[mrrice]

I just watched the Pairs and I must say, Alexa and Brandon are the class of the field. Their program is filled with difficulty and Alexa soars through the air on those throws. I think it was interesting that they both singled the double toes in that combo. Was that actually a deduction since they did the same jump? Anyway, I liked several of the pairs this year but, the best couple won and that's great!

 

[skylark]

Alexa/ Brandon are World champions carrying on a strong U.S. pairs legacy, which began in 1950, with the Kennedy siblings. In fact, Peter Kennedy was still alive and in his 90s when Alexa/ Brandon won Worlds last year! Why not do something to connect Mr. Kennedy with A&B before it's impossible? (Which it may be by now). They could have run a tribute short feature on U.S. pairs history, ending with A&B meeting Mr. Kennedy via a pre-recorded Zoom, or during an in-person video.

That would have been great. But maybe it would have been even better to include other US champions like Tai & Randy, the Carruthers siblings, Ashley & Tim, etc. It would be a great feature, particularly, as you said, the US pairs legacy began with the Kennedy sibs

Ice is slippery. We tend to take for granted how easy skaters make it look. Uncle Dick knows this, but he always had a witty way with words, expressions, critiques, and cultural references. He actually never intended any mean-spirited snark.

I don't really think any of us can know for sure what Dick Button intended. It certainly sounded like mean-spirited snark to me, so why shouldn't people remark on it the way people do with Johnny Weir and others. Or else give Johnny and others the same benefit of the doubt.

 

[skylark]

She has never said anything publicly but I think when she deleted all her wedding and date nite pics and basically erased anything Dalton from her page the message was pretty clear.

IFS magazine posted an interview with her a couple of weeks ago. She sounds like she is in a good space and has moved on.

Do you have a link for this? Or did it only appear in the paper copy? I'd love to read it.

 

[yesterday]

Do you have a link for this? Or did it only appear in the paper copy? I'd love to read it.

Ashley Cain Thriving on Disney Tour – International Figure Skating

Ashley Cain, who is now touring the world with "Disney on Ice," said turning professional was one of the best decisions she has ever made.

ifsmagazine.com

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

That would have been great. But maybe it would have been even better to include other US champions like Tai & Randy, the Carruthers siblings, Ashley & Tim, etc. It would be a great feature, particularly, as you said, the US pairs legacy began with the Kennedy sibs



I don't really think any of us can know for sure what Dick Button intended. It certainly sounded like mean-spirited snark to me, so why shouldn't people remark on it the way people do with Johnny Weir and others. Or else give Johnny and others the same benefit of the doubt.

I'm a long time fan of Johnny Weir. His legacy and influence in this sport is quite often underestimated or downplayed/ misunderstood. Johnny is a gem of a person. He's very sweet and down-to-earth underneath all the bravado. I'm not sure what you mean by saying, 'give Johnny and others the same benefit of the doubt?' To what are you referring exactly? I don't think Johnny is snarky or mean-spirited in his commentary! When I critique Tara, Terry & Johnny, I always point out what a good team they are together, and I qualify my criticisms. They are covering figure skating the way NBC wants them to cover it. That's their job, and I understand that, even though I don't agree with the way they go about it in general. I think they are making an effort to stop over-talking during skaters' performances, which is welcome. Johnny is a very good analyst, but his abilities can get lost sometimes in the booth with Tara and Terry. That's why I enjoy Johnny's ice dance coverage, this year with Ben Agosto and Terry. Johnny beefed up his knowledge of ice dance, and it shows.

I responded regarding my feelings about Dick Button. And I stick by what I said. Everybody can have their own opinion. I learned a lot about fs from listening to Dick Button's commentary over the years. He's an icon in this sport, and he's made important, legendary contributions that some people may not be aware of. He's responsible for convincing ABC to start televising figure skating during the boom and bloom in talent in the U.S. in the late 50s/ early 60s.

Yes, Dick could be blunt and harsh at times. He was often provocative. There was that famous 'fridge break' comment which some people were up-in-arms about. Again, he did not mean it in a personal, negative manner, despite the seeming insensitivity. The skater did go on to improve her presentation skills and her programs quite a bit. It's important to understand the context of Dick's comments. It might also be helpful to read his memoir, Push Dick's Button. He is self-deprecating and witty. He's never taken himself too seriously. I met him in-person once in the 1990s. He was charming and witty, with that ever-present, mischievous twinkle in his eye. He's always had a great passion for the sport.

I don't agree with every comment or opinion of Dick Button's, but I certainly respect his knowledge, which is vast. He's probably forgotten more than most of us combined will ever learn or understand about figure skating.

Funnily enough, Dick Button used to give equal praise and criticism to Johnny's skating. Dick once equated Johnny's smooth skating to that of a gazelle and a lynx. When later told about Dick's comments, Johnny said he didn't like being compared to animals. LOL! I think Johnny eventually understood what Dick was getting at. This year I had to LOL when I heard Johnny in the booth comparing Isabeau Levito's skating to a butterfly, and to a hummingbird. ROFL!

 

[skylark]

I love Johnny Weir's commentary, and I've said so many times on these forums.

In the past, while competing, he said some very snarky things. I'm not sure if that carried over to his commentary, so I picked a poor example.

I'll just re- emphasize what should have been my only point. I don't think any of us can know for sure if Button did or didn't mean his snarky, mean=spirited remarks. That's up to each listener's interpretation, and it's only an interpretation. For each of us.

 

[slider11]

Just rewatched McBeath and Bartholomay's LP. Other than the half lift at the end, it was a solid performance and I really liked their flow. Sadly, I think Nathan's back is his nemesis and I'm not sure how much longer to expect to see him as her partner. But maybe they are honing Katie's skills as a pair-girl and she will be paired with another man. Maybe Alexa retires but Brandon still has some gas in his tank? The Sands-Meno teams are super!

 

[moonvine]

I'm a long time fan of Johnny Weir. His legacy and influence in this sport is quite often underestimated or downplayed/ misunderstood. Johnny is a gem of a person. He's very sweet and down-to-earth underneath all the bravado. I'm not sure what you mean by saying, 'give Johnny and others the same benefit of the doubt?' To what are you referring exactly? I don't think Johnny is snarky or mean-spirited in his commentary! When I critique Tara, Terry & Johnny, I always point out what a good team they are together, and I qualify my criticisms. They are covering figure skating the way NBC wants them to cover it. That's their job, and I understand that, even though I don't agree with the way they go about it in general. I think they are making an effort to stop over-talking during skaters' performances, which is welcome. Johnny is a very good analyst, but his abilities can get lost sometimes in the booth with Tara and Terry. That's why I enjoy Johnny's ice dance coverage, this year with Ben Agosto and Terry. Johnny beefed up his knowledge of ice dance, and it shows.

I responded regarding my feelings about Dick Button. And I stick by what I said. Everybody can have their own opinion. I learned a lot about fs from listening to Dick Button's commentary over the years. He's an icon in this sport, and he's made important, legendary contributions that some people may not be aware of. He's responsible for convincing ABC to start televising figure skating during the boom and bloom in talent in the U.S. in the late 50s/ early 60s.

Yes, Dick could be blunt and harsh at times. He was often provocative. There was that famous 'fridge break' comment which some people were up-in-arms about. Again, he did not mean it in a personal, negative manner, despite the seeming insensitivity. The skater did go on to improve her presentation skills and her programs quite a bit. It's important to understand the context of Dick's comments. It might also be helpful to read his memoir, Push Dick's Button. He is self-deprecating and witty. He's never taken himself too seriously. I met him in-person once in the 1990s. He was charming and witty, with that ever-present, mischievous twinkle in his eye. He's always had a great passion for the sport.

I don't agree with every comment or opinion of Dick Button's, but I certainly respect his knowledge, which is vast. He's probably forgotten more than most of us combined will ever learn or understand about figure skating.

Funnily enough, Dick Button used to give equal praise and criticism to Johnny's skating. Dick once equated Johnny's smooth skating to that of a gazelle and a lynx. When later told about Dick's comments, Johnny said he didn't like being compared to animals. LOL! I think Johnny eventually understood what Dick was getting at. This year I had to LOL when I heard Johnny in the booth comparing Isabeau Levito's skating to a butterfly, and to a hummingbird. ROFL!

I think Dick Button is the person in skating I wish I’d met. Even before Keegan.

 

[moonvine]

I love Johnny Weir's commentary, and I've said so many times on these forums.

In the past, while competing, he said some very snarky things. I'm not sure if that carried over to his commentary, so I picked a poor example.

I'll just re- emphasize what should have been my only point. I don't think any of us can know for sure if Button did or didn't mean his snarky, mean=spirited remarks. That's up to each listener's interpretation, and it's only an interpretation. For each of us.

Could you possibly give me an interpretation of “How dare he bring out that mess of a Chaplin program after Hanyu just skated” that would be in any way positive?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Just rewatched McBeath and Bartholomay's LP. Other than the half lift at the end, it was a solid performance and I really liked their flow. Sadly, I think Nathan's back is his nemesis and I'm not sure how much longer to expect to see him as her partner. But maybe they are honing Katie's skills as a pair-girl and she will be paired with another man. Maybe Alexa retires but Brandon still has some gas in his tank? The Sands-Meno teams are super!

Yeah, injuries may lead to Nate retiring. I don't think Katie would be interested in continuing without Nate though. They are a couple off-the-ice. Brandon & Alexa will surely retire together if/ when they retire. It was cool of them to come back at all. It hasn't been an easy season for Alexa, with losing her grandmother recently, and also their female St. Bernard, to cancer.

 

[moonvine]

Yeah, injuries may lead to Nate retiring. I don't think Katie would be interested in continuing without Nate though. They are a couple off-the-ice. Brandon & Alexa will surely retire together if/ when they retire. It was cool of them to come back at all. It hasn't been an easy season for Alexa, with losing her grandmother recently, and also their female St. Bernard, to cancer.

I think Nate is skating for her at this point. I think he may possibly do one more season because she REALLY loves it.

Those things would be hard for Alexa (or anyone) to go through. The problem with those giant dogs is that they tend to have a short life span no matter how exquisitely cared for (which I’m sure their dog was). Skating may be therapy for her (or may not) swimming is my therapy but I’m not training to do anything than swim in small local comps.

 

[skylark]

Could you possibly give me an interpretation of “How dare he bring out that mess of a Chaplin program after Hanyu just skated” that would be in any way positive?

No, but you're proving my original statement that Johnny Weir may be one of the people who make snarky remarks, and I said either condemn everyone equally or give everyone the same sort of benefit of the doubt. I don't actually think the quote from Dick Button that started this area of discussion can be construed as positive either, although I didn't use the word "positive." But BlissfulSynergy said that Dick didn't mean it that way. I responded that I don't think anyone can say for sure exactly if another person did or didn't mean it that way. Or what they were thinking (or not thinking) when they said it.

That doesn't mean I like it when people say mean things. I don't. But commentating is a tough job. You want to be authentic and provide something for listeners to chew over. I try to give everyone a bit of benefit of the doubt now and then, and I try to forget it when someone says something negative about one of my darlings, as hard as that is. As far as Johnny's commentating, I think he's gotten more careful over the years, and I appreciate that. I love that he looks at whether a skater is artistic as well as technical, and finds interesting ways and words to bring that into the discussion. He said about Isabeau that one of the things he loves is that she makes what's really difficult look easy, like skaters from when he was coming up.