Daniel Grassl back in Italy

[4everchan]

I agree with that... But then he should be reprimand for not sending his 'location' the first time when they tried to reach him... Why at all sending officials in Italy 3 times when he couldn't possibly be both in Russia and Italy simultaneously... They could just say he wasn't on the right address 10 times or 100 times or zillion times when they wanted to test him and that by not even trying to reach him, and cut the crap of the whole procedure...

that's the point we are trying to convey : when the first failure happens, there are notifications sent to the athletes and their fed... so, to get to 3, it requires severe negligence from the athlete.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

that's the point we are trying to convey : when the first failure happens, there are notifications sent to the athletes and their fed... so, to get to 3, it requires severe negligence

Notifications sent where, to his address in Italy again, Italy skating federations, to him and his training camp ?

 

[el henry]

I agree with that... But then he should be reprimand for not sending his 'location' the first time when they tried to reach him... Why at all sending officials in Italy 3 times when he couldn't possibly be both in Russia and Italy simultaneously... They could just say he wasn't on the right address 10 times or 100 times when we wanted to test him by not even trying to reach him, and cut the crap of the whole procedure...

But this is philosophical, not practical.

1. Philosophical:

You may or may not agree with the procedure that an athlete must notify the anti-doping authorities. I may or may not agree that it is necessary to file a zoning permit for work on my house.

2. Factual

It is the athlete's responsibility to notify authorities of his location. It is my responsibility to file for the permit. It is not the zoning authorities' responsibility to say, Oh look here, we see you are doing work on your house, get a permit.

I don't get a warning "Oops, you forgot to file the permit". I get a fine.

I don't care to argue the philosophical, that is not relevantto what actually happened and what is actually required.

 

[el henry]

Notifications sent where, to his address in Italy again, Italy skating federations, to him and his training camp ?

Where the athlete tells them to send the notices.

 

[4everchan]

Notifications sent where, to his address in Italy again, Italy skating federations, to him and his training camp ?

it's an online program.. It's called ADAMS. look it up. Online means everywhere you know?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

But this is philosophical, not practical.

1. Philosophical:

You may or may not agree with the procedure that an athlete must notify the anti-doping authorities. I may or may not agree that it is necessary to file a zoning permit for work on my house.

2. Factual

It is the athlete's responsibility to notify authorities of his location. It is my responsibility to file for the permit. It is not the zoning authorities' responsibility to say, Oh look here, we see you are doing work on your house, get a permit.

I don't get a warning "Oops, you forgot to file the permit". I get a fine.

I don't care to argue the philosophical, that is not relevantto what actually happened and what is actually required.

Correct. But if it is something required from athletes, that doesn't necessarily mean it is a 'totally right' procedure and it couldn't change for 'the better'.

 

[4everchan]

Correct. But if it is something required from athletes, that doesn't necessarily mean it is a good procedure and it shouldn't change for the better.

again, look it up. It's pretty straightforward. Very simple to provide whereabouts for athletes nowadays.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

again, look it up. It's pretty straightforward. Very simple to provide whereabouts for athletes nowadays.

Yes, and for not providing whereabouts he should be punished. But to go to the standard procedure of trying to take a test when you know for the fact that athlete couldn't be there, is what i'm calling stupid in this situation. It is not like they were trying to reach Christian Coleman 3 times and he was in USA or at the competition at least one time from those 3. Daniel Grassll couldn't physically be in Italy to be even possibly tested there.

 

[el henry]

Correct. But if it is something required from athletes, that doesn't necessarily mean it is a 'totally right' procedure and it couldn't change for 'the better'.

True. But that is getting away from the topic "Daniel Grassl returns to Italy", and the facts of what happened in Daniel's case.

Yes, and for not providing whereabouts should be punished. But to go to the standard procedure of trying to take a test when you know for the fact that athlete couldn't be possibly there, is what i'm calling stupid in this situation.

But you don't know that. That is speculation, as though the whole wide sporting world cares where Daniel Grassl trains and/or has the time or inclination to look it up.

They don't and they don't. Therefore, not stupid.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

I agree it is very odd that this is only reported by Russian media. On the other hand, wouldn't the Italian Fed or Daniel's team have issued a statement by now if the allegations were fabricated?
Everyone, including his former Russian coaching team, is looking really bad here. Why not clear it up asap if it was a misunderstanding/misreporting?

 

[throw_triple_flip]

So, there's been no official statement about this from Italy's anti doping people, am I correct?
Are the sources for this story decent? Could the entire thing be made up or is there likely to be anything in it?

(It's really hard to get any sense out of the celebratory/vitriolic posts about this on reddit or twitter).

Quote Reply
Report •••

 

[el henry]

I agree it is very odd that this is only reported by Russian media. On the other hand, wouldn't the Italian Fed or Daniel's team have issued a statement by now if the allegations were fabricated?
Everyone, including his former Russian coaching team, is looking really bad here. Why not clear it up asap if it was a misunderstanding/misreporting?

Daniel did say "The news isn't true" but I would like to hear something from the anti-doping authorities.

It could be true, it could not be true, It's so hard to tell

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Daniel did say "The news isn't true" but I would like to hear something from the anti-doping authorities.

Exactly, Daniel's statement raised more questions than answers.

 

[icewhite]

Yes, and for not providing whereabouts should be punished. But to go to the standard procedure of trying to take a test when you know for the fact that athlete couldn't be possibly there, is what i'm calling stupid in this situation. It is not like they were trying to reach Christian Coleman 3 times and he was in USA or at the competition at least one time from those 3. Daniel Grassll couldn't physically be in Italy to be even possibly tested there.

As far as I know we have no idea about the circumstances at all. We just had the information that he missed the test 3 times. We don't know when and we don't know where he should have been and where he was.
You are assuming he was in Russia while they were looking in Italy. But he might as well have been in Russia, just, let's say not at home but at a party on the other side of the city. (I doubt it, but just as an example.) They will not wait for you for two hours, because that would give the athlete the possibility to get rid of whatever substance they might just have taken by using laxatives or such. So you really have to be where you said you would be.
We don't have any context.

 

[icewhite]

Okay, so far I thought it be a source on the quiet, speaking off the record, because there is no official statement from the Italian agency.
But then I just let my translator do the work again, since I don't speak any Russian, and the article says it was a spokesperson saying that. Now that is just definitely not true.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Yes, and for not providing whereabouts should be punished. But to go to the standard procedure of trying to take a test when you know for the fact that athlete couldn't be possibly there, is what i'm calling stupid in this situation.

After the first whereabouts failure, it would not be unreasonable to think that the athlete simply went on holiday or a competition they didn't plan to go to (as a last-minute substitute for example) and just forgot to update their information and will come back to this location and the provided daily plans soon.

And if an athlete fails to update their information even after a warning you want to "reward" them by no longer sending anyone to test them at the location their official paperwork claims them to be at and sending doping officers to a location the athlete might be based on something they posted on social media? By that logic, any athlete who wanted to dope could just miss a test and publicly claim they are training somewhere else, all while they are taking their drugs and training exactly where they were before, evading any testing.

Either way, anyone who gets a warning for a whereabouts failure and does not adjust their behaviour (updating their information, making sure to be at the provided location during their daily 60 min testing range, ...) maybe deserves to end up with 3 whereabouts failures and a ban, because clearly, a reprimand is not enough for them to understand the severity of the situation and learn from their mistakes (or they are actually trying to hide something, in which case they also definitely should be banned).

All of this is regardless of if Grassl is actually in this situation and also goes for someone like Alexandra Agiurgiuculese, who might be one of my favourite Italian rhythmic gymnasts and a reportedly very kind person, but also apparently rather simple-minded and careless to miss three tests, and, as sad as it is, deserves that she is currently banned and will miss the Paris Olympics.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

And if an athlete fails to update their information even after a warning you want to "reward" them by no longer sending anyone to test them at the location their official paperwork claims them to be at and sending doping officers to a location the athlete might be based on something they posted on social media? By that logic, any athlete who wanted to dope could just miss a test and publicly claim they are training somewhere else, all while they are taking their drugs and training exactly where they were before, all while evading any testing.

Either way, anyone who gets a warning for a whereabouts failure and does not adjust their behaviour (updating their information, making sure to be at the provided location during their daily 60 min testing range, ...) maybe deserves to end up with 3 whereabouts failures and a ban, because clearly, a reprimand is not enough for them to understand the severity of the situation and learn from their mistakes (or they are actually trying to hide something, in which case they also definitely should be banned).

We for the fact knew where Daniel was, his ISU bio, his Wiki, his social accounts are saying that. He was not hiding from the world not letting WADA knowing where he is.. And i just don't agree that 'punishment' is a correct step in every 'rule' athletes are dealing wrongly with and it shouldn't be equally for all. Cause all the athletes are not in the same situation/environment/possibilities to deal with the things equally which is evident in Daniel's case... I'm just saying that, by also agreeing with majority of points you and the others made...

 

[angelatlantis14]

So far, we do not even know if indeed there WAS a failed test (or 3 or a gadzillion)
We do not have:
- An official statement by NADO Italia
- an official statement by the Italian Figure Skating Federation
- an official statement by Daniel Grassl or his team.

All that we have and that is being discussed in 6+ pages here is a single statement by one russian news outlet, alleging to quote NADO Italia. NADO Italia had so far neither confirmed nor denied that statement, so it may be true or untrue, we simply do not know.
So why not wait for these statements before arguing about the details of the case?

 

[icewhite]

So far, we do not even know if indeed there WAS a failed test (or 3 or a gadzillion)
We do not have:
- An official statement by NODA Italia
- an official statement by the Italian Figure Skating Federation
- an official statement by Daniel Grassl or his team.

All that we have and that is being discussed in 6+ pages here is a single statement by one russian news outlet, alleging to quote NODA Italia. NODA Italia had so far neither confirmed nor denied that statement, so it may be true or untrue, we simply do not know.
So why not wait for these statements before arguing about the details of the case?

Well, Grassl has put out a statement - not super official, but official enough I think.
And the NADO, it seems, won't come out with a statement, either never or at least not before the verdict.
So... I think if there is such a report it is fair to talk about it. Because such a verdict can take many months. In my eyes it would be weird to just ignore the elephant in the possibly upcoming competitions.
However, at this point it all seems very fishy either way.

 

[JimR]

Yes, and for not providing whereabouts he should be punished. But to go to the standard procedure of trying to take a test when you know for the fact that athlete couldn't be there, is what i'm calling stupid in this situation. It is not like they were trying to reach Christian Coleman 3 times and he was in USA or at the competition at least one time from those 3. Daniel Grassll couldn't physically be in Italy to be even possibly tested there.

If he had been still based in Italy throughout I would assume he had been negligent, but given the difficulties of Italian doping officials going to Russia, potential miscommunication/language barrier with RUSADA and Grassl (I think he said he speaks no Russian at all and it was quite a culture shock, maybe he receives all his communication from them in Russian), maybe something as silly as he didn't reconfigure settings on the app correctly (it was in Russian or it was set to Italian time still I don't know).

It seems like his federation or WADA did him no favours at all.