Disaster for Johnny Weir

[dr.frog]

A little bit OT, but is there some kind of rule that says a skater must sit in the Kiss and Cry to receive his marks?

No. I think the whole kiss-and-cry business is pretty much a TV invention. In the "old days", the protocol used to be for skaters to stand on the ice near the exit, facing the judges, while their marks were read. You still see skaters do that sometimes at regionals and sectionals. Nowadays, with CoP they might as well dispense with the whole rigamarole of reading the scores because they're so meaningless.

Anyway, at past events I have seen some skaters who were upset after a bad performance simply walk directly backstage when they were done, without waiting for their marks. I've also seen some of them come back out again after taking a minute to compose themselves in private. FWIW, I don't think there was anything particularly unseemly about Johnny crying in the K&C, either. They wouldn't call it the K&C if it weren't fairly common for skaters to cry there.

 

[tristan1]

The Russian incident happened almost 3 years ago..come on now Dr Frog! The US team travels with a doctor who Im sure examined Johnny in Russia and also had a hand in the decision....he is a tough skater and since that year he has more than proven himself quite nicely I might add. And were you aware that he was off the ice that year ((2002)) from May to the end of September with a stress fracture in his shin,, but wait is that because he is mentally not tough also !!! Johnny has always been straight forward about why something has gone wrong for him,,at least there has never been the excuse of bad boots, bad blades, body alignment or some of the other excuses that have been used by others,,,or are you just a Johnny basher and nothing he would do would please you or some of the others posting here. To drag up something from 3 years ago,,,,its stupid!!

 

[Kasey]

Going to the restroom is natural too, but I don't want anyone to see me there. Not because I'm ashamed, but just because it's private. Crying is the same thing.

Right now, you're my hero! :agree:

 

[Piel]

Apparently the Russian federation was upset I didn't compete and wanted Russian doctors to check on me, so I stayed hidden"

Is it common practice for another federation's doctors to examine a skater outside of an emergency situattion?

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for joining us, Tristan1. Welcome to the forum!

Mathman

 

[dr.frog]

The Russian incident happened almost 3 years ago..come on now Dr Frog! The US team travels with a doctor who Im sure examined Johnny in Russia and also had a hand in the decision....he is a tough skater and since that year he has more than proven himself quite nicely I might add. And were you aware that he was off the ice that year ((2002)) from May to the end of September with a stress fracture in his shin,, but wait is that because he is mentally not tough also !!! Johnny has always been straight forward about why something has gone wrong for him,,at least there has never been the excuse of bad boots, bad blades, body alignment or some of the other excuses that have been used by others,,,or are you just a Johnny basher and nothing he would do would please you or some of the others posting here. To drag up something from 3 years ago,,,,its stupid!!

Well, the incident with him giving up in the middle of his Nationals free skate also happened almost 3 years ago -- but other people seem to have no problems with bringing that up in the context of why he didn't just stop and withdraw at Skate Canada. I've been following Johnny's skating since he was a novice, so yes, I was well aware that he was injured earlier that season. No, I am not "just a Johnny basher". There are many good qualities about his skating that I like, but OTOH I am not so blinded by fandom that there aren't things I don't like, or that I can't see that there are things holding him back from being as good as he could be.

BTW, US skaters at international events don't always travel with a team doctor, and I don't think there was one at this particular event since Johnny made no mention of a team doctor being consulted or involved in his decision to withdraw.

 

[mmscfdcsu]

Well, the incident with him giving up in the middle of his Nationals free skate also happened almost 3 years ago -- but other people seem to have no problems with bringing that up in the context of why he didn't just stop and withdraw at Skate Canada. .

Giving up in 2003? Did you see that fall on the second triple axel? How do you continue after that? Anyway, I know that 2003 motivated Johnny and he had a kick a$$ 2004. I expect great things from him during the rest of this season. I think the bad start is going to make him focus and produce a winning season.

 

[tristan1]

Dr Frog
I believe the only time the US travels with out a doctor is in Canada. But Im more than sure they have a doctor with them in Russia...Im not blinded by stardom either and I know how good Johnny can be but what happened three ago happened three years ago,,,people need to let it go and move on. Find another skater that withdrew from something 3 years ago and discuss them, Im sure there were plenty

 

[dr.frog]

Giving up in 2003? Did you see that fall on the second triple axel? How do you continue after that?

Yes, of course I saw it -- I was there in Dallas! I've seen *many* skaters take horrendous falls on jumps but still continue to complete their programs. But in Dallas, Johnny looked like he wanted to quit even before he started to skate. You could see that "look of terror" so many skaters get in his face.

 

[dr.frog]

I believe the only time the US travels with out a doctor is in Canada.

This is not correct. For example, you can view the USFSA team staff for the rest of the season here. No team physician is being sent to Golden Spin or the France GP this year, either (and this list doesn't include the JGP or other senior internationals which have already taken place).

http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/selections.pdf

 

[Dee4707]

When Michelle skates I am too nervous to watch! I have to trick myself by hiding around the corner and peeking out at the TV set.

MM

Math, thanks for the laugh in this thread.

For some reason it seems like Johnny is being picked on like we all pick on little Sasha. I'm just happy he wasn't hurt more than he was. I have no idea why he kept on skating, I have no idea why he cried and I have no idea why he even took his skate off. Guess that makes me not a mind reader.

Dee

 

[WeirsAngel]

Yes, of course I saw it -- I was there in Dallas! I've seen *many* skaters take horrendous falls on jumps but still continue to complete their programs. But in Dallas, Johnny looked like he wanted to quit even before he started to skate. You could see that "look of terror" so many skaters get in his face.

How could you see that? What do you mean with "look of terror"? I must say that I don't really belive you when you say you could see how he felt when you were sitting about 50 from him or whatever.

 

[K-Mo]

I wouldn't say the men's field is boring now, but a few years ago, I would agree that it was. I'm actually really looking forward to the showdown between all of them.

I can't decide if I applaud Johnny for finishing, or if I think he should have stopped. On one hand, he earns my respect for fighting through the pain, but on the other hand, he could have made it worse...

In any case, I think Johnny just wants to assert that he's a fighter, and that he's got his game face on. I hope he comes back from this.

 

[euterpe]

2003 Natiionals was Weir's THIRD trip there. He was 6th in 2001 and went on to win Junior Worlds that year, beating Evan Lysacek. He got two GP assignments in the fall of 2001, and finished 7th at Skate Canada and 4th at Lalique. He was 5th at 2002 Nationals and finished a respectable 4th at 4 Continents. During the summer of 2002, he was diagnosed with a stress fracture in his shin and had to stay off the ice until mid-autumn. He was scheduled to do two GPs back to back, CoR and NHK, but he became ill while in Russia and withdrew from both events.

At 2003 Nationals, Johnny was 2nd after the SP. He probably was nervous, but that is perfectly understandable. At the start of the FS, he was hurt, and hurt badly, so he withdrew. That made perfect sense at the time, since he was wary of re-injuring his shin. But of course, not placing at Nationals put him in bad stead with the USFS especially since he had withdrawn from his two GP assignments.

He got no GP assignments for the fall of 2003-2004, but did get a B International, Finlandia, where he won the silver medal. He went on to finish 1st at Eastern Sectionals and then won his first US Championship in 2004 and finish 5th at his first World Championship. He went on to win 3 GP medals, two golds and a silver, but had to drop out of the GPF due to a foot injury. He successfully defended his US championship in 2005, and finished 4th at Worlds despite a flareup of t6he foot injury.

I don't understand all the negativity. Johnny had one bad year out of many successful years, but it seems people only want to focus on that one bad one.
Johnny himself seems determined to put it out of his thoughts, but the anti-Weirs seem just as determined to keep it in the forefront.

I would just like to offer the big picture so people who don't know the story can get some perspective.

 

[mmscfdcsu]

I would just like to offer the big picture so people who don't know the story can get some perspective.

Thank you!

 

[BronzeisGolden]

For some reason it seems like Johnny is being picked on like we all pick on little Sasha. I'm just happy he wasn't hurt more than he was. I have no idea why he kept on skating, I have no idea why he cried and I have no idea why he even took his skate off. Guess that makes me not a mind reader.

I feel you on that one, Dee. Everyone is different. I don't see why Johnny is being judged so harshly. So...he cries! It just so happens he did it AFTER a major meltdown on the international world stage. If you aren't comfortable with publics displays of emotion.......DON'T WATCH! And, yes, Johnny is very outspoken, but he is also very honest about his own skating. He will be the first to admit that he is skating badly. I respect that immensely. As for 2003.........it is now 2005! Let it go. Johnny is a two-time National Champion and has gained the U.S. men's division much respect worldwide with his artistic, pleasing style. Give him a break! I didn't hear anyone complaining last year when all was going well. I say, lets stand behind our champions and not bash them endlessly for having rough patches in their lives and careers. He is doing his best. That is all that can be expected of anyone.

 

[dr.frog]

I don't understand all the negativity. Johnny had one bad year out of many successful years, but it seems people only want to focus on that one bad one.

I would just like to offer the big picture so people who don't know the story can get some perspective.

Well, looking at the even bigger picture, you forgot to mention Weir's meltdown in the free skate in the junior men's event at 2000 Nationals (when he dropped all the way from 1st after the short to 5th overall and Evan Lysacek ended up winning the title). In general, Weir was kind of spotty as a junior competitor, and as someone who saw him compete regularly back then, it was obvious he was having "head case" issues with his triple axel in competition at the time. He was landing them consistently in practice for quite a while before he managed to get one in competition, and then his mental block about it disappeared.

 

[merrywidow]

Give over, Dr. Frog. Johnny was 16 when he had the "meltdown" that you refer to at Jr. Nationals. He only learned to skate at the age of 12. At 14 he was the bronze medalist at Novice Nationals. He has actually had a meteoric rise through the elite figure skating ranks in the 9 years since he first laced on a pair of skates. Give credit where it is due.

 

[dr.frog]

Give over, Dr. Frog. Johnny was 16 when he had the "meltdown" that you refer to at Jr. Nationals. He only learned to skate at the age of 12. At 14 he was the bronze medalist at Novice Nationals. He has actually had a meteoric rise through the elite figure skating ranks in the 9 years since he first laced on a pair of skates. Give credit where it is due.

Hey, like I said, I've been watching Johnny skate for *years* now -- you don't have to tell *me* about his past history. He is obviously very talented, and I haven't been trying to dispute that in any way. It just seems that some people don't want to be reminded that he's had some problems with inconsistency, nerves, mental blocks, off-ice distractions, or whatever over the years. I had hoped that he'd gotten over that by now, but after the start he's had to this season, I'm worried the ghosts are still there screwing up his brain. In particular, it's a bad sign he's having so many problems with his triple axel again after the fits it gave him in the past. It's a beautiful jump for him when he does land it.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

I agree with the original poster. I feel bad that he injured himself, but his comments have always left me cold. I disagree with everyone who says his remarks are "honest" and "candid" Everything he says sounds totally fake to me. He seems to say things just to make people look at him a certain way. He thrives on standing out from the crowd and will say anything to make it seem that way. I don't feel any honesty in his words.