Chock & Bates move training base to Montreal

[NoNameFace]

Well on the one hand, at least last year Marie-France branched out at least somewhat from the usual mush. Though the most interesting programs out of Montreal were not primarily choreographed by her.

On the other hand, I fear the boredom factor with my favorite discipline will rise, which is what always happens when too many top teams are coached and choreographed by the same team.

Not sure this is the wisest move for them.

I am not super-crazy about Montreal for them, but at least there is a MOVE -no stagnation in previous environment, no retirement. which is the most important thing for me right now. A quality, talented team I grew to appreciate fairly lately so I want them to compete as long as they can - regardless of coaching. If that will bring a new energy and creative impulses to them, I'm all for that. There is no certainty that they won't source choreographical input outside of Montreal - it could be very interesting to see them under new team.

 

[lauravvv]

Carolane and Shane have a higher personal best, and since they're a newer team they probably have more inherent room to grow, but some people like that Laurence and Nikolaj's scores to date are lower than they otherwise would have been because they were hitherto representing a pauper fed, so we'll see.

I looked at their ISU bios, and it's just as I thought - Soucisse/Firus's personal (total) best is by 0,04 points higher than Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen's. Which tell as absolutely nothing. You are right about S/F having more room to grow, though. But F-S/S have improved slowly but steadily each season, so it seems like they can still continue to improve. It will be really interesting to see what happens with those two teams. Also, I really love Weaver/Poje and am glad that they have seemingly decided to continue for a season or two (most likely two), but, at the same time, I don't really want them to continue for longer than until 2020 Worlds in Montreal, as I want to see both S/F and F-S/S in the Canadian Worlds team (if they get three spots which, a bit ironically, can be done with help from W/P). Or someone else, like Lajoie/Lagha, if they manage to pass one of those two teams in that time.

Sorry for the huge off-topic.

As for Chock/Bates, I don't know if this move will really help them, but I am quite curious to see the results. Plus, theirs seems like a situation where they probably decided to either try and change something quite radically or retire.

 

[Lester]

As for Chock/Bates, I don't know if this move will really help them, but I am quite curious to see the results. Plus, theirs seems like a situation where they probably decided to either try and change something quite radically or retire.

Yeah I fear they'll get lost in the crowd of pleasing but uninspired teams with this move. I am not sure why they didn't look for another coach, although they probably have thought it through.

 

[Jammers]

I'm surprised that C/B are continuing on. They've been on a bit of a decline the last couple years and to be honest i hope some of the younger teams catch up with them by 2022. I really don't want the same 3 teams at the Olympics in 2022. Evan has already been to 3 Olympics how many do you really need to go to? I think age will catch up with them also by Beijing.

 

[Garry12]

I'm surprised that C/B are continuing on. They've been on a bit of a decline the last couple years and to be honest i hope some of the younger teams catch up with them by 2022. I really don't want the same 3 teams at the Olympics in 2022. Evan has already been to 3 Olympics how many do you really need to go to? I think age will catch up with them also by Beijing.

Agree. I am kind of ready for all top three US teams to retire. I want to see young teams more.

 

[oly2018]

I'm surprised that C/B are continuing on. They've been on a bit of a decline the last couple years and to be honest i hope some of the younger teams catch up with them by 2022. I really don't want the same 3 teams at the Olympics in 2022. Evan has already been to 3 Olympics how many do you really need to go to? I think age will catch up with them also by Beijing.

I don't think they will last the whole cycle. This move kind of feels like they are clinging on. Their scores have been stagnating internationally and I don't think switching coaches will help them with that. Plus, it takes a few years to gel with a new coaching style and they don't really have that kind of time. The US field is so deep, there needs to be some movement at the top or else I think we are going to start seeing really talented teams just retire. What's the point of sticking around and putting in the money and effort if you are never going to be given the chance to be at the top? I think H/B may benefit from this move, but I just don't see how C/B will.

 

[Skater Boy]

MF & Patrice's camp hasn't made clones, instead seems to have brought out the best in each individual couple and helped them find and nourish their style, starting with expertise in technique. They're technicians who have bettered twizzles in some couples, increased speed, edges, quality of movement... H&D have never looked stronger. They're more than just sex appeal now. P&C have a style that's all their own and they've mastered it. V&M came from Gadbois with better twizzles, a fresher approach and look nothing like P&C.

I think all the 'new' that's coming to Gadbois is looking to hone in on their "best selves" and MF & Patrice have obviously proven to the world that they're capable of bringing that out of people. 3 of the top 4 at the Olympics came from their camp! That HAS to say something.

Hawayek/Baker and Chock/Bates both have strong male skaters and females who, well they are good in PCS, lack some of the technical prowess of their male counterparts. The goal here will be to improve their technique and instill confidence in their abilities. They ARE able. They just don't have the finishing touches yet.

What is it with these great Canadian coaches (Dubreil/Lauzon (feel sorry for him as we hardly even mention him) and Orser) not being able or even willing to take their own nation skaters. Why take Chock and Bates when Weapo wanted to go there. why are Weapo so unwanted? Will Zueva or Igor take them> Can A new combo of coaching say Igor and Angelika Krylova make a difference?

 

[Skater Boy]

I looked at their ISU bios, and it's just as I thought - Soucisse/Firus's personal (total) best is by 0,04 points higher than Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen's. Which tell as absolutely nothing. You are right about S/F having more room to grow, though. But F-S/S have improved slowly but steadily each season, so it seems like they can still continue to improve. It will be really interesting to see what happens with those two teams. Also, I really love Weaver/Poje and am glad that they have seemingly decided to continue for a season or two (most likely two), but, at the same time, I don't really want them to continue for longer than until 2020 Worlds in Montreal, as I want to see both S/F and F-S/S in the Canadian Worlds team (if they get three spots which, a bit ironically, can be done with help from W/P). Or someone else, like Lajoie/Lagha, if they manage to pass one of those two teams in that time.

Sorry for the huge off-topic.

As for Chock/Bates, I don't know if this move will really help them, but I am quite curious to see the results. Plus, theirs seems like a situation where they probably decided to either try and change something quite radically or retire.

C and B are very lucky Marie France and friends took them. I am not sure why but Weapo are done if they do not get an injection soon - they need something. They won bronze barely with an old program.

 

[Scout]

I'm surprised that C/B are continuing on. They've been on a bit of a decline the last couple years and to be honest i hope some of the younger teams catch up with them by 2022. I really don't want the same 3 teams at the Olympics in 2022. Evan has already been to 3 Olympics how many do you really need to go to? I think age will catch up with them also by Beijing.

Thank goodness Aliona didn't stop at 3 Olympics.

Maybe C/B are hoping to be part of the team event and get an Olympic medal? Maybe they just love to skate and compete and an Olympics is always special.

I don't mind that the veterans hang around. Let the young ones put pressure on them, and let the young ones earn their spot on the podium, instead of just giving it to them by retiring.

I'm a bit surprised the H/D are ok with this arrangement, but maybe they thrive in a more competitive atmosphere.

 

[Colonel Green]

C and B are very lucky Marie France and friends took them. I am not sure why but Weapo are done if they do not get an injection soon - they need something. They won bronze barely with an old program.

I think that's a weird way to frame Weaver and Poje's bronze medal. That was their biggest win since they won the 2015 Grand Prix Final, almost two-and-a-half seasons prior. Indeed, they vaulted over (among others) Chock and Bates, who've generally been ranked ahead of them this season (absent mistakes).

 

[Emilia12]

Weaver and Poje still working with Morozov, and I’m not even sure they want or need another coach. It’s very possible that them being turned down on Montreal it’s just a rumor

 

[humbaba]

Evan has already been to 3 Olympics how many do you really need to go to?

I would say that is a decision for the athlete to make. Evan has a way to go to catch up to ice dancers Drobiazko and Vanagas, who competed in five Olympic games. More than 175 athletes have competed in six or more Olympics. The record belongs to Canadian equestrian Ian Millar, who participated in ten games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_with_the_most_appearances_at_Olympic_Games

I think age will catch up with them also by Beijing.

Madison is still just 25 years old. She turns 26 in July. That is young for an ice dancer. She'll still be on the sunny side of thirty at the next Olympics. Evan is older at 29, but that is not a particularly advanced age for ice dancers. For comparison, Kaitlyn Weaver and Tessa Virtue are both also 29. Andrew Poje and Anna Cappellini are both 31. Luca Lanotte is 32. Fabian Bourzat competed at the Sochi Olympics at the age of 33. Interestingly, Canadian ice dancers Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen, who are often touted as a promising team for the future, are the same age as Chock/Bates -- she will be 26 this July and he turned 29 this past February.

I am kind of ready for all top three US teams to retire. I want to see young teams more.

Granted, the US has a logjam of talented teams. That's a nice problem for the federation to have, but a very difficult and frustrating situation for the teams. I just don't believe the solution is to dump the veteran teams who have represented the USA so well. The performance of these teams is the reason American ice dancers have had three Olympic/Worlds spots to compete for all this past quad. No one should be expected to retire because "my favorite team has been waiting so long and now it's their turn."

I think the US needs its top teams to stick around. As talented as the younger teams are, I'm not sure any of them are quite ready to fill the boots of the veterans. If they are ready, then great. Let them prove it on the ice. Good luck to them all.

 

[4everchan]

What is it with these great Canadian coaches (Dubreil/Lauzon (feel sorry for him as we hardly even mention him) and Orser) not being able or even willing to take their own nation skaters. Why take Chock and Bates when Weapo wanted to go there. why are Weapo so unwanted? Will Zueva or Igor take them> Can A new combo of coaching say Igor and Angelika Krylova make a difference?

wait.. who ever said Weapo wanted Montreal?

Please do not make assumptions or provide us with concrete information. Saying Weapo are unwanted is bashing them..I don't think you meant that.

 

[Skater Boy]

wait.. who ever said Weapo wanted Montreal?

Please do not make assumptions or provide us with concrete information. Saying Weapo are unwanted is bashing them..I don't think you meant that.

In one of the threads it talked at length how MF and friends turned down Weapo. And I certainly wouldn't bash them; I think Weapo are an unluck and underratedteam. They should have had a world title like Dubreil and Lauzon deserved. I just htink they need a major shake up.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

In one of the threads it talked at length how MF and friends turned down Weapo. And I certainly wouldn't bash them; I think Weapo are an unluck and underratedteam. They should have had a world title like Dubreil and Lauzon deserved. I just htink they need a major shake up.

Just because it's in one of the threads does not mean the person had concrete information. There was no confirmation that WeaPo even seeked moving to Montreal or that Team Gadbois turned them down whatsoever.

 

[Garry12]

I would say that is a decision for the athlete to make. Evan has a way to go to catch up to ice dancers Drobiazko and Vanagas, who competed in five Olympic games. More than 175 athletes have competed in six or more Olympics. The record belongs to Canadian equestrian Ian Millar, who participated in ten games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_athletes_with_the_most_appearances_at_Olympic_Games





Madison is still just 25 years old. She turns 26 in July. That is young for an ice dancer. She'll still be on the sunny side of thirty at the next Olympics. Evan is older at 29, but that is not a particularly advanced age for ice dancers. For comparison, Kaitlyn Weaver and Tessa Virtue are both also 29. Andrew Poje and Anna Cappellini are both 31. Luca Lanotte is 32. Fabian Bourzat competed at the Sochi Olympics at the age of 33. Interestingly, Canadian ice dancers Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen, who are often touted as a promising team for the future, are the same age as Chock/Bates -- she will be 26 this July and he turned 29 this past February.





Granted, the US has a logjam of talented teams. That's a nice problem for the federation to have, but a very difficult and frustrating situation for the teams. I just don't believe the solution is to dump the veteran teams who have represented the USA so well. The performance of these teams is the reason American ice dancers have had three Olympic/Worlds spots to compete for all this past quad. No one should be expected to retire because "my favorite team has been waiting so long and now it's their turn."

I think the US needs its top teams to stick around. As talented as the younger teams are, I'm not sure any of them are quite ready to fill the boots of the veterans. If they are ready, then great. Let them prove it on the ice. Good luck to them all.

I think they are stagnating and not interesting anymore. H/D are an exception to that but I just think they have some limitations as well.

 

[lauravvv]

Yeah I fear they'll get lost in the crowd of pleasing but uninspired teams with this move. I am not sure why they didn't look for another coach, although they probably have thought it through.

I am not as pessimistic as you, that's why I wrote merely that I don't know. Also, most of the Gadbois top teams are not just "pleasing but uninspired" to me. Definitely not P/C, V/M, H/D and F-B/S. The rest of them, perhaps, although Soucisse/Firus's last FD was really enjoyable and very well choreographed. But with Virtue/Moir gone, Chock/Bates will be one of their top teams now, so perhaps they will get better material than, say, Lauriault/Le Gack or Smart/Diaz (whose SD, by the way, was wonderful).

Agree. I am kind of ready for all top three US teams to retire. I want to see young teams more.

Hubbell/Donohue have had just one season at the top - the previous two were really close, but not quite there. And they lost out on the Olympic bronze. So it's really understandable that they want to stay until the next Olympics. As for Shibutanis, they may not return after the next season, but if they will that's also kind of understandable. They just found their style and voice a few seasons ago, but I can see them wanting to experiment with a new style. And perhaps they will want to try for another Worlds silver and also a silver at the next Olympics.

I would say that is a decision for the athlete to make.....

to the whole post, humbaba.

 

[TontoK]

Agree. I am kind of ready for all top three US teams to retire. I want to see young teams more.

I've always been of the opinion that if young teams want to move up, then they should work their butts off to earn it.

That said, I've grown a bit bored with the current crop of top US ice dancers, except for H/D. I think they are just hitting their peak. Although, I warmed up to C/B more last year than I had in a long time.

The rising US team I'm most interested in tracking now are the Parsons.

 

[Garry12]

I've always been of the opinion that if young teams want to move up, then they should work their butts off to earn it.

That said, I've grown a bit bored with the current crop of top US ice dancers, except for H/D. I think they are just hitting their peak. Although, I warmed up to C/B more last year than I had in a long time.

The rising US team I'm most interested in tracking now are the Parsons.

I like Parsons. They have amazing technical skills and power. They do also have downside and not that pleasing visually. I personally think Greens might have a higher potential. They need 2-3 years to mature though.

 

[Sai Bon]

I like Parsons. They have amazing technical skills and power. They do also have downside and not that pleasing visually. I personally think Greens might have a higher potential. They need 2-3 years to mature though.

Tonto and Garry, can you explain in a bit more detail why you are excited about the Parsons, and what you see as their limitations?